The Bible & Cannabis

Simurgh · Mar 21, 2017

chessplayer said:
Simurgh ...I could post you hundreds of examples from my small circle of people , I could tell you my own story , but I suspect that you would not believe any of them . suffice to ask , do you think we would still be discussing this after 2000 years if there was no substance to all this , Note there is no coercion , or pressure to force people into Christianity . You have freedom to accept or reject Jesus , just the same as any love relationship , love has to be given freely otherwise it`s not love.

just because people have a tendency to evade responsibility and accountability by retreating into some religious realm means nothing. and as for not coercing people into christianity, you really need to look at the history of that faith. that's just laughable assertion given the evidence against it. and then there are the more subtle forces of social blackmail and coercion that pervade socio-cultural discourse. as a atheist i am constantly exposed to that so don't tell me it doesn't exist.
and fifteen stories about what again? i come across people who find jesus all the time, they are saved so what? you think their victims care? it doesn't change their behavior at all. they just tell me that i cannot judge them, their god will. yeah, big deal. invisible dude in the sky will do something sometime after they are dead. there is much better fiction out there than the bible.
and a marriage course? that usually means men get absolved of their guilt and their cheating is forgiven, and they get to patronize heir wives who buy into that bull**** that everything is their fault anyhow and they need to forgive their sinning husbands because the little godling does too?
how can one be a jewish atheist anyhow? atheist means that one does not believe in the existence of spirits and such. being jewish implies belonging to a specific religious group.
religion has always been used as a tool to justify and legitimize idiocy, weakness, criminal behavior and the most inhumane actions possible. that alpha group thing and other make-belief systems don't impress me nor do they prove anything else other than people are gullible and excuse anything that has some religious seal of approval slapped on it.

missmay · Mar 21, 2017

william7 said:
Would you say that Bible and US Constitution provide a strong right to use cannabis as medicine? See http://cannabisasmedicine.info/

missmay · Mar 21, 2017

william7 said:
Would you say that Bible and US Constitution provide a strong right to use cannabis as medicine? See http://cannabisasmedicine.info/

I don't believe the Bible condones it, especially since it has been known to wreak havoc on alot of people's lives. I've known friends who are habitual users (who think they aren't addicted) and I can see correlations/similarities between them that affect their personalities in similar ways that don't do them good. Pre Christian days, I smoked it a few times. One time it made me walk out of a store forgetting to pay for a snickers. That was kind of scary. I'd never forgotten to pay for something! Several years after I re dedicated my life to Christ, I was on a first date and to quell my nervousness smoking some with my date who offered it to me. I remember the high didn't last for very long, and the next day I felt like I really lost something valuable, like a piece of the kingdom of God inside me had been chipped away. It was really profound loss though, like I wouldn't be able to get it back. My faith was still there, and I've grown as a Christian since then, but I never did it again be cat of the loss I felt. I do remember I must've played my musical instrument with more emotion, because twice, my cat ran up behind me and grabbed the back of my hair as I was playing and ran off with joy. I know cannabis can make one more emotional so I'm assuming it came through my music. As a musician, I would be tempted to use it just for that purpose alone, but as a Christian, what I lost was much more valuable and profound.

missmay · Mar 21, 2017

Seablade the Heretic said:
On this particular issue, the bible is relatively clear as to cannabis usage and so is the Constitution, albeit both indirectly.

The bible:

Gen 1:30 - And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Last time I looked, cannabis, along with 1000's of other plants, are all edible, e.g., meat, and provide, in part, some measure of benefit, cannabis included.
If, you're a Christian or of another faith that uses the bible, you cannot escape this fundamental aspect of creation in general: that God gave us every green [plant] for [food]; this would by necessity include cannabis.

The Constitution:

Amendment X: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

This really does answer the question as to the issue of cannabis. The Constitution is silent on this issue since this involves not only personal choice, but an inherit right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" as enumerated in the Declaration of Independence.

For example, a prohibition for the States, under the Constitution, is that they cannot make treaties with other nations. However, there is no prohibition against using or not using any plant matter whatsoever. Therefore, it is not illegal under the Constitution and reserved to you.

