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Male Chauvinism in the Arab World, and the Myth of the Constant "Moderate Majority"

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
One of the most poignant articles I have read about patriarchal attitudes in the Arab world and the pervasiveness of male chauvinism in the Arab region.

For a very brief glimpse into the data cited in the article:

20170506_MAC397.png

From the article said:
In such an atmosphere, violence and harassment are common. In the four countries surveyed, 10% to 45% of men who have ever been married admitted to having beaten their wives. Between 31% and 64% of men admitted that they had harassed women in the street. Fewer than half of Moroccan men think marital rape should be criminalised; most expect their wives to have sex on demand. Some 70% of Egyptian men still approve of female genital mutilation (FGM).

Well over half of Egyptian women also say they approve of FGM. In fact, Arab women espouse many of the same views as men. In Egypt and Palestine, over half of men and women say that if a woman is raped, she should marry her rapist. In at least three of the countries, more women than men say that women who dress provocatively deserve to be harassed. Most of the women surveyed say they support the idea of male guardianship.

The article is absolutely well worth reading, in my opinion. It is one of few that I have seen paint a realistic picture as opposed to articles that brush aside such trends and perpetuate the myth that most Arabs in different Arab countries are ideologically "moderate."

Discuss.
 
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SabahTheLoner

Master of the Art of Couch Potato Cuddles
I'm disgusted by the view held by some that a woman should have to marry the very human who subjected her to sexual activity against her own will. I knew that many common views in these countries are corrupt, but some of these beliefs are simply atrocious. Despite my interest in Arab art and history, it saddens me how many of these countries hold hurtful perspectives.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
One of the most poignant articles I have read about patriarchal attitudes in the Arab world and the pervasiveness of male chauvinism in the Arab region.

For a very brief glimpse into the data cited in the article:

20170506_MAC397.png



The article is absolutely well worth reading, in my opinion. It is one of few that I have seen paint a realistic picture as opposed to articles that brush aside such trends and perpetuate the myth that most Arabs in different Arab countries are ideologically "moderate."

Discuss.

And do you really trust the report as if it's a scientific fact?
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
And do you really trust the report as if it's a scientific fact?

I trust the report as an accurate or almost entirely accurate reflection of the attitudes and beliefs common in the surveyed countries. Aside from observing such beliefs and attitudes first-hand as someone who has lived his entire life in the Arab world, the survey in the OP is not the first to find sexist beliefs in the Arab world: at least one other poll involving several Arab countries found the same:

Chapter 4: Women In Society

And while anecdotal evidence is not reliable (from the viewpoint of being methodical/authoritative) in isolation of everything else, it makes sense when it matches such findings. For example, literally all of my (Arab) female friends have told me that they face sexist comments ranging from condescending remarks about their gender to sexual harassment and derision of what they're wearing. That's in their everyday lives, too; it's not some rare event that happens every once in a while. Couple that with the fact that these things have happened (and happen) in middle- and upper-middle class parts of our country's capital and it should be easy to see why the survey results absolutely make sense.
 
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ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Socially desirable conditions and thoughts emerge out of struggle.
Women's struggle has been more or less stamped out in much of the arab world. Although there are a few voices which sound promising.
Though ironically Pakistan had a female prime minister before we had a female president. *sigh*

This is a highly discouraging study though.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Though ironically Pakistan had a female prime minister before we had a female president. *sigh*

This is a highly discouraging study though.
That has more to do with powerful families than it does with the woman making it from the ground up into the public eye. Without Ali Bhutto to pave the way we never would have heard about his daughter.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
This report doesn't really come as much of a surprise to me. I think it's likely a bit understated, to be honest. Similarly, it might be a dash of cold water on the liberal left to peg existing views about gays and gender identity. Yep, that ought to be heart-warming... :rolleyes:
 

Shia Islam

Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
Premium Member
One of the most poignant articles I have read about patriarchal attitudes in the Arab world and the pervasiveness of male chauvinism in the Arab region.

For a very brief glimpse into the data cited in the article:

20170506_MAC397.png



The article is absolutely well worth reading, in my opinion. It is one of few that I have seen paint a realistic picture as opposed to articles that brush aside such trends and perpetuate the myth that most Arabs in different Arab countries are ideologically "moderate."

