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Is God really THE god?

EtuMalku

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
outlawState said:
Isa 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!"

Moreover the Hebrew word for Lucifer is masculine.
Click to expand...
The term Lucifer didn’t even exist in the Biblical ages, the Old Testament was written primarily in Hebrew, so the word Lucifer could not have been in their language.

It was St. Jerome who placed the word Lucifer into the Bible . . .
Isaiah 14:12 according to the Vulgate translation:
"Et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem : cui benefacitis attendentes quasi lucernæ lucenti in caliginoso donec dies elucescat, et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestries"

The Hebrew translation had the word helel in the place of Lucifer, or rather St. Jerome replaced the word helel with Lucifer. Helel means ‘shining one’.

In 382 AD, Pope Damasus I commissioned St. Jerome to write a revision of the old Latin translation of the Bible. This task was completed sometime during the 5th century AD, and eventually it was considered the official and definite Latin version of the Bible according to the Roman Catholic church. By the 13th century it was considered the Versio Vulgate – the common translation.

Lucifer is a pre‑Christian deity of ancient Roman and Greek mythology. He is mentioned in Publius Ovidius Naso's "Metamorphoses", which was written in 8 B.C.E., Roman poet Virgil mentions him as far back as 29 B.C.E. and as far back as Timaeus by Plato written 360 B.C.E.

There is no Lucifer proper, in the Christian or Hebrew bibles.
 
E

Evie

Active Member
ben d said:
There is a mystical saying.....God can only reveal God to God.

It is actually quite logical when one considers another mystical saying......God is one, nothing separate from God can ever enter into God.

Where is the kingdom of God to be found?
Click to expand...
Jesus answered when asked 'where is the kingdom of God? He said ' the kingdom of God is within you'
 
W

WINDINWATERS

Member
EtuMalku said:
The term Lucifer didn’t even exist in the Biblical ages, the Old Testament was written primarily in Hebrew, so the word Lucifer could not have been in their language.

It was St. Jerome who placed the word Lucifer into the Bible . . .
Isaiah 14:12 according to the Vulgate translation:
"Et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem : cui benefacitis attendentes quasi lucernæ lucenti in caliginoso donec dies elucescat, et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestries"

The Hebrew translation had the word helel in the place of Lucifer, or rather St. Jerome replaced the word helel with Lucifer. Helel means ‘shining one’.

In 382 AD, Pope Damasus I commissioned St. Jerome to write a revision of the old Latin translation of the Bible. This task was completed sometime during the 5th century AD, and eventually it was considered the official and definite Latin version of the Bible according to the Roman Catholic church. By the 13th century it was considered the Versio Vulgate – the common translation.

Lucifer is a pre‑Christian deity of ancient Roman and Greek mythology. He is mentioned in Publius Ovidius Naso's "Metamorphoses", which was written in 8 B.C.E., Roman poet Virgil mentions him as far back as 29 B.C.E. and as far back as Timaeus by Plato written 360 B.C.E.

There is no Lucifer proper, in the Christian or Hebrew bibles.
Click to expand...

I totally agree, Lucifer is a Roman word.
Why did they use it ?
We are still left with this archetype within our cultures.
You will see images of Lucifer[phosphorous] with Vesper and the divine mother in Roman history. You could say that Lucifer is the divine son of the divine mother Lucifer.
Lucifer is a Roman way of saying the shining one.
Helel is used today or though mysteriously not known to many.
 
E

Evie

Active Member
ben d said:
There is a mystical saying.....God can only reveal God to God.

It is actually quite logical when one considers another mystical saying......God is one, nothing separate from God can ever enter into God.

Where is the kingdom of God to be found?
Click to expand...
Jesus answered when asked. Where is the Kingdom of God? 'The Kingdom of God is within you.' Is Luke 17:21. Scripture
 
N

Nigel

Member
Segev Moran said:
How can you know?

Lets say the bible (OT, NT or whatever depiction of Mono-God there is) is true. that indeed these are the words of the one we call God.
Everything we know about God is based on God itself.

Maybe God is not really THE god? rather on of other gods?
Maybe he is actually an evil God and only pretends to be good?