It cannot be any clearer. There is no condemnation whatsoever from either the Bible nor the Constitution as to the usage of cannabis as a medicine, or even in a recreational setting. Those interested should really study the history of this plant and why there is such a stigma about it and why it's so vilified by governments.

The Bible is clearly talking about plants as being a source of food in Genesis. There are poisonous plants as well, and God gives human's as well as animals intelligence and intuition on what is good and isn't good for us. He expects us to use discernment . Jesus drank wine and didn't condemn it, but the Bible does say that getting drunk is bad, clouds the mind, and that wine (or drinking often in a careless matter) isn't for kings or people in position in leadership who would lose alot from making a poor decision.

Father Heathen · Mar 21, 2017

william7 said:
Would you say that Bible and US Constitution provide a strong right to use cannabis as medicine? See http://cannabisasmedicine.info/

The Constitution, sure. I don't see the bible as relevant, however.

wizanda · Mar 22, 2017

william7 said:
The Bible & Cannabis especially.

Yeshua and his disciples (Mark 6:13) were healing (James 5:14) with the holy anointing oil (Exodus 30:23-24)...

Where it should contain Kaneh Bosem, as Dr Sula Benet of the Warsaw University put forth.

A Christ means an anointed one, and a Christian is a little anointed one; thus the early church were all anointed.

The article tries to say alcohol is acceptable Biblically, and Cannabis can be seen likewise; which personally see as being blasphemous.

Proverbs 31:4-7 It is not for kings, Lemuel; it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes to say, ‘Where is strong drink?’ (5) lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the justice due to anyone who is afflicted. (6) Give strong drink to him who is ready to perish; and wine to the bitter in soul: (7) Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

As this suggest alcohol is for those who are ready to die; not for those deemed worthy least they distort the Law....Whereas those full of smoke don't distort the Law:

Psalms 119:83 For I have become like a wineskin in the smoke. I don’t forget your statutes.

Tho a biblical debate, find it astounding that in many religions globally there is a sacred plant (Soma, Haoma), where there is an global amnesia to the identification of it; when the affects are what we still see from cannabis users.

chessplayer · Mar 22, 2017

[QUOTE="Simurgh, post: 5118292, member: 41074"]just because people have a tendency to evade responsibility and accountability by retreating into some religious realm means nothing strange, but I feel it`s the opposite , when you put your trust in Christ , then you are facing reality and personal responsibility and therefore have no need for "alternatives " because Jesus satisfies our every need, IMO.. and as for not coercing people into christianity, you really need to look at the history of that faith. that's just laughable assertion given the evidence against it. In centuries gone by apparently the institution called the church , which was often a political power , failed to resemble the true church as taught by Jesus , and then there are the more subtle forces of social blackmail and coercion that pervade socio-cultural discourse. as a atheist i am constantly exposed to that so don't tell me it doesn't exist. desiring to share an experience of blessing and freedom is not the same as being threatening and manipulative, God wants us to trust Him with our free will , otherwise it`s not love.
and fifteen stories about what again? i come across people who find jesus all the time, they are saved so what? you think their victims care? it doesn't change their behavior at all. Accepting and trusting Jesus can be an instant transformation , as it was for me , however for everyone who makes that decision , it`s the start of a journey of sanctification and redemption they just tell me that i cannot judge them, their god will. yeah, big deal. invisible dude in the sky will do something sometime after they are dead. there is much better fiction out there than the bible.
and a marriage course? that usually means men get absolved of their guilt and their cheating is forgiven, and they get to patronize heir wives who buy into that bull**** that everything is their fault anyhow and they need to forgive their sinning husbands because the little godling does too? Don`t you think you are being a touch cynical , after al,l the fact that lives are still being transformed 2000 years after the primary event ( resurrection ) must surely say something to you ?
how can one be a jewish atheist anyhow? atheist means that one does not believe in the existence of spirits and such. being jewish implies belonging to a specific religious group.I think there are many non- believing Jews , but who are culturally identifying themselves, what else could they call themselves ?
religion has always been used as a tool to justify and legitimize idiocy, weakness, criminal behavior and the most inhumane actions possible. that alpha group thing and other make-belief systems don't impress me nor do they prove anything else other than people are gullible and excuse anything that has some religious seal of approval slapped on it You were given ( by God the Creator ) the free will to believe what you want to , it`s completely your choice .I don`t at all think you are right , but hey ,I`ve been there as well (42 years ago ) so I`m not criticizing you but just offering a discussion as per the thread ....... HAND [/QUOTE]

