OT ritual by Jesus and his disciples is missing in the New Testament prior to crucifixion. Why?

Etritonakin said:

What were those offerings meant to accomplish?

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Each offering has its own purpose. That's why they're so varied. Its not hard to understand for instance, that the Thanks Offering was meant to help engender and express gratitude towards G-d's kindness. The way it was done was besides for the sacrifice itself, there were another 40 rather large loaves of bread (30 unleavened, 10 leavened) that needed to be eaten. Of course no one can eat so much within the day and night prescribed for eating them. So that means you need to invite a bunch of friends. "Hey friend, why are you inviting me to this bread party?" And then you're telling everyone the story about why you're giving thanks to G-d and G-d's kindness is publicized.

Or the First-Born Offering. Every time one of your kosher animals gives birth to a first-born male, you bring it to be sacrificed and you recall the Exodus where G-d publicized His Mercy in saving the first-born of the Jews and His Power in taking us out of Egypt with wonders.

Or the Tithe Offering. Every year you count up all your new sheep and take a tenth of them to the Temple to be sacrificed, with the non-altar-given portions being eaten in Jerusalem. A very straightforward way to be reminded that one's bounty comes from G-d.

To me these sounds like complete concepts. There is no reason to add a step after them.

I will try to answer more specifically later -and we likely believe different things -but even in the Old Testament alone, a future world is prophesied where none will hurt or destroy -and even the animals will no longer hurt each other.

That will be accomplished by all that has been before by men in obedience to God (The more minor things of which change over time -as evidenced by changing dietary requirements -no animals, all animals, some animals, no animals again the future) -and by that which God and Messiah have done for men.

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Dietary requirements only changed once between Adam and Noah. The Torah's dietary requirements didn't change anything for anyone else except Jews and its requirements remain in effect.

Psalm 40:6 suggests that God's focus was not on the sacrifices and offerings themselves, but the end which they were/will have been instrumental in bringing about. They were required for a purpose, and once that purpose is accomplished, they are no longer necessary or useful.

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I don't see that there at all. He doesn't mention anything about an end purpose. He does mention about gouging out ears. What he's saying there is that G-d's intent wasn't that we should bring sin and guilt offerings. He commanded us to listen to His commandments and not sin in the first place. The sin and guilt offerings are only after-the-fact requirements. That's why the following two verses speak of David following G-d's Will. If he meant that G-d doesn't want sacrifices at all, then this verse doesn't fit the context of the other verses.

That is not to say some offerings will not continue, but they will be different according to the situation -and the killing of animals for any purpose will no longer be done -as that which it accomplished will have been accomplished.

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I'm only familiar with verses that say that G-d's Laws are eternal.

When traveling to the feast of tabernacles, exchanging things for things more portable was allowed -so the things are not as important as the fact that one is doing the thing which God requires and desires -which is not the actual sacrifices and offerings for which he really has no need. Once men do what God requires, God can lead them to greater things.

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I'm not 100% sure what you're referring to here. I believe you're referring to the Second Tithe which is brought during years 1, 2, 4 and 5 of the Sabbatical cycle. Because the harvest can be quite large or the distance to Jerusalem quite far, it was possible to transfer the status of the tithe onto coins that can be used to buy food in Jerusalem.

Another type of transfer is done with first-born humans (onto money) and donkeys (onto sheep) - both of which can't be sacrificed.

What we see is that when the ideal can't be carried out according to the way it is meant to, there is a secondary method available so that the intent is at least still carried out.

The sacrificing of something in order to make things right with God never actually made men right with God -but God required them before he would overlook certain things, etc.
A sacrifice which actually is able to make men right with God -to enable them to cease sinning and no longer require sacrifice for sin, etc., nullifies the need for all other sacrifices for sin (which prepared a people for that which would happen later).

