I really wish I believed

Lintu said:

I don't think I believe in God anymore, but I really wish I could. I particularly wish I could believe in an afterlife. I find death extremely scary now that I don't

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Hi Lintu!

I reacted much the same way as some of the members here; I thought why be afraid of something of which you are not going to be aware of ? I can understand being frightened of the pain of dying, but, if you believe that there is no afterlife, I can't see what there is to be concerned about.

Lintu said:

Yes, I was once a believer. But then once I started believing that it wasn't possible for one religion to be right (at the exclusion of others), most of the theologies started to fall apart. (If that makes any sense). And it just started seeming to me that God was invented over and over again by different groups of people, sometimes for good purposes and sometimes for bad. So then God became less of the humanlike father and more like an underlying spirit. I still believe there could be an underlying unifying spirit, but not a God that comforts and punishes and leads us all into an ultimate goal.

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I can understand what you are feeling; it is tempting (or maybe logical) to think what you are thinking.

My way of looking at it though is not to be overly concerned about what others believe; I am open to anything, but at the end of the day what is right for me is 'right'.

The other belief I have is that all paths lead to 'God'; if you think about the fact that Religion must have been 'exported' to various parts of the world and, (as in Chinese whispers), the message became distorted as it travelled, it is hardly surprising that there is a plethora of confusing thought out there.

It seems to me that it is easy to become side-tracked in this rushed material world. If you can, take time out and go somewhere quiet and 'commune with Nature' - to me that is the essential 'grounding' mechanism. See if that brings anything.

michel said:

Hi Lintu!

I reacted much the same way as some of the members here; I thought why be afraid of something of which you are not going to be aware of ? I can understand being frightened of the pain of dying, but, if you believe that there is no afterlife, I can't see what there is to be concerned about.

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I definitely think it is fear and sadness, then. Or maybe selfishness, to want to have the people you love always around for you to love!

My way of looking at it though is not to be overly concerned about what others believe; I am open to anything, but at the end of the day what is right for me is 'right'.

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Absolutely makes sense, and that's how I felt for awhile (and still do feel--whatever fulfills you spiritually and helps you live life the best way you can is right). I think some of us just need more structure in life, more guidance. Kind of a "reason to be" or a purpose. My husband attended Catholic schools his whole life, and he said he was always told the purpose of life was to love God and do his will. I think that's pretty powerful and meaningful to a lot of people, hence why I wish I could have that kind of faith.

Lintu congraduations on your marriage!!! You were still engaged when you left RF last time. Also, if you find God or don't find God, you don't need any God(s) to construct a system of morality. Don't worry about the God thing too much and don't be in a hurry to figure out of there is one or isn't one. Use judical restraint in interacting with your mother. Being a bible-belter like you I can tell you there is great wisdom in picking and choosing your battles. You got the best vantage point so you make the call but think it through first. Telling them your religious views sometimes is a wise decision and sometimes it is not.

Since you obviously got a lot of muddle in your head right now about God I am overtly hoping you will throw your muddle to the wolves in the relgious debate section!!!

robtex said:

Lintu congraduations on your marriage!!! You were still engaged when you left RF last time. Also, if you find God or don't find God, you don't need any God(s) to construct a system of morality. Don't worry about the God thing too much and don't be in a hurry to figure out of there is one or isn't one. Use judical restraint in interacting with your mother. Being a bible-belter like you I can tell you there is great wisdom in picking and choosing your battles. You got the best vantage point so you make the call but think it through first. Telling them your religious views sometimes is a wise decision and sometimes it is not.

Since you obviously got a lot of muddle in your head right now about God I am overtly hoping you will throw your muddle to the wolves in the relgious debate section!!!

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Oh thanks! Yeah, we got married about 2.5 months ago

I definitely understand that God isn't necessary for morality, but I'm a "play by the rules" kind of girl. I like it when rules are set by an outside source.

Then again, if I were living in a strictly religious area, I'd probably hate the rules and want out ASAP

Pick your battles is right...I don't talk anything controversial with my mom anymore. That's what my dad is for!

Lintu not a good reason for believing in God but to give you an alternative incase you need it one day.....oh and there is secular judiasm too. I don't know so much about it though.

http://www.secularhumanism.org/
http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=main&page=what

Yes, I was once a believer. But then once I started believing that it wasn't possible for one religion to be right (at the exclusion of others), most of the theologies started to fall apart. (If that makes any sense). And it just started seeming to me that God was invented over and over again by different groups of people, sometimes for good purposes and sometimes for bad. So then God became less of the humanlike father and more like an underlying spirit. I still believe there could be an underlying unifying spirit, but not a God that comforts and punishes and leads us all into an ultimate goal.