chessplayer · Mar 22, 2017

We all have a " space " inside us which IMO only God can fill . Some try to fill it with alternatives to attempt to evade the call of God , to obliterate His voice in their hearts. Many will do this for decades even up to death.
The usual alternatives are Alcohol ,compulsion with money and having stuff, pornography, even degenerating ( in the search for the illusive satisfaction ) to abusing children ,and of course drug abuse . Some will even curse God as they die,resisting Him all the way , which is weird , as they are expressing their belief in God but not their faith !

william7 · Mar 23, 2017

Seablade the Heretic said:
On this particular issue, the bible is relatively clear as to cannabis usage and so is the Constitution, albeit both indirectly.

The bible:

Gen 1:30 - And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Last time I looked, cannabis, along with 1000's of other plants, are all edible, e.g., meat, and provide, in part, some measure of benefit, cannabis included.
If, you're a Christian or of another faith that uses the bible, you cannot escape this fundamental aspect of creation in general: that God gave us every green [plant] for [food]; this would by necessity include cannabis.

The Constitution:

Amendment X: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

This really does answer the question as to the issue of cannabis. The Constitution is silent on this issue since this involves not only personal choice, but an inherit right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" as enumerated in the Declaration of Independence.

For example, a prohibition for the States, under the Constitution, is that they cannot make treaties with other nations. However, there is no prohibition against using or not using any plant matter whatsoever. Therefore, it is not illegal under the Constitution and reserved to you.

It cannot be any clearer. There is no condemnation whatsoever from either the Bible nor the Constitution as to the usage of cannabis as a medicine, or even in a recreational setting. Those interested should really study the history of this plant and why there is such a stigma about it and why it's so vilified by governments.

Wow! Great answer,

william7 · Mar 23, 2017

Blastcat said:
I thought the discussion was to be about the Bible.. not the US Constitution.. do you think both documents are the same?

No, but they both give us rights and duties that are fundamental. The Bible is, however, superior to our Constitution.

william7 · Mar 23, 2017

missmay said:
I don't believe the Bible condones it, especially since it has been known to wreak havoc on alot of people's lives. I've known friends who are habitual users (who think they aren't addicted) and I can see correlations/similarities between them that affect their personalities in similar ways that don't do them good. Pre Christian days, I smoked it a few times. One time it made me walk out of a store forgetting to pay for a snickers. That was kind of scary. I'd never forgotten to pay for something! Several years after I re dedicated my life to Christ, I was on a first date and to quell my nervousness smoking some with my date who offered it to me. I remember the high didn't last for very long, and the next day I felt like I really lost something valuable, like a piece of the kingdom of God inside me had been chipped away. It was really profound loss though, like I wouldn't be able to get it back. My faith was still there, and I've grown as a Christian since then, but I never did it again be cat of the loss I felt. I do remember I must've played my musical instrument with more emotion, because twice, my cat ran up behind me and grabbed the back of my hair as I was playing and ran off with joy. I know cannabis can make one more emotional so I'm assuming it came through my music. As a musician, I would be tempted to use it just for that purpose alone, but as a Christian, what I lost was much more valuable and profound.

Notice that I advocate the use of the high CBD strain of cannabis that's low in THC. It's not psychoactive meaning it won't get you high or stoned. In many cases they give it to children. Watch Weed the CNN documentary about the little girl with Dravet's syndrome who takes the high CBD strain to stop her seizures and get off the really dangerous psychoactive drugs the doctors give her.

missmay · Apr 20, 2017

william7 said:
Notice that I advocate the use of the high CBD strain of cannabis that's low in THC. It's not psychoactive meaning it won't get you high or stoned. In many cases they give it to children. Watch Weed the CNN documentary about the little girl with Dravet's syndrome who takes the high CBD strain to stop her seizures and get off the really dangerous psychoactive drugs the doctors give her.