What is one's source of knowing God without any scripture or information that doesn't come from the Entity itself?
Click to expand...

"How can we know?"

Know what? I can't even be sure I exist.

"Lets say the bible...."

No lets not. The bible was hobbled together over the course of more then 400 years and many christian sects even to this day have different ideas about which books in the bible are considered canon. Much of "the words of the one we call God." didn't even make the cut. The reasons for this were more concerned with consistency of narrative and church unity, then spiritual legitimacy.

Furthermore much of the writings in the bible were clearly either based on those of earlier cultures, such as Sumerian, or shared a common origin.

None of this leads me to believe the bible has anything to do with the word of God/s and more to do with social control.

"Maybe God is not really THE god?"

Well first of all in order to know if God is really THE god you have to know that God is really anything at all. And you can't, that is why it is called faith.

Personally I believe GOD is the core of another planet that collided with and lodged inside earth. There is evidence for this but I can not prove it. I just have faith.

"Maybe he is actually an evil God and only pretends to be good?"

This is the most accurate thing you have said. God has been the root cause of the worst atrocities in human history. In fact I'd pick Kali, receiver of human sacrifice, as a less destructive God then the christian one. At least she was honest.

"What is one's source of knowing God without any scripture or information that doesn't come from the Entity itself?"

Well you can not "know" an imaginary man that lives in the sky. Because he doesn't, he is imaginary. As is said before the scripture does not come from the imaginary man in the sky either, just real men here in the real world. So all the scriptures do not come from God. So i guess if you want to know the imaginary sky farther read the scriptures, develop an interesting psychological problem and talk to God directly or delude yourself into thinking your own thoughts are God whispering to you, like pretty much every Christian before you.
 
Ben Dhyan

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Evie said:
Jesus answered when asked. Where is the Kingdom of God? 'The Kingdom of God is within you.' Is Luke 17:21. Scripture
Click to expand...
Correct Evie, we are not separate from God in truth, so the spiritual path is an inward journey, and God is the destination/destiny. The only separation is that between what and who we think we are versus what and who we really are.
 
InChrist

InChrist

Free4ever
Segev Moran said:
How can you know?

Lets say the bible (OT, NT or whatever depiction of Mono-God there is) is true. that indeed these are the words of the one we call God.
Everything we know about God is based on God itself.

Maybe God is not really THE god? rather on of other gods?
Maybe he is actually an evil God and only pretends to be good?

What is one's source of knowing God without any scripture or information that doesn't come from the Entity itself?
Click to expand...
If God is the Creator of everything and so far above our own human ability and comprehension I don't think it is possible to know too much about such God unless this God provides revelation of His Being. Creation itself reveals the power, ability, and creativity of God, but other than that we are clueless without further information.

I think the Bible provides plenty of revelation about God and His involvement in human history. Fulfilled prophecies of the Bible shows that this God revealed is the One true God who alone knows the future because He is outside of time and dwells in the eternal realm.

"Prophecy, which reveals God's plan in advance, is the missing element in all sacred scriptures of the world's religions, because false gods cannot provide it. Prophecy is not to be found in the Koran, the Hindu Vedas, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Book of Mormon, the sayings of Buddha, the writings of Mary Baker Eddy. In contrast, prophecy comprises about 30 percent of the Bible.


Significantly, the God of the Bible identifies Himself as the One who accurately foretells the future and makes certain that it happens as He said it would. In fact, God points to prophecy as the irrefutable evidence of His existence and the authenticity of His Word: "For I am God, and there is none else. ...Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, my counsel shall stand..." (Isa:46:9-10).


There are two major topics of prophecy, both of which must be studied if one is to have any understanding of the Bible: 1) Israel; and 2) the Messiah, who would come to Israel and through her to the world. These two major topics involve specific fulfillments of prophecy that cannot be denied and which prove God's existence."
An Urgent Call To A Serious Faith-Part Thirteen - The Proof Is In the Prophecy
 
soulsurvivor

soulsurvivor

Active Member
Premium Member
Segev Moran said:
Cant see why an all powerful cannot be stupid. ;)

I Didn't assume the NT is written by God. I Specifically mentioned the "tora".
And I don't believe it.. just wondering what makes you believe it?
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An all powerful person can just make himself smart, he would not need to remain stupid.