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A sacrifice can only ever help with atonement. Its meant to be a manifestation of the repentance that took place in the heart. When you bring a sin offering, your meant to lay your hands on its head and confess the sin it is brought for. Then you bring your animal[istic nature] to the altar and [show G-d how you're ready to] burn it. That's all G-d wants from us (Pro. 24:16). He already has angels, being perfect isn't our job. Striving for G-d is our job.

Tumah said:

Sorry about that. That was supposed to be Ex. 23:14-15. At the end there is a prohibition not to come empty handed when going to the Temple. The only thing you bring to the Temple is sacrifices. So its understood to be referring to an additional sacrifice that needs to be brought when one visits the Temple.

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Appreciate it.

Tumah said:

Each offering has its own purpose. That's why they're so varied. Its not hard to understand for instance, that the Thanks Offering was meant to help engender and express gratitude towards G-d's kindness. The way it was done was besides for the sacrifice itself, there were another 40 rather large loaves of bread (30 unleavened, 10 leavened) that needed to be eaten. Of course no one can eat so much within the day and night prescribed for eating them. So that means you need to invite a bunch of friends. "Hey friend, why are you inviting me to this bread party?" And then you're telling everyone the story about why you're giving thanks to G-d and G-d's kindness is publicized.

Or the First-Born Offering. Every time one of your kosher animals gives birth to a first-born male, you bring it to be sacrificed and you recall the Exodus where G-d publicized His Mercy in saving the first-born of the Jews and His Power in taking us out of Egypt with wonders.

Or the Tithe Offering. Every year you count up all your new sheep and take a tenth of them to the Temple to be sacrificed, with the non-altar-given portions being eaten in Jerusalem. A very straightforward way to be reminded that one's bounty comes from G-d.

To me these sounds like complete concepts. There is no reason to add a step after them.


Dietary requirements only changed once between Adam and Noah. The Torah's dietary requirements didn't change anything for anyone else except Jews and its requirements remain in effect.


I don't see that there at all. He doesn't mention anything about an end purpose. He does mention about gouging out ears. What he's saying there is that G-d's intent wasn't that we should bring sin and guilt offerings. He commanded us to listen to His commandments and not sin in the first place. The sin and guilt offerings are only after-the-fact requirements. That's why the following two verses speak of David following G-d's Will. If he meant that G-d doesn't want sacrifices at all, then this verse doesn't fit the context of the other verses.


I'm only familiar with verses that say that G-d's Laws are eternal.


I'm not 100% sure what you're referring to here. I believe you're referring to the Second Tithe which is brought during years 1, 2, 4 and 5 of the Sabbatical cycle. Because the harvest can be quite large or the distance to Jerusalem quite far, it was possible to transfer the status of the tithe onto coins that can be used to buy food in Jerusalem.

Another type of transfer is done with first-born humans (onto money) and donkeys (onto sheep) - both of which can't be sacrificed.

What we see is that when the ideal can't be carried out according to the way it is meant to, there is a secondary method available so that the intent is at least still carried out.


A sacrifice can only ever help with atonement. Its meant to be a manifestation of the repentance that took place in the heart. When you bring a sin offering, your meant to lay your hands on its head and confess the sin it is brought for. Then you bring your animal[istic nature] to the altar and [show G-d how you're ready to] burn it. That's all G-d wants from us (Pro. 24:16). He already has angels, being perfect isn't our job. Striving for G-d is our job.

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That's all very confusing to me.

What do you believe your future to be?

Are you saying that continuous sin and atonement is the end state desired by God?

Tumah said:

Of the 15 or so different sub-categories of burnt offerings, the donation burnt offering (discussed here in Lev. 1) can also be used to atone for some minor sins and the raising and lowering burnt offering is for three other specific sins. The remainder do not

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There are no sub-categories of the burnt offering in the Bible. You don't know if it could be used for what you are calling a minor sin, because the Bible does not say it can.


[/QUOTE]Then refer to them before making the statement that the majority of sacrifices were used for sin.[/QUOTE]

There are only 5 types of offerings mentioned in the Bible. 3 are for atonement. That is the majority.