Very interesting video, thanks. In your original post though, you didn't clarify the this very unique type of cannabis that doesn't typically get someone high. The problem is, most people don't use it for true medical needs, but simply to take the edge off of life. I can understand if someone's brain us very overactive and that cannabis helps them to feel a little more normal. I definitely can understand the draw of anything making you feel better. But what price will be paid because of it? Obviously the little girl and some of the other's in the video truly needed it, but their body's were over reactive in the first place. What happens when most people, like the people who were smoking in large crowds and singing it's praises? I just saw a bunch of dumbed down people wanting a bonding experience with other people doing a drug that, in my opinion takes the place of a spiritual need. Certain drugs provide a natural high that causes us to only care about the present and not on spiritual regeneration. Sure, they can put us in a state of spiritual reflection at times, but habitual use in my opinion robs people of the ability to connect more with God and grow mentally and spiritually as God intended for us. I just see alot if people forfeiting their spiritual destinies and any greatness that goes with that for something that makes them think that all they need on a daily basis in this life is their high. I'm subject to wanting that high just like alot of people, but I know it can easily deceive us into thinking that's all there is in life.

Twilight Hue · Apr 20, 2017

Simurgh said:
are you looking for an easy justification for drug use?

I agree.

Skip all the b.s. schematics and justifications and get to the real heart of it all by just saying, "I want to do drugs and get high off it".

It's really what these kinds of arguements and debates are all about.

Getting high.

wizanda · Apr 20, 2017

Nowhere Man said:
Getting high.

What if all these ancient religions are created by people on a psychotropic affect, thus to truly understand their consciousness, and to spiritually feel the qualities they ascribe...

It isn't a state of being high, it is a normal aspect of living...

Our brains need a full range of omega oils, which we only get from hemp; it has been a part of our diet throughout human history, some of the most simple animals on this planet have a cannabinoid system.

We need to question the difference between an intoxicant, which many list as drugs, and then include cannabis in the same topic, which shows miseducation in someway....

Cannabis does not intoxicate; it joins on to cannbinoid receptors in the brain, that are specifically meant for it.

Thus it is a food group, without cannabis in a person's diet, they will have irregular firing of their neural pathways, which can then lead to illogical close minded thinking.

Personally see cannabis based on many religions globally (Hindu, Zoroastrianism, Jewish, American Indian, Rasta, Christian (means anointed ones in cannabis oil), etc) as a holy ceremony, that had existed throughout human history.

MJFlores · Apr 22, 2017

Saw the thread recommended by the topic starter @william7 posted the first paragraph here.

The Bible & Cannabis
The biggest support found for using cannabis in the Scriptures is that God created all the seed-bearing plants - including the green plants - for man and animal to use as food. Genesis 1:11,29,30. This is very significant since these Scriptures makes it clear that government has no authority to prohibit the people from growing and using cannabis. Cannabis is something God gave to all men as food for their health and well-being. It is a natural right and falls under the right to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness protected in the United States Declaration of Independence. Certainly, a very strong right to adequate medicine must, as commonsense rule, follow from this declaration.
The Bible & Cannabis

Well if Americans would like ...the pursuit of Happiness part, it is the land of the free, I think.

However, I believe it is inappropriate to use the Bible to justify the use of weed. The website cited:

....God created all the seed-bearing plants - including the green plants - for man and animal to use as food. Genesis 1:11,29,30. ....

What would be next? The poppy plant?

Where Heroine and Morphine comes from?

Or the coca plant? Where cocaine comes from?

Sure they are created by God, but I think its proliferation should be controlled for medicinal than recreational purposes. God made the snake:

The snake was the most intelligent of all the wild animals that the Lord God had made. CEB Genesis 3:1

Wouldn't it be horrifying for someone to bring it to school to teach a child a lesson or two?

william7 · Apr 25, 2017

MJFlores said:
Saw the thread recommended by the topic starter @william7 posted the first paragraph here.

The Bible & Cannabis
The biggest support found for using cannabis in the Scriptures is that God created all the seed-bearing plants - including the green plants - for man and animal to use as food. Genesis 1:11,29,30. This is very significant since these Scriptures makes it clear that government has no authority to prohibit the people from growing and using cannabis. Cannabis is something God gave to all men as food for their health and well-being. It is a natural right and falls under the right to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness protected in the United States Declaration of Independence. Certainly, a very strong right to adequate medicine must, as commonsense rule, follow from this declaration.
The Bible & Cannabis

Well if Americans would like ...the pursuit of Happiness part, it is the land of the free, I think.
View attachment 16858

However, I believe it is inappropriate to use the Bible to justify the use of weed. The website cited:

....God created all the seed-bearing plants - including the green plants - for man and animal to use as food. Genesis 1:11,29,30. ....