Discuss.

I will write the following, although i may not respond to much of what will be written in response to my writing here..As i am too much busy nowadays..

Now..when it comes to understanding other societies sociologically, many people if not most fell in the trap of trying to understand the others from the lens of their own culture , sociological norms etc..

For instance, the image of the westerners in the eyes of the Muslims may be worse than the reality :) When Muslim people see the images of the Western girls and boys who are not married dancing together in the night clubs while many of them are drunk ...they think that there are no conservative people in West...

Similar..it is hard for the western people to understand the Muslims sociologically. Western people assumes that Muslims are forced to live according to the Islamic norms ...While whenever there is an election, Muslims choose the Islamic lifestyle...

Just go to any Muslim country in Friday...All the mosques are filled with the worshippers...

Muslims love their Islam..whether they are Men or Women...

And, when it comes to the rights of Women..You will be amazed to know how Islam favored women in many ways..

Many Mosques in the Islamic world were built by women..Why..Because in Islam it is the obligation of man to pay for the family...So the Wife has no obligation to spend on the Family..and All her money is for herself...She can keep her money in the bank..or do whatever she wants with it...that is why many mosques were built by women..

Then, Islam has put clear lines regarding to the rights and obligations of both the wife and the husband. If a man will mistreat his wife the law will be applied against him..

Then the Family Entity is very strong in the Islamic world..When a man wants to marry a woman..her family will ask about him and his behavior. And after the marriage the family of the wife will stand with her in case the marriage is needed to be ended..

That is way. Marriage rate is very high in the Islamic world. And divorce rate is vey low...

And Muslims have more Children :)

Also.. in Islam the mother is considered sacred..
where prophet Muhammad said: paradise is under the feet of the mothers..

Muslim women are happy with their lives!!!
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
That has more to do with powerful families than it does with the woman making it from the ground up into the public eye. Without Ali Bhutto to pave the way we never would have heard about his daughter.
I mean, we have a lot of that with powerful presidential families too, both Clinton's and Bush's. But I get your meaning. Most nations don't have a rags to riches story in politics, or even normal middle class Joes and Janes.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
I will write the following, although i may not respond to much of what will be written in response to my writing here..As i am too much busy nowadays..

Now..when it comes to understanding other societies sociologically, many people if not most fell in the trap of trying to understand the others from the lens of their own culture , sociological norms etc..

For instance, the image of the westerners in the eyes of the Muslims may be worse than the reality :) When Muslim people see the images of the Western girls and boys who are not married dancing together in the night clubs while many of them are drunk ...they think that there are no conservative people in West...

Similar..it is hard for the western people to understand the Muslims sociologically. Western people assumes that Muslims are forced to live according to the Islamic norms ...While whenever there is an election, Muslims choose the Islamic lifestyle...

Just go to any Muslim country in Friday...All the mosques are filled with the worshippers...

Muslims love their Islam..whether they are Men or Women...

And, when it comes to the rights of Women..You will be amazed to know how Islam favored women in many ways..

Many Mosques in the Islamic world were built by women..Why..Because in Islam it is the obligation of man to pay for the family...So the Wife has no obligation to spend on the Family..and All her money is for herself...She can keep her money in the bank..or do whatever she wants with it...that is why many mosques were built by women..

Then, Islam has put clear lines regarding to the rights and obligations of both the wife and the husband. If a man will mistreat his wife the law will be applied against him..

Then the Family Entity is very strong in the Islamic world..When a man wants to marry a woman..her family will ask about him and his behavior. And after the marriage the family of the wife will stand with her in case the marriage is needed to be ended..

That is way. Marriage rate is very high in the Islamic world. And divorce rate is vey low...

And Muslims have more Children :)

Also.. in Islam the mother is considered sacred..
where prophet Muhammad said: paradise is under the feet of the mothers..

Muslim women are happy with their lives!!!
If only that was true.
 

SabahTheLoner

Master of the Art of Couch Potato Cuddles
Anyone have an opinion about the fact that these "Arab Chauvinistic" beliefs correlate strongly to Islamic scripture?