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This most definitely makes sense!!!!! The Philosophy that "truth is relative", which is what you have basically explained, is so contradictive to theistic christian theology, and I might add judaism to that catagory, that I experienced absolutely no suprise at all that you claimed this to be the origin of the conflicts you have stated in the OP. I would love to have a discussion with you over this philosophy but don't know if this would be the right thread to do so.

As far as the "afterlife" goes, Hank Hanengraaff, president of the Christian Research Institute, wrote an interesting book about it titled "Resurrection" which I would recommend as a good read about the subject. The only negative criticism I have seen about the book is that it consists, almost entirely, of borrowed material from other apologists which I found to be true, but non-the-less is still a good book and might spark further research into the subject matter.

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria

SoliDeoGloria said:

This most definitely makes sense!!!!! The Philosophy that "truth is relative", which is what you have basically explained, is so contradictive to theistic christian theology, and I might add judaism to that catagory, that I experienced absolutely no suprise at all that you claimed this to be the origin of the conflicts you have stated in the OP. I would love to have a discussion with you over this philosophy but don't know if this would be the right thread to do so.

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Well I'm definitely up for that, wherever the correct place is to discuss!

Well I'm definitely up for that, wherever the correct place is to discuss!

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Well, would you like a strictly one on one discussion or would you like others to get involved, where it could very possibly get a bit ugly?

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria

SoliDeoGloria said:

Well, would you like a strictly one on one discussion or would you like others to get involved, where it could very possibly get a bit ugly?

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria

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I don't mind if other people get involved. I don't get insulted too easily when it comes to religion. However, I have found it can be very frustrating once it gets into a debate, since it can't be proven (of course).

I don't mind if other people get involved. I don't get insulted too easily when it comes to religion. However, I have found it can be very frustrating once it gets into a debate, since it can't be proven (of course).

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Well, don't get your hopes up too much for it not to turn into a debate. I'll try to get something started in "general rligious debates" titled "right & religion". I'll do my best to be nice. I probably won't be able to continue it too far due to the fact that my wife and I are celebrating our ten year anniversary tonight but will add to it when possible.

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria

SoliDeoGloria said:

Well, don't get your hopes up too much for it not to turn into a debate. I'll try to get something started in "general rligious debates" titled "right & religion". I'll do my best to be nice. I probably won't be able to continue it too far due to the fact that my wife and I are celebrating our ten year anniversary tonight but will add to it when possible.

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria

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Oh congrats to you and your wife!

Oh congrats to you and your wife!

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Thanks. Our actual anniversary is thurs. but we are celebreating tonight.

BTW, here's the proposed thread: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35177

Sincerely,
SolideoGloria

Super Universe said:

"The Lake?" And where would this lake be?

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Um . . . . I don't exactly know.

Revelation seems to put it as some soldering barbeque pit somewhere in heaven for everyone to see. Most think the lake is, "down there" under the ground. I've learned that there is a difference between "hell" and the "lake". Hell is "the grave" or the place of the dead. "The Lake" is the place of punishment, according to fundamentalist christian doctrine.

Super Universe, what you're saying sounds good to me. But, I have trouble with it because of what I've been taught all my life. I'm not saying your wrong, your perspective is just a very different world than I'm used to. I've never let my mind go there until lately. It takes getting used to. But, I will think on your comments.

To Lintu: I've heard that religious jewish leaders have said that the longest someone experiences punishment is for a few years -- seven at the most. But, because the teachings of Jesus are basically balasphemous in the eyes of jewish doctrien, some Rabbi in the past have wished 40 years of punishment upon Jesus. Of course, this isn't all jews, It's just something I heard. But, doesn't that speak to the idea that Christianity and Judaism don't really seem to "mix" sometimes. Just a thought.

congrats on the marriage. marriage could use it's own forum!

Almost ten years now.

I'm a few moments away from a week vacation out of town. so, by the time I get to post again, this thead will probably be forgotten. Take it easy everyone!