MJFlores said:

Because animal sacrifices were already suspended even before the Lord Jesus Christ was born.

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If animal sacrifices were suspended explain the cleansing of the Temple by Jesus. What was going on with the money changers? An all night poker game?

roger1440 said:

If animal sacrifices were suspended explain the cleansing of the Temple by Jesus. What was going on with the money changers? An all night poker game?

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John 2:13-17 New International Version (NIV)

When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!” His disciples remembered that it is written: “Zeal for your house will consume me.”



The cattle, sheep and doves are for animal sacrifices. The Jews continued animal sacrifices in compliance to the Law of Moses. The money changers are there to exchange gold/silver into currency, not for gambling. Apparently people were enterprising that they found out that they could sell more if they are located nearby the temple.

Even when my Lord Jesus was circumcised, 2 doves were offered as animal sacrifices:

Luke 2:21-24 New King James Version (NKJV)

And when eight days were completed for the circumcision of the Child, His name was called Jesus, the name given by the angel before He was conceived in the womb.

Now when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were completed, they brought Him to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord (as it is written in the law of the Lord, “Every male who opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord”), and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the law of the Lord, “A pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons.”


Animal sacrifices were suspended when the First Temple was destroyed and the Israelites exile to Babylon. It was resumed after the 2nd Temple was built then permanently cancelled after Christ death on the cross and the destruction of the 2nd Temple.

Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. Hebrews 7:27

Tumah said:

Each offering has its own purpose. That's why they're so varied. Its not hard to understand for instance, that the Thanks Offering was meant to help engender and express gratitude towards G-d's kindness. The way it was done was besides for the sacrifice itself, there were another 40 rather large loaves of bread (30 unleavened, 10 leavened) that needed to be eaten. Of course no one can eat so much within the day and night prescribed for eating them. So that means you need to invite a bunch of friends. "Hey friend, why are you inviting me to this bread party?" And then you're telling everyone the story about why you're giving thanks to G-d and G-d's kindness is publicized.

Or the First-Born Offering. Every time one of your kosher animals gives birth to a first-born male, you bring it to be sacrificed and you recall the Exodus where G-d publicized His Mercy in saving the first-born of the Jews and His Power in taking us out of Egypt with wonders.

Or the Tithe Offering. Every year you count up all your new sheep and take a tenth of them to the Temple to be sacrificed, with the non-altar-given portions being eaten in Jerusalem. A very straightforward way to be reminded that one's bounty comes from G-d.

To me these sounds like complete concepts. There is no reason to add a step after them.


Dietary requirements only changed once between Adam and Noah. The Torah's dietary requirements didn't change anything for anyone else except Jews and its requirements remain in effect.


I don't see that there at all. He doesn't mention anything about an end purpose. He does mention about gouging out ears. What he's saying there is that G-d's intent wasn't that we should bring sin and guilt offerings. He commanded us to listen to His commandments and not sin in the first place. The sin and guilt offerings are only after-the-fact requirements. That's why the following two verses speak of David following G-d's Will. If he meant that G-d doesn't want sacrifices at all, then this verse doesn't fit the context of the other verses.


I'm only familiar with verses that say that G-d's Laws are eternal.


I'm not 100% sure what you're referring to here. I believe you're referring to the Second Tithe which is brought during years 1, 2, 4 and 5 of the Sabbatical cycle. Because the harvest can be quite large or the distance to Jerusalem quite far, it was possible to transfer the status of the tithe onto coins that can be used to buy food in Jerusalem.

Another type of transfer is done with first-born humans (onto money) and donkeys (onto sheep) - both of which can't be sacrificed.

What we see is that when the ideal can't be carried out according to the way it is meant to, there is a secondary method available so that the intent is at least still carried out.