Yes and no. There are passages in the Koran about when women can be beaten, but I think it's the encouragement of staying far way from foreign ideas that make people think it's okay. We might get a change in attitude in any society once they are subjected to globalization then exposed to it in the long-term. And besides, there are passages in the Bible about animal sacrifice to God; I would expect many Christians today to find that distasteful because they live in places where it's unnecessary and possibly even cruel depending on who you ask. I don't think all male Islam followers believe that just because a woman can be beaten doesn't mean she needs to be, and they may even find this treatment of women distasteful, especially if they grew up being entertained by Western ideas.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Anyone have an opinion about the fact that these "Arab Chauvinistic" beliefs correlate strongly to Islamic scripture?
When even the OT commands that a rape victim marry her rapist, I see no reason to separate scriptures when Christians build of the OT/Tanakh and Muslims build off the OT and NT.
Western people assumes that Muslims are forced to live according to the Islamic norms ...
Being executed for being gay or a woman being stoned for committing adultery, how is that not being forced to live in accordance with Islamic norms?
Then, Islam has put clear lines regarding to the rights and obligations of both the wife and the husband. If a man will mistreat his wife the law will be applied against him..
And yet this study suggests that a huge bulk of Muslim men from these places do not view marital rape as rape, and think they must protect and guard women. And approval of genital mutilation, be it done to infant boys or girls, is wrong.
Muslim women are happy with their lives!!!
Ever hear of Stockholm syndrome?
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
When even the OT commands that a rape victim marry her rapist, I see no reason to separate scriptures when Christians build of the OT/Tanakh and Muslims build off the OT and NT.

IMO, based on recent, large polls, MANY Muslims hold beliefs that are closely aligned with the clear messages in Islamic scripture. By contrast, very few Christians or Jews hold the OT so literally.

But I do agree that taken independently, all Abrahamic scripture is ghastly.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
I don't think all male Islam followers believe that just because a woman can be beaten doesn't mean she needs to be, and they may even find this treatment of women distasteful, especially if they grew up being entertained by Western ideas.

I don't think all do either. But I think far too many do, and recent polls back up that claim.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
But I do agree that taken independently, all Abrahamic scripture is ghastly.
IMO, they are all three so toxic and dangerous that they shouldn't be separated. They all worship the same god, they all turn to Moses and Abraham, and taken at face value they all teach things that are unreasonable in almost every place in this modern world, except, that is, for places that are generally Muslim majority. But, even still, they all three teach death to the infidel. They all call for abysmal treatment of women. And not a single one condemns or denounces slavery.
 

SabahTheLoner

Master of the Art of Couch Potato Cuddles
I don't think all do either. But I think far too many do, and recent polls back up that claim.

Unfortunately you are correct. However I think it depends how much the country isolates its people from the rest of the world, or encourages it. Saudi Arabia, although not mentioned in the statistics chart, has very poor human rights records as well as some of the most strict, isolating policies in the Arab world. There is some evidence that some of these attitudes are diminishing, even in Saudi Arabia, however I think in order to see a radical change, there has to be a generation of more open-minded, globally influenced individual young people in these areas taking place of the older, more isolated generations, both in politics and society.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
What is it about these regions of the world that have caused them to socially progress at such a stunted rate?
IMO, they are all three so toxic and dangerous that they shouldn't be separated. They all worship the same god, they all turn to Moses and Abraham, and taken at face value they all teach things that are unreasonable in almost every place in this modern world, except, that is, for places that are generally Muslim majority. But, even still, they all three teach death to the infidel. They all call for abysmal treatment of women. And not a single one condemns or denounces slavery.
It is plain to see that there are very significant differences, though. In the communities, the doctrines, and certainly in their understandings of god.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
It is plain to see that there are very significant differences, though. In the communities, the doctrines, and certainly in their understandings of god.
Of course they have their differences, but yet the differences are heavily outweighed by their similarities, especially Christianity and Islam, both of which have been throughout the entirety of their existence very heavily politically motivated, and the same commandment to spread their dogma to the world.
 
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