Interestingly replying to this just made me realize something, the problem of comprehension is where people place their optimism.
So for example... Rabbinic Judaism places it on a 3rd temple, and in the hopes of a restoration to the times of David.
Christians think here is Hell controlled by the Devil, and thus look for a savoir from this world.
etc...
Realism is what we need for sure. However humanity has come a long way and it hasn't all been doom and gloom. In fact there have been profound social changes in the last one hundred years. We have greater equality between men and women, the oneness of humanity universally recognised despite race, nationality, and dare I say religion, much more of a global awareness, higher levels of education, and the rise of democratic institutions of governance rather than the empires of old. Slavery has been systematically abolished and technology has enabled us as two strangers to have this conversation. You can tell me about all the corruption, exploitation, materialism etc and that is a reality too.
Yet what about just reading the text unbiasedly, based on what is specifies, like I'd love the prophecy to be how I'd like the future step by step; yet it isn't...
It states it shall be like a roller-coaster; then each group with their own optimisms paint the roller-coaster as different things, such as an old fashion steam train, and claim we won't notice the difference, whilst a lot of the passengers are being sick.
So for instance that is the Jews in the Christian steam train version; whilst the Jews try to paint it as an exclusive horse and roller (even more old fashion than a steamroller), going back thousands of years to a point of barbarism, for the sake of returning some expectation, yet with the wrong aspects....
We all have assumptions. Should we interpret all scripture literally? Perhaps the best starting point when approaching the so called apocalyptic scriptures is to consider those we know have been fulfilled to some extent. Examples of this are the extensive prophecies that Jesus fulfilled as compared to those He didn't, the book of Daniel in regards to various empires, and best of all from a Christian perspective the words of Jesus Himself, when spoken on Mount Olives.
Fair enough Isaiah 1:26 says God will restore 'the Judges of old', it is in the context of their righteousness, and even their souls resurrecting, not just their practices.
Anyways to make a long story short; the hope (optimism presented within the Biblical text alone) is within all prophetic fulfillment, that all the workers of iniquity are removed this time for good...
As the flood was a first attempt, this time is to make sure by setting a snare/inception to catch out those that would swear falsely, and those that steal what isn't theirs; plus to remove all the ravenous beings in one go.
Now fair enough my optimism was as a musician; yet I've either got to be serious and say, 'what does God really want' or just make it up, and pretend none of it is real.
So consider Jesus prophetic words as he speaks of the destruction of the temple, the terrible things that will befall the Jewish people, the floods and earthquakes, the great tribulation etc. It all applied to what actually happened to the Jewish peoples and the end of an era of Judaism with the temple and Jerusalem as its centre. He spoke of difficulties for the rise of the church, but also used this as a metaphor for events in the far off future....now! The gospels were preached at all nations, and the diaspora eventually ended.
Yes, and it makes you a likeable person, and agree that challenging people's conceptions causes conflict....
Decided to myself, 'blood is thicker than water, spirit is stronger than flesh', thus I've either got to stand by the truth, even if I'm standing alone or join a world destined for Hell.
It just makes it easier to have conversations when we can find common ground. I had a period of about 2 1/2 years where I took time to watch the wheels of the world go by and make sense of it all. I think all the prophets have had a period of reflection before their message. I'm not a prophet, just an ordinary man.
Sorry should have maybe put Zionist, as some of them statements were from a BBC documentary on Zionists, who really believe that each Jew will have 10-20 Goyim slaves when the Messiah comes, and makes them rulers of the world.
Personally have Jewish genealogy; just shocked by their Rabbinic teachings being so bigoted, and racist.
It sounds like familiarity breeds contempt. I haven't had too much to do with Jews so they are somewhat of an unknown quantity to me. I think secularisation in some ways has resulting in peoples of all faiths moving away from such extreme positions. It has happened in the West with Christianity and eventually Islam will have the same experience as with Judaism. That's a doubled edged sword as on one hand people move away from religious extremism, on the other a movement away from religion, period. The problem is the religions of old seem less and less relevant in a modern world.
Did you read 'Isaiah 24 & Isaiah 34 is the 6th seal of the Tribulation'...
People are about to cause complete annihilation (WW3, biosphere overload, there is nuclear radiation flooding the pacific, etc), thus at its peak, when all nations fight against Israel God steps in, this then causes earthquakes, whirlwinds, hail, thunder, lightening, and a holy fire that consumes all evil in its path.
Then God resets earth, and the remnant who are here after all that Tribulation, have been chosen to be Saints of the Most High for ever.
Yes I did read about the sixth seal and that's why I discussed just one aspect, the reference to the sun, moon, and stars that is a reference also to Isaiah and to Matthew 24. I think it is all just echoing the 10 plagues that the Egyptians suffered. Were the Egyptians wiped out? No. Will we suffer? Yes. Are we suffering now? Yes.
In regards to revelation 14:1
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
The lamb is the Messiah.
The 144,000 are His followers from all lands and tribes. I think of the twelve tribes of Israel times another twelve representing all the tribes of the earth, times a thousand representing a great multitude. They don't have their Father's names literally written on their foreheads but the law or Tanakh written in their hearts (Jeremiah 31:34) and by their words and deeds are clearly associated with the Messiah for all to see.
The Mount Zion is the New Covenant the Messiah brings, which His followers are following. They are not all literally standing on Mount Zion on the outskirts of Jerusalem.
So not literal, metaphorical and happening as we speak.