Death is no different than birth. It is just a passing of the spirit from one form to another. When a lightbulb breaks, the electricity does not just disappear, even though you can no longer see it's effects. If you are questioning your faith, then there is really nothing any one could 'say' to make you feel different. This is a personal experience and only you can work through it. God understands completely why you have doubts and concerns and fears, and he is just waiting for you to see that there is nothing to be afraid of. Fear is actually your enemy, not death.

This thread made me think of a song, and I want to share with you the lyrics, all who know this one, sing along . . . .

thats a beautiful song..uhmm who sings it? how is it called? =)

Just curious why do you think you know longer believe? If you said you want to believe in it then why not? I was in the same predicament not too long ago. I will talk if you want, just pm me.

Lintu said:

I don't think I believe in God anymore, but I really wish I could. I particularly wish I could believe in an afterlife. I find death extremely scary now that I don't

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you shouldnt let this upset you take it in an alternative view , this could be enlightenment, you have come to a point in your life where death has reafirmed your mortality use it to enjoy life ,see how lucky you are ,worry about an afterlife, after life , its your turn to live,

caminante said:

thats a beautiful song..uhmm who sings it? how is it called? =)

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Williams Don-I Believe in You. It's a nice, slow country song from 1980. You can listen to clips at Amazon.com.

I would like to attempt to introduce you to God on a very personal level. Once you are aware of the connection, you can practice getting and staying 'in tune' with it. If you wanna.

Now I'm going to make this as simple as possible. It reminds me of trying to get my four year old to focus on the plane that is way up in the sky. Sometimes it takes her a really long time to spot it, but once she does, the excitement is so sweet. We also must keep the heart of a child. Finding life to be awe inspiring, even if we can label and explain how nature works, you must still learn to focus on the beauty of it all. Beauty is a connection to God, the feeling you get when you see something 'beautiful' is the Holy Spirit filling your heart, and this is one way to be 'aware' of God's presence.

Beauty is a very easy one to tap into, but not a very strong one, because beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so this connection is very weak and subject to one's own preferences. There are other connections like the roots of a tree: compassion, empathy, charitable giving, etc.

The most powerful connection is love, and even more so, unconditional love. Now I want to point out that I believe that our emotions are to our spiritual connection, as a thermometer is to temperature. The feeling you get when you are in love, "on cloud nine" 'butterflies in the stomache', 'skin tingling' feeling you get is being connected to God. God is Love, so God is that feeling ALL THE TIME. And we are connected to him when we feel this. I have been told that an orgasm is an open window to Heaven. That euphoric feeling is 'love', in the spiritual sense of the word. It is your spirit vibrating at a higher level (closer to God, as opposed to a lower level-negative feelings). Now this feeling does not just come from sex. A mother gets this feeling when she gives birth, or watches her child accomplish something for the first time. A teacher gets this feeling when they see the lights come on in their students heads. An artist gets this through there craft. These are connections to God, whether you believe that or not, will not change the fact that it is true. All you have to do is RECOGNIZE. BE AWARE. Once you start being aware of these connections, you can start to bring them on at will, instead of by chance. When I want to feel that tingly feeling, I just relive a moment from my memory that made me feel that way. I can do this while I'm stuck in traffic, or waiting in line at the grocery store.

Once you get 'in tune' miracles will start happening in your life. Meaningful coincedences, and synchronistic events will come more and more often, and you will start being led by the spirit, if you choose, because it is still up to you to resist fear, and anger, and ego. Over and over, you must be the one to maintain the connection. Like a radio station, God is always there, but we can only hear it if we are 'tuned in to' the right frequency. And that frequency is LOVE. Love your neighbor, your enemy, your parents, your children, your job, your life, your circumstance.

there is a book you really ought to read... "stalking the divine" by kristin ohlson.

it's about faith- it tells the story of a small community of catholic nuns, and the woman who comes to love them. it's about wrestling with faith, struggling for faith, and finding faith. a very good book.

actually, to live just to die at last
is not only scary
it is horrible

a life with no aim
I don't consider it a life at all

and u don't even know when death will come to u

some one has said that u will not be scared at death because , u were not scared before ur birth

but what I am saying to u
if some power gave u life
and made u a living human being, when u was nothing mentioned before

so why couldn't this power gave u life again, after ur death

I suppose it would be much easier than the original time

My, brother
to believe, is not something difficult as u think
just use ur mind
keep searching for the right path
and the true purpose of this life
and ask god to guide ur heart to it

if u did so,
I am sure that he will never let u down

and when the truth comes to ur heart , u will never doubt what u feel in ur heart