leibowde84
Veteran Member
I will wait to reply until you provide your evidence that God is the creator of everything with a beginning (not that God exists based on assuming that God is the creator of everything with a beginning). Good luck!
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Is it possible to talk with an atheist?
- Thread starter Sanmario
- Start date
FWIW
He has consistently ignored and dodged arguments that nothing with objective existence has a real beginning. That is as plain as the nose on his face.
Tom
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Also, he has failed to provide evidence supporting his claim that god is the creator of everything with a beginning.FWIW
He has consistently ignored and dodged arguments that nothing with objective existence has a real beginning. That is as plain as the nose on his face.
Tom
Perhaps you and I could discuss which is the bigger flaw in Sanmario's reasoning. At least then there would be an actual discussion in this thread.
Tom
leibowde84
Veteran Member
I didn't deny it. I am just not accepting it without evidence. What evidence do you have to prove that God is the creator of everything with a beginning? It's not an actual argument if you just demand that we accept it without evidence.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
All I am asking is that you support your argument that God is the creator of everything with a beginning with actual evidence. I do not accept that God is the creator of everything with a beginning just because you demand it. You have to prove your case first. That is how arguments work.
So, again, for the 50th time, what evidence do you have to prove that God is the creator of everything with a beginning? If you cannot support this claim with evidence, please just be honest and admit it.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
You have not presented any evidence supporting your claim that God is the creator of everything with a beginning. I am not going to accept this claim of yours until you provide evidence to support it.
And, btw, a court of law has nothing to do with what we are talking about. You are presenting an argument, not fighting for your freedom. It would be absurd to expect the same rules to apply.
siti
Well-Known Member
All these things are made of matter that was formed (from energy) in the first few seconds after the Big Bang. All of them - and your nose - are made of stuff that is almost 14 billion years old (by current estimates) and that stuff came from the energy that was (somehow) present in the incredibly small space (smaller than an atom they reckon) that has now expanded to the size of the observable universe (about 93 billion light years across). The energy was just there - we have no idea how it got there, how old it might have been, where it came from or whether or not it had a beginning. As far as we know, energy can be neither created nor destroyed - it just is - as far as we can possibly tell, without beginning or end - eternal. But it can be transformed, quite naturally, into matter and back again - and the matter can be transformed into babies, roses and noses - and other things. The matter/energy of which they are made is, as far as we know, eternal, beginning-less and quite possibly endless.
Until you can produce evidence that this is not the case, all you are doing is repeating a baseless, and frankly, puerile, assumption.
siti
Well-Known Member
I already explained this - in posts #97, #285, #295 and #356. Perhaps if you bring yourself to stop speaking through yours, you would be able to understand how mine does not provide any evidence for the universe having a beginning.
siti
Well-Known Member
My apologies - I momentarily forgot your aversion to any real evidence and lack of reading ability.
OK
1. Enunciate the concept of God, namely, in concept God is the creator of my arse.
2. I go to the realm of existence to look for the beginning of my arse.
3. I see everything with my eyes and I experience everything I meet, including my arse, as being made of atoms that emerged from the energy contained within the miniscule universe shortly (a few seconds) after the Big Bang. I also note that we have absolutely no idea where that energy came from. It may very well be eternal - beginningless and possibly endless.
4. So, there is absolutely zero evidence to prove that the matter/energy of which my arse is composed had a beginning.
5. There is, therefore, no evidence whatsoever of God existing in concept as the creator of my arse.
6. Conclusion from evidence: God has absolutely nothing to do with the existence of my arse (or anything else, including @Sanmario's nose).
QED
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siti
Well-Known Member
You have still, 364 posts into this thread, failed to provide a single shred of evidence to show that "all things in the universe" have a beginning. Provide evidence that the matter/energy of which all things in the universe are composed had a beginning.
