OK... certainly I doubt there is new material. However, some of the above has already been found. Much of the Apostles lives, where they went to, how they died etc. are documented.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Jesus, the Christian Myth
- Thread starter Arthur Garcia
- Start date
OK... certainly I doubt there is new material. However, some of the above has already been found. Much of the Apostles lives, where they went to, how they died etc. are documented.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe we do not say that Jesus is a god but that Jesus is God in the flesh.
I believe there is no way a born again Christian can miss out on eternal salvation, no matter how erratic the beliefs.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
You believe Jesus is God in the flesh? Then how come the very Catholic bible says eternal salvation is to know the Father as the only true God?
John 17:1,3 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
After Jesus had spoken these words, he looked up to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son so that the Son may glorify you,
And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
People say another - people want to believe what they like to believe even when my Lord Jesus Christ says this is eternal life, that they may know the Father as the only true God.
Is there eternal life to people who do not believe what Jesus said?
Let us not forget that Jesus said in John 10:30 "I and the Father we are one" and "he who has the Son has life" 1John 5:12 and "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life." John 3:36 Unless you are non-trinitarian almighty God in the economic Trinity work together in the salvation of the elect.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
I and the Father are one? John 10:30 - where is the trinity there?
Where is the other one to make it three - trinity?
I believe God is One
I believe the Father is the Only True God.
I believe your Trinity is nothing
Let us hear from one of your greatest Presidents:
"Now I urge you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God for me." Rom.15:30 We here see the trinity. As well here:
"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." Matthew 28:19 The one being of God existing as three coequal persons is explicitly expressed in this passage.
"But Peter said, 'Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God." Acts 5:3-4
Who did Ananias lie to? To the Holy Spirit. vs. 3
Who did Ananias lie to? To God. vs. 4
In this 2 verse context the same person is lied to. The Holy Spirit is defined as God.
"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." Matthew 28:19 The one being of God existing as three coequal persons is explicitly expressed in this passage.
"But Peter said, 'Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God." Acts 5:3-4
Who did Ananias lie to? To the Holy Spirit. vs. 3
Who did Ananias lie to? To God. vs. 4
In this 2 verse context the same person is lied to. The Holy Spirit is defined as God.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe since Jesus is one with the Father that He is the only true God as He said.
I believe what God says.
I believe there is. Before I knew Jesus I knew God.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I and the Father are one? John 10:30 - where is the trinity there?
Where is the other one to make it three - trinity?
I believe God is One
I believe the Father is the Only True God.
I believe your Trinity is nothing
Let us hear from one of your greatest Presidents:
I believe you are vastly confused. The Trinity does not have to be expressed in one verse but if you need one here it is:
John 14:20 In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
I believe that also.
I believe you have no evidence to support the null hypothesis.
I believe he never met me or he would have known someone with good reasoning and a distinct idea of the Trinity. I believe his last staement is one that comes from ignorance.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
You believe something that is not from the bible.
Even now I am waiting a verse from you.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Who is Jesus Christ talking to?
Isn't it the disciples?
Same verse - you quoted
Just raised it to 15 up to 20
John 14:15-20 New International Version (NIV)
“If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
If you use the bible which is understandable, without the ye and the hath - it would be fresh bread than reading
John 14:20 In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
Which the bible verse doesn't even say anything about the trinity but says On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
Totally irrelevant in comprehending the Trinity - assuming it is there.
I gave you a few. Respond to them.
Here is another if you're interested:
1 Corinthians 15:47 "The first man (Adam see v.22) is from the earth, earthy; the second man (Christ see also v.22) is from heaven."
And:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God" John 1:1-2
Here John is affirming that prior to Jesus' incarnation He exists in eternity for the words translated as "was" (was the Word, was with God, was God, was in the beginning) is the Greek word en. This Greek word expresses a continuous action in the past. It tells us that the Word, (Logos Greek) does not come into existence at the "beginning," but is already in existence when the "beginning" takes place.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
You quoted: "Now I urge you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God for me." Rom.15:30
I see 2 - that does not mean tri (three) - nity. And this does not prove the trinity. Notice the preposition by? BY is indicating the means of achieving something. In the Easy to Read Version of the Bible the verse is written like this:
Brothers and sisters, I beg you to help me in my work by praying to God for me. Do this because of our Lord Jesus and the love that the Spirit gives us.
"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." Matthew 28:19
...in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit does not say Trinity at all. It is in the name of...
John the Baptizer mentioned this:
“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Matthew 3:11 Luke 3:16
Does it mean fire is also God? Definitely not.
You quoted Acts 5:3-4
You have not lied to men but to God." Acts 5:3-4
Who did Ananias lie to? To the Holy Spirit. vs. 3
Who did Ananias lie to? To God. vs. 4
In this 2 verse context the same person is lied to.
The Holy Spirit is defined as God. - your conclusion
How about the Son?
Missing?
Did Ananias lied to the Son?
No mention in Acts 5:3-4
He lied to the Holy Spirit
He lied to God
Matthew 12:31-32 New International Version (NIV)
This is what my Lord Jesus said:
And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
Every kind of sin can be forgiven
Speaking against the Son of Man can be forgiven
Who is the Son of Man?
That proves my point that my Lord Jesus is the a Man.
But speaking against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable.