A sacrifice can only ever help with atonement. Its meant to be a manifestation of the repentance that took place in the heart. When you bring a sin offering, your meant to lay your hands on its head and confess the sin it is brought for. Then you bring your animal[istic nature] to the altar and [show G-d how you're ready to] burn it. That's all G-d wants from us (Pro. 24:16). He already has angels, being perfect isn't our job. Striving for G-d is our job.

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God's law is eternal -but not all of the "law" (entire set of instructions) is LAW (Basic and unchanging commandments).
Part of the law are judgments which are case-specific or situation-specific.
Though dietary requirements changed only once from Adam to Noah, they did change.
The fact that Israel was given specific dietary laws which were different is not as important as the fact that God changed the dietary requirements of HIS PEOPLE. The fact that Israel did not exist when the previous were given is not as significant as the fact that God has changed dietary requirements and allowances over time.

If God -in the future -tells you that animals will no longer be eaten at all -because none shall hurt or destroy in his holy mountain ( not kill AT ALL ) -that will be the law of God applicable at the time -even though the Ten Commandments will not have changed.
Also.... Even though the commandment of adultery is always in effect, it ends with the death of one or the other. Similarly, sacrificing an animal for our sin was required before a greater sacrifice enabled the removal of sinful nature.

The changing of man's nature requires God's spirit -but man must first be prepared to receive it -to be willing to do what it enables them to do. The question then becomes what sort of sacrifice is necessary to precede an everlasting atonement and prepare a future for those made able to overcome sin and obey God in spirit and truth?

BEING perfect IS our job -otherwise there would not be penalty for not doing our job. The penalties for transgressing the law in the Old Testament were against actually committing a sin, as men were capable of not doing something -even if they really felt like doing it. If God did not want us to be perfect, he would not be as a refiner's fire and a fuller's soap.

However, we cannot make ourselves perfect -and it is God's job to make us perfect as we strive for God -which is striving to perfectly obey the commandments of God.
It is GOD'S JOB to bring us through a process which will make us no longer UNDER the law because we, by a new and purified nature, ARE ABLE TO OBEY THE LAW in letter AND in spirit.

Now -if a sacrifice is able to bring about what we were willing to do -yet did not do -and enable us to do it -it would be better than a symbolic sacrifice which showed willingness but did not change the animalistic nature of man.

So -what is necessary is a sacrifice able to change human nature to Godly nature.
When that is accomplished, animal sacrifice would be of no purpose.
The willingness shown by animal sacrifice is important -and prepared a people who were first made willing -and then became able.

We are also to be made perfect for a greater purpose.

Even the Old Testament hints at everlasting salvation including not only the Earth, but the heavens being inhabited -but it can not be inhabited until it is known that sin will not ruin the universe as it threatens to destroy the earth itself.

One also has to consider the question of space for a world where the population is no longer decreased by war AND those who lived before are resurrected AND the new humans die and are then saved (all in the Old Testament). Where will they all dwell?

17But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
18For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

MJFlores said:

John 2:13-17 New International Version (NIV)

When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!” His disciples remembered that it is written: “Zeal for your house will consume me.”

View attachment 17006

The cattle, sheep and doves are for animal sacrifices. The Jews continued animal sacrifices in compliance to the Law of Moses. The money changers are there to exchange gold/silver into currency, not for gambling. Apparently people were enterprising that they found out that they could sell more if they are located nearby the temple.

Even when my Lord Jesus was circumcised, 2 doves were offered as animal sacrifices:

Luke 2:21-24 New King James Version (NKJV)

And when eight days were completed for the circumcision of the Child, His name was called Jesus, the name given by the angel before He was conceived in the womb.

Now when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were completed, they brought Him to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord (as it is written in the law of the Lord, “Every male who opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord”), and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the law of the Lord, “A pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons.”

View attachment 17007
Animal sacrifices were suspended when the First Temple was destroyed and the Israelites exile to Babylon. It was resumed after the 2nd Temple was built then permanently cancelled after Christ death on the cross and the destruction of the 2nd Temple.

Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. Hebrews 7:27

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I wasn’t aware that the Temple sacrifices were “permanently cancelled”. Jewish scripture goes into detail on how these sacrifices must be carried out. I don’t see any verses pertaining to being “permanently cancelled”. These sacrifices must be done at the Temple. There is no Temple at the present moment. Therefore the sacrifices are put on hold. What provision must be made to permanently cancel the Temple sacrifices? This provision must be found in Jewish scripture.

roger1440 said:

I wasn’t aware that the Temple sacrifices were “permanently cancelled”. Jewish scripture goes into detail on how these sacrifices must be carried out. I don’t see any verses pertaining to being “permanently cancelled”. These sacrifices must be done at the Temple. There is no Temple at the present moment. Therefore the sacrifices are put on hold. What provision must be made to permanently cancel the Temple sacrifices? This provision must be found in Jewish scripture.

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The Law of Moses required animal sacrifices and was practiced by the Israelites - as offering for their sins

Leviticus 1New International Version (NIV)

The Lord called to Moses and spoke to him from the tent of meeting. He said, “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When anyone among you brings an offering to the Lord, bring as your offering an animal from either the herd or the flock.

As an American, you are exempted from the order because it is for the Israelites. Even Israelis are not Israelites.



“The multitude of your sacrifices— what are they to me?” says theLord. “I have more than enough of burnt offerings, of rams and the fat of fattened animals; I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats. Isaiah 1:11

That was the old covenant and God found fault with the Israelites that they continued breaking his covenant with them. So...
Jeremiah 31:31-32 New International Version (NIV)

“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,”
declares the Lord.

When did the day came?

In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. Luke 22:20

In with the new covenant and the old covenant obsolete:
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. Hebrews 8:13

When did the old covenant became obsolete and outdated?
You said it yourself: "These sacrifices must be done at the Temple. There is no Temple at the present moment. Therefore the sacrifices are put on hold." - in short it was because of the Jewish Diaspora and the temple was destroyed by the Romans. The Diaspora
The end result, there was no more Israelites but a mixed Jewish race (Israeli). Hence, the old covenant disappeared due to obsolescence and outdated. No more temple, no more Israelites.

And there was no more need for animal sacrifices because my Lord Jesus Christ did it once and for all.

Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. Hebrews 7:27

The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. Hebrews 10:1

so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. Hebrews 9:28

roger1440 said:

I wasn’t aware that the Temple sacrifices were “permanently cancelled”. Jewish scripture goes into detail on how these sacrifices must be carried out. I don’t see any verses pertaining to being “permanently cancelled”. These sacrifices must be done at the Temple. There is no Temple at the present moment. Therefore the sacrifices are put on hold. What provision must be made to permanently cancel the Temple sacrifices? This provision must be found in Jewish scripture.

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I believe there are quite a few Jewish people who believe this and are responding by making efforts to build the Temple again.

KenS said:

I believe there are quite a few Jewish people who believe this and are responding by making efforts to build the Temple again.

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Where the “quite a few Jewish people” want to build it? That real estate is owned by another group now.

roger1440 said:

Where the “quite a few Jewish people” want to build it? That real estate is owned by another group now.

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Why Haven’t Jews Rebuilt the Temple Yet?

Yes... that will be nothing short of another miracle like unto the establishing the country of Israel. Then again, in my lifetime, people were asking "How can Germany be one country? (speaking of the east and west) That real estate is owned by another group now"

There was a wall that separated them but overnight, things change and the impossible becomes possible.

roger1440 said:

Where the “quite a few Jewish people” want to build it? That real estate is owned by another group now.

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Because the OLD COVENANT is gone.
There will be no Temple for the Jewish faith.

“Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
John 4:21

omega2xx said:

There are no sub-categories of the burnt offering in the Bible. You don't know if it could be used for what you are calling a minor sin, because the Bible does not say it can.