BTW I am not attempting to derail this thread - If I were a believing Christian, I would definitely be trying to derail this thread by telling you in no uncertain terms to shut the f*** up, and stop embarrassing our religion and our God. But your blatant idiocy is doing more for the cause of atheism (if there even is such a thing as a cause of atheism) than any logical argument I could present. All you have proved so far is that your 'reason' for believing in the preposterous 'concept' of God you have 'enunciated' is utterly devoid of anything resembling reason or anything resembling evidence. I guess I will give up eventually, but for now, I'm happy to let you continue with your inane repetitions and puerile insults - they will only serve to persuade people against belief in a completely outdated and irrational concept of deity - and once they let go of that, they will be open to the more sensible options of either rational belief or rational disbelief. For providing such a stark counterpoint to rational religious discourse, I thank you most sarcastically on behalf of anyone who might find your asinine absurdities effective in freeing them from the shackles of fatuous faith and crass credulity.
Pray continue...
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Sanmario
Active Member
@ALL who have the skill and habit to think on reason grounding themselves on observation as to come to intelligent conclusion.
Quick message to all you guys who read this thread.
Recall that science is into discovering and/or inventing new things or ways and means to doing things: better, faster, and more easily.
And also explaining how things came into existence, like the nose in our face, and siti's arse and fart.
I will be away from the computer for some two hours, in the meantime think about the two roles of science.
Quick message to all you guys who read this thread.
Recall that science is into discovering and/or inventing new things or ways and means to doing things: better, faster, and more easily.
And also explaining how things came into existence, like the nose in our face, and siti's arse and fart.
I will be away from the computer for some two hours, in the meantime think about the two roles of science.
siti
Well-Known Member
I'm not digressing, I am asking the very same question I asked way back in post #65 (my first in this thread)...anyway, since you are now - 360+ posts into a discussion in which you base your "proof" of God's existence on the notion that everything has a beginning - asking for a definition of "beginning" among other things, here goes...
Matter/energy is what everything in the universe is made of. The universe is everything. Time is how we measure the duration of states or processes. Space is what the gap between your ears is filled with and a beginning (of all of that space, time, matter and energy that is the universe aka everything) is what you have so miserably failed to demonstrate.
So, repeating my original question for the eleventy billionth time, what is your evidence to prove that the universe had a beginning?
Matter/energy is what everything in the universe is made of. The universe is everything. Time is how we measure the duration of states or processes. Space is what the gap between your ears is filled with and a beginning (of all of that space, time, matter and energy that is the universe aka everything) is what you have so miserably failed to demonstrate.
So, repeating my original question for the eleventy billionth time, what is your evidence to prove that the universe had a beginning?
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siti
Well-Known Member
Sorry to break this to you, but I think there's only me and you now.
dgirl1986
Big Queer Chesticles!
My big queer chesticles began during puberty.
siti
Well-Known Member
@Sanmario - it doesn't work like that...all the things you have pointed to as things having a beginning are composed of matter and energy. All the material things we can point to - any number of them, let alone four, are composed of matter that emerged from the energy of the universe in the first few seconds after the Big Bang. We have no idea where that energy came from and it may, for all we know, be eternal. There is no way that you can prove otherwise. So it really doesn't matter whether or not I can prove that this or that did not have a beginning, all I need to do is to demonstrate that you cannot prove that they did and I have done exactly that half a dozen times in this thread. There is no evidence to prove that the universe had a beginning. If you want to refute that statement you must present verifiable evidence, or at least a logical argument, to show that the universe did have a beginning. This is precisely what I have been inviting you to do repeatedly and you have consistently failed to do so.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
You aren't answering my question. You are merely assuming that God is the creator of everything with a beginning. I am asking that you provide evidence for this claim before moving on.
What evidence do you have to prove that God is the creator of everything with a beginning?
NOT, that God exists as the creator of everything with a beginning!!! You must prove that God is the creator of everything with a beginning before moving forward with an argument that God exists.