What would be next? The poppy plant?
View attachment 16859
Where Heroine and Morphine comes from?

View attachment 16860
Or the coca plant? Where cocaine comes from?

Sure they are created by God, but I think its proliferation should be controlled for medicinal than recreational purposes. God made the snake:

The snake was the most intelligent of all the wild animals that the Lord God had made. CEB Genesis 3:1

Wouldn't it be horrifying for someone to bring it to school to teach a child a lesson or two?

As long as you use those plants wisely either as food or as medicine, there's no problem. Opium can be used for someone in serious or severe pain. And, cocaine leaves can be chewed for a mild stimulant effect. They are likely nutritious as well.

william7 · Apr 25, 2017

chessplayer said:
IMO

Trusting God and following Him doesn`t go together with alcohol and drug abuse , ( medicinal use , I can`t comment )

The Old testament gives insight into the problems associated with people choosing alternatives expressions of worship , child sacrifice etc.
The Bible indicates that God has made us with the hope that we will freely choose to give our ( limited ) worship to Him . That includes the following ...

1....Love Him above all else , and the rest ( family etc ) will be blessed .
2...Worship Him with our money and allow Him to direct our use of it.

When we put something else before God e.g. addictive drugs , alcohol , pornography money , then we can easily end up sacrificing everything ( money , health , careers , family ) on this altar.

If we spend our money on drug abuse then our families will be affected as will our health !

Personally , I think that if you need a chemical substance to give you pleasure , then its not a real experience , it`s fake , so why start down that road ? !
Medicine , food etc are necessary but the other addictive stuff , we can do without , so why tempt yourself.

You need to read the website. You can use cannabis as medicine without getting high on it. In fact, it's far superior to pharmaceutical drugs which are addictive and dangerous. Cannabis can't kill you, but those drugs the doctor prescribes can and are killing many people.

wizanda · Apr 25, 2017

william7 said:
Opium can be used for someone in serious or severe pain. And, cocaine leaves can be chewed for a mild stimulant effect.

Many of the pharmaceutical painkillers are derivatives from cocaine and opium... The joke of the drug war, is that the corporations want to be the only ones who profit from it.

william7 · Apr 25, 2017

Seablade the Heretic said:
On this particular issue, the bible is relatively clear as to cannabis usage and so is the Constitution, albeit both indirectly.

The bible:

Gen 1:30 - And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Last time I looked, cannabis, along with 1000's of other plants, are all edible, e.g., meat, and provide, in part, some measure of benefit, cannabis included.
If, you're a Christian or of another faith that uses the bible, you cannot escape this fundamental aspect of creation in general: that God gave us every green [plant] for [food]; this would by necessity include cannabis.

The Constitution:

Amendment X: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

This really does answer the question as to the issue of cannabis. The Constitution is silent on this issue since this involves not only personal choice, but an inherit right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" as enumerated in the Declaration of Independence.

For example, a prohibition for the States, under the Constitution, is that they cannot make treaties with other nations. However, there is no prohibition against using or not using any plant matter whatsoever. Therefore, it is not illegal under the Constitution and reserved to you.

It cannot be any clearer. There is no condemnation whatsoever from either the Bible nor the Constitution as to the usage of cannabis as a medicine, or even in a recreational setting. Those interested should really study the history of this plant and why there is such a stigma about it and why it's so vilified by governments.

I agree with you for the most part. However, a serious Bible believer would do well to avoid recreational use and to use the non-psychoactive forms that won't get you high or stoned. Dr. William Courtney best describes how to use it in the video below.

william7 · Apr 25, 2017

wizanda said:
Many of the pharmaceutical painkillers are derivatives from cocaine and opium... The joke of the drug war, is that the corporations want to be the only ones who profit from it.

Yes, and that is why they don't want the competition from cannabis.

The Bible & Cannabis

Would you say that Bible and US Constitution provide a strong right to use cannabis as medicine?

Yes

No

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