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Sure there are:
Seeing burn offering (sheep, goat, possible bull)
Post-birthing burn offering (lamb)
High Priest's Day of Atonement burnt offering (ram)
Rising and Falling burn offering (one of two pigeons)
Conversion burnt offering (animal or two pigeons)
Leper's burnt offering (lamb or bird)
Nazirite burnt offering (pigeon or lamb depending on circumstances)
Flow burnt offering (one of two pigeons)

Perpetual burnt offering (two lambs daily)
Addition burn offering (two lambs on the Sabbath; 2 bull, a ram and 7 lambs on the New Month, Passover and Festival of Weeks; a bull, ram and 7 lambs on New Year, Day of Atonement and Eighth Day of Gathering; 2 rams, 10 lambs and a descending number of bulls (from 13-7) per day of Tabernacles )
Burnt offering that goes with the Sheaf on the second day of Passover (lamb)
Burnt offering brought with the Two Breads of the Festival of Weeks (lamb)
Public burnt offering on the Day of Atonement (ram)
Mistake leading to Idol worship burnt offering (lamb)
Empty Altar burnt offering

As you can see, there are many different types of burnt offerings.

There are only 5 types of offerings mentioned in the Bible. 3 are for atonement. That is the majority.

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There are eight types of offerings (not including libations):
Burnt offerings
Sin offerings
Fault offerings
Peace offerings
Tithe offerings
First born offerings
Passover offering
Meal offerings

Each one of these sacrifices has its own distinct laws as to how the sacrifice is performed (as opposed to sub-categories where the sacrifices are all performed generally in the same fashion with differing animals).

MJFlores said:

Because the OLD COVENANT is gone.
There will be no Temple for the Jewish faith.

“Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
John 4:21

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Actually, if one goes by scripture, the Temple will be rebuilt.

Tumah said:

Sure there are:
Seeing burn offering (sheep, goat, possible bull)
Post-birthing burn offering (lamb)
High Priest's Day of Atonement burnt offering (ram)
Rising and Falling burn offering (one of two pigeons)
Conversion burnt offering (animal or two pigeons)
Leper's burnt offering (lamb or bird)
Nazirite burnt offering (pigeon or lamb depending on circumstances)
Flow burnt offering (one of two pigeons)

Perpetual burnt offering (two lambs daily)
Addition burn offering (two lambs on the Sabbath; 2 bull, a ram and 7 lambs on the New Month, Passover and Festival of Weeks; a bull, ram and 7 lambs on New Year, Day of Atonement and Eighth Day of Gathering; 2 rams, 10 lambs and a descending number of bulls (from 13-7) per day of Tabernacles )
Burnt offering that goes with the Sheaf on the second day of Passover (lamb)
Burnt offering brought with the Two Breads of the Festival of Weeks (lamb)
Public burnt offering on the Day of Atonement (ram)
Mistake leading to Idol worship burnt offering (lamb)
Empty Altar burnt offering

As you can see, there are many different types of burnt offerings.




There are eight types of offerings (not including libations):
Burnt offerings
Sin offerings
Fault offerings
Peace offerings
Tithe offerings
First born offerings
Passover offering
Meal offerings

Each one of these sacrifices has its own distinct laws as to how the sacrifice is performed (as opposed to sub-categories where the sacrifices are all performed generally in the same fashion with differing animals).

Click to expand...

If you want to divide them up that way, find. I was only referring to the Levitical offering in Leviticus. It still does nt change the teaching of the offerings requiring a blood sacrifice---man does not have to die for his sins. A substitute can be offered.

omega2xx said:

If you want to divide them up that way, find.

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Is there a more logical way to divide the sacrifices?

I was only referring to the Levitical offering in Leviticus. It still does nt change the teaching of the offerings requiring a blood sacrifice---man does not have to die for his sins. A substitute can be offered.

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Its impossible to derive this teaching from the Torah because there are no sacrifices prescribed where there would have been a death penalty. The two are two separate systems.