I thought your initial post said we should assume both OT and NT are the word of God (maybe I misunderstood) and that the source of the knowledge about God is God himself. I did not notice 'tora' anywhere (may it was in the later posts).

I believe in Jesus for many reasons, but his miracles as well as his message would be important ones. No ordinary person will ever say 'love your enemies'. You have to be extraordinary to come up with that.
 
trablano

trablano

Member
I think God is a word we got from the animals. The german term "Gott" anyway is a word we got from cows and it means "my goodness" or something. Maybe it's similar with the word "God". It doesn't really fit to what we think God is. I call God "Alba", and it's the white spirit. There is also spirit of other color. You have to know yourself what God is. We don't speak about a classical god here but about universally present spirit. An alien would perhaps call it a cosmic force. My main true deity is Minerva. The other gods like Zeus, Odin, Allah, Manitou etc exist too. And all deities are benign. But there are different kinds of them. Zeus has a body, Manitou has not.
 
arthra

arthra

Baha'i
Segev Moran said:
I'll take some time to go over it, 10x.
What is a spiritual validation?
Many time people offer claims like the one you just made.
As there are thousands of ideas to what "spiritual" is, would you mind playing this game with me:
Imagine I'm a 6 yo kid. can you please explain me what spiritual is?
Click to expand...

My suggestion is that you take some time to go over it and seek the answers.. when there is striving your heart will work on the answers even after your intellect is tired.. The spiritual bounty will then begin.
 
Robert Landbeck

Robert Landbeck

Member
Segev Moran said:
How can you know?

What is one's source of knowing God without any scripture or information that doesn't come from the Entity itself?
Click to expand...

That big question, that should be at the very heart of religion and the very nature of truth, deserves a bigger answer than history and tradition have provided. But the answer could very well leave tradition staring into the abyss and prove humbling for secular speculation.

"The first wholly new interpretation for two thousand years of the moral teachings of Christ has been published. Radically different from anything else we know of from theology or history, this new teaching is predicated upon the 'promise' of a precise, predefined, predictable and repeatable experience of transcendent omnipotence and called 'the first Resurrection' in the sense that the Resurrection of Jesus was intended to demonstrate Gods' willingness to reveal Himself and intervene directly into the natural world for those obedient to His Command, paving the way for access, by faith, to the power of divine Will and ultimate proof!"

So like it or no, a new religious teaching, testable by faith, meeting all Enlightenment criteria of evidence based causation and definitive proof now exists. Nothing short of an intellectual, moral and religious revolution is getting under way. Trials of this new teaching have started and are open to all. To test or not to test, that is the question and the answer, to be searched for and discovered, could change the course history as we know it. More info at The Final Freedoms
 
RESOLUTION

RESOLUTION

Active Member
EtuMalku said:
Faith is simply lack of objective evidence. Now that you've been telling me what I need to do for the last few posts, it's my turn.

You need to step out of fairytale land, at some point we all realize Santa Claus doesn't really exist, same thing with this imaginary god meme. You have absolutely zero evidence for his existence but a whole lot of hope that he does. An abridged, heavily edited book, written by men in the first place, is all you go on. Which is not enough for most rational people.

Faith does not equal truth.
Click to expand...


Give us a dollar for every time I have heard and read something repeated which thousands have already said.
Learn to think for yourself. Reach your own conclusions rather than adopting everyone who like yourself has never moved from an armchair or from the 'google' button to learn
about faith and the world today, Go look what is happening in the world regarding faith. You could 'google' it, but would you believe it? So go and look. Truth is, if you look
you won't be left with any excuses.
 
RESOLUTION

RESOLUTION

Active Member
Segev Moran said:
I Can't accept that.
You point me to the bible in order to get answers, yet the bible is a book that have so many interpolations to each of ifs sentences.
Why can't you briefly explain you pov?
Click to expand...
It would be useless to explain a point of view to the uneducated mind.
The first point of truth about the bible is that it was given by God and inspired in men by his Spirit.
So until you have the ability and the tools to understand no one can teach you something you cannot ever hope to know.
 
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