There is no co-equal Trinity here.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
You quoted:
1 Corinthians 15:47
"The first man (Adam see v.22) is from the earth, earthy; the second man (Christ see also v.22) is from heaven."
What can I say? You proved my point - that
Jesus is a man not God
Let us expand your verse a little better
1 Corinthians 15:45-48 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
As the Scriptures say, “The first man, Adam, became a living person.” But the last Adam is a life-giving spirit. The spiritual man did not come first. It was the physical man that came first; then came the spiritual. The first man came from the dust of the earth. The second man came from heaven. All people belong to the earth. They are like that first man of earth. But those who belong to heaven are like that man of heaven.
Number 23:19
Apostle Paul preached Jesus Christ is not God because he is that man of heaven.
Angels are of heaven and they are not God
There are 24 elders in heaven and they are not God
There are 4 living creatures in heaven and they are not God
My Lord Jesus Christ is that man of heaven and he is not God.
Please notice that Matt. 28:19 speaks of THREE persons that constitute the ONE name of God. Three in one = Trinity. To attempt to refute the doctrine of the Trinity because the word Trinity does not occur in the Bible commits the word-concept fallacy because taking the whole of Scripture (tota scriptura) the concept of the Trinity or the triune God is easily deduced to an open mind. The Bible explicitly speaks, over the course of progressive revelation, of the Father as God, the Son (Jesus Christ) as God, and the Holy Spirit as God.
Please define for me what is meant by the "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit".
Finally the economic Trinity has chosen to give to themselves particular actions to employ in regard to their actions toward His creatures. It is a mistake to deny equality of Divine essence because of this.
Please define for me what is meant by the "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit".
Finally the economic Trinity has chosen to give to themselves particular actions to employ in regard to their actions toward His creatures. It is a mistake to deny equality of Divine essence because of this.
You quoted:
1 Corinthians 15:47
"The first man (Adam see v.22) is from the earth, earthy; the second man (Christ see also v.22) is from heaven."
What can I say? You proved my point - that
Jesus is a man not God
Let us expand your verse a little better
1 Corinthians 15:45-48 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
As the Scriptures say, “The first man, Adam, became a living person.” But the last Adam is a life-giving spirit. The spiritual man did not come first. It was the physical man that came first; then came the spiritual. The first man came from the dust of the earth. The second man came from heaven. All people belong to the earth. They are like that first man of earth. But those who belong to heaven are like that man of heaven.
Number 23:19
Apostle Paul preached Jesus Christ is not God because he is that man of heaven.
Angels are of heaven and they are not God
There are 24 elders in heaven and they are not God
There are 4 living creatures in heaven and they are not God
My Lord Jesus Christ is that man of heaven and he is not God.
Is Jesus a man or a life-giving spirit?
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Here we go again...
The Word or the Logos is the thought about Christ but not Christ himself.
John 1:1 Moffatt
THE Logos existed in the very beginning, the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine. He was with God in the very beginning
THE Logos existed in the very beginning, the Logos was with God, He was with God in the very beginning - why is that so?
1 Peter 1:19-21 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
You were bought with the precious blood of Christ’s death. He was a pure and perfect sacrificial Lamb. Christ was chosen before the world was made, but he was shown to the world in these last times for you. You believe in God through Christ. God is the one who raised him from death and gave honor to him. So your faith and your hope are in God.
Who chose Christ before the world was made? It was God.
Hence: THE Logos existed in the very beginning, the Logos was with God,
the Logos was divine - why is that so?
Luke 1:37 New International Version (NIV)
For no word from God will ever fail.”
Hence: the Word from God is God
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Find the word Trinity in the Bible - I will humbly accept defeat.
But if there isn't one - I am sorry, but it is was concocted in 2 places in the present day Turkey near where Satan has his throne and where Satan lives.
3 in 1 economic Trinity? Like Legion.
Mark 5:8-10 New International Version (NIV)
For Jesus had said to him, “Come out of this man, you impure spirit!”
Then Jesus asked him, “What is your name?”
“My name is Legion,” he replied, “for we are many.” And he begged Jesus again and again not to send them out of the area.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Please notice that Matt. 28:19 speaks of THREE persons that constitute the ONE name of God. - it is just your assumption. It does not tell anyone that.
Always use the dictionary for hard terminologies.
Definition of BLASPHEME
We should not go beyond what is written. When a verse from one translation is not clear, we should not jump to conclusions immediately but rather check out other translations for clarity of their meanings.
1 Corinthians 15:45 Amplified Bible (AMP)
So it is written [in Scripture], “The first man, Adam, became a living soul (an individual);” the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving spirit [restoring the dead to life].
1 Corinthians 15:45 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
Thus it is written, The first man Adam became a living being (an individual personality); the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving Spirit [restoring the dead to life].
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. John 10:28
What is our part for us to have eternal life?
John 17:1-3 New King James Version (NKJV)
Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
Why do people refuse to accept this truth from Jesus Christ himself???
Because the devil worked
2 Corinthians 4:4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
OK.
Do you think that others should believe that as well? Should I? If so, why? On what basis?
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
I've seen people post that Jesus is an ahistorical person who never existed.
Scholars of course debate miracles. But serious scholars do not debate that Jesus preached, was baptized, crucified.