Examples:

• There is no death penalty for stealing. One needs to return the object or pay a fine as well as bring a fault offering.
• Intentionally killing someone gets a death penalty. There is no sacrifice. Accidentally killing someone gets exiled to an absorption city.
• Transgressing the Sabbath intentionally gets the death penalty. Unintentionally - one brings a sacrifice.
• Additionally, if (for instance) a poor person takes a false oath in court, he doesn't even need to bring an animal as he can just bring a little over 1.5 kilograms of flour for his sacrifice.

When you have to die, a sacrifice won't help. And when you can bring a sacrifice, you weren't going to die anyway.

KenS said:

I believe there are quite a few Jewish people who believe this and are responding by making efforts to build the Temple again.

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All Orthodox Jews believe that sacrifices will continue when the Temple is rebuilt. But very, very few are making efforts to rebuild it for a number of reasons ncluding - but not limited to - the current Mosque on the mountain top.

MJFlores said:

The Law of Moses required animal sacrifices and was practiced by the Israelites - as offering for their sins

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Sometimes anyway...

View attachment 17015

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Most of us are adults and don't need pictures along with what we read anymore.

As an American, you are exempted from the order because it is for the Israelites. Even Israelis are not Israelites.

Click to expand...

Wurt???

That was the old covenant and God found fault with the Israelites that they continued breaking his covenant with them. So...
Jeremiah 31:31-32 New International Version (NIV)

“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,”
declares the Lord.

When did the day came?

Click to expand...

It didnt. You can tell this is so because we still have to teach people Torah.

When did the old covenant became obsolete and outdated?
You said it yourself: "These sacrifices must be done at the Temple. There is no Temple at the present moment. Therefore the sacrifices are put on hold." - in short it was because of the Jewish Diaspora and the temple was destroyed by the Romans. The Diaspora

Click to expand...

By that logic, the covenant became obsolete over 400 years prior when the First Temple was destroyed and no sacrifices were brought for 70 years.

The end result, there was no more Israelites but a mixed Jewish race (Israeli).

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Wurt...?

And there was no more need for animal sacrifices because my Lord Jesus Christ did it once and for all.

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Did what?

Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. Hebrews 7:27

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What about all the other sacrifices that are unrelated to sins?

Tumah said:

Sometimes anyway...

Most of us are adults and don't need pictures along with what we read anymore.

Wurt???

It didnt. You can tell this is so because we still have to teach people Torah.

By that logic, the covenant became obsolete over 400 years prior when the First Temple was destroyed and no sacrifices were brought for 70 years.

Wurt...?

Did what?

What about all the other sacrifices that are unrelated to sins?

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Hello Tumah:

I like pictures and illustrations because it helps me explain better. Isn't it true that before my Lord Jesus came, Israel has the one true God and the rest of the World didn't? Yes I believe it is true.

2 Kings 5:15 New International Version (NIV)

Then Naaman and all his attendants went back to the man of God. He stood before him and said, “Now I know that there is no God in all the world except in Israel. So please accept a gift from your servant.”

Egypt has:

And the Babylonians have theirs, the Romans have theirs and the Greeks have theirs. But the only true God, is in Israel and God chose the Israelites to be his.

For the Lord has chosen Jacob to be his own, Israel to be his treasured possession. Psalm 135:4

During the time of Jeremiah, God said:

Jeremiah 31:30-32 New International Version (NIV)

Instead, everyone will die for their own sin; whoever eats sour grapes—their own teeth will be set on edge.

“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,”
declares the Lord.

How did God fulfill the making of a new covenant? When God sent his only Son to introduce the new covenant in his blood.

Hebrews 8 New International Version (NIV)

Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by a mere human being.

Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. But God found fault with the people and said:

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.



I believe it disappeared:

When the last Israelite disappeared - due to diaspora. The pure Israelite intermarried with foreigners over the period of time. Hence, Israeli is the term than Israelite.

When the 2nd Temple was razed by the Romans