How are these Great Beings explained?

Carlita said:

He didn't come back again. He only came once as flesh. Christians say he will come back in the future.

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Again, Christians, instead of getting their information from Christ Himself, rely in their imperfect interpretation of the Bible so missed His Second Coming entirely and are still waiting for an event which has already come to pass.

Christ said He would come as a thief.

Revelation 16:15

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Christianity didn't 'watch' and got caught out. The garments they lost are the garments of true belief for they walk around now proclaiming belief in Christ but having rejected Him when He returned.

loverofhumanity said:

This is what we believe..

Bahá’u’lláh Conversed with Moses in the Burning Bush

“Bahá’u’lláh is not the Intermediary between other Manifestations and God. Each has His own relation to the Primal Source. But in the sense that Bahá’u’lláh is the greatest Manifestation to yet appear, the One Who consummates the Revelation of Moses; He was the One Moses conversed with in the Burning Bush. In other words Bahá’u’lláh identifies the glory of the Godhead on that occasion with Himself. No distinction can be made amongst the Prophets in the sense that They all proceed from One Source, and are of One Essence. But Their stations and functions in this world are different.”
(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, October 19, 1947)

“ The people of the world are now hearing that which Moses did hear, but they understand not.” (Baha’u’llah, Tablets of Baha’u’llah, p. 265)

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It occurred to me that there is a possibility that ALL RELIGIOUS beliefs exist for a reason known only to God Himself. And that 'reason' may not be the obvious one. Would an Omnipotent God, from everlasting to everlasting, categorise Himself in the limited area of Religion? Religions come and go . With Religions striving to be recognised as the one possessing the truth, such a possibility as one reason common to all could be something to consider.

loverofhumanity said:

“Bahá’u’lláh is not the Intermediary between other Manifestations and God

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But he has a higher rank than other prophets. So, I don't see how that's different than being an intermediary when you use his words and others to interpret other religions teachings.

loverofhumanity said:

Each has His own relation to the Primal Source.

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Yes, and should be respected for that, right?....

loverofhumanity said:

But in the sense that Bahá’u’lláh is the greatest Manifestation to yet appear, the One Who consummates the Revelation of Moses; He was the One Moses conversed with in the Burning Bush. In other words Bahá’u’lláh identifies the glory of the Godhead on that occasion with Himself.

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Wait, are you saying Moses conversed with Bahaullah? and Bahaullah was behind the burning bush? or Moses talked with Bahaullah as Bahallah has a divinity or special relationship with the creator the other prophets don't have in full?

If you're talking about Christianity rather than Bahai, it says Moses talked with god who named himself I AM. More so, god to jews do not have any person as even close to being a representative, connection, manifestation of, or god in flesh of, of the creator.

loverofhumanity said:

No distinction can be made amongst the Prophets in the sense that They all proceed from One Source, and are of One Essence. But Their stations and functions in this world are different.”

Click to expand...

This is false if you are actually talking about Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Zoaraistism.

If not going by these religious perspectives (and not listening to the people who practice it now) then what you are believing are not any of these religions.

If all prophets lead to one source, Bahaullah shouldn't be any different than Moses and Jesus because in all other fathers, the creator is the highest and only in mainstream christianity and bahai that the creator has some relation to a human being more than just a human prophet.

But since each have their Primal Source (their Truth ) they cannot at the same time be of one essence and still call these religions christianity, judaism, etc.

Don't depend on the Bible then because it has been chosen by the Church, reinterpreted, taken a part, in many languages, and Christ didn't even finger a word in the whole entire book.

However, give christians the credit of their belief because if you are claiming their belief is part of your belief, you have to accept what you call their misinterpretations as their correct ones. That's respect, at least give them the decency that they know more about their faith than you.

loverofhumanity said:

Again, Christians, instead of getting their information from Christ Himself, rely in their imperfect interpretation of the Bible so missed His Second Coming entirely and are still waiting for an event which has already come to pass.

Christ said He would come as a thief.

Revelation 16:15

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Christianity didn't 'watch' and got caught out. The garments they lost are the garments of true belief for they walk around now proclaiming belief in Christ but having rejected Him when He returned.

Click to expand...

Christ existed with his father in the OT. In the NT, god made his message/word flesh as a person or Jesus. (The first coming), jesus left and came in spirit to reassure his disciples that he "hasn't gone and he will return." Then revelations (and other books) predict his actual coming the second time to waken believers to be judged and reject those who didn't believe in his father.

Since you are not christian, how can you judge what other christians believe when they know more about their belief, experience, and scripture than you do beyond quoting and ex-experiences?

W

Carlita said:

Don't depend on the Bible then because it has been chosen by the Church, reinterpreted, taken a part, in many languages, and Christ didn't even finger a word in the whole entire book.

However, give christians the credit of their belief because if you are claiming their belief is part of your belief, you have to accept what you call their misinterpretations as their correct ones. That's respect, at least give them the decency that they know more about their faith than you.



Christ existed with his father in the OT. In the NT, god made his message/word flesh as a person or Jesus. (The first coming), jesus left and came in spirit to reassure his disciples that he "hasn't gone and he will return." Then revelations (and other books) predict his actual coming the second time to waken believers to be judged and reject those who didn't believe in his father.

Since you are not christian, how can you judge what other christians believe when they know more about their belief, experience, and scripture than you do beyond quoting and ex-experiences?

Click to expand...

d

Carlita said:

But he has a higher rank than other prophets. So, I don't see how that's different than being an intermediary when you use his words and others to interpret other religions teachings.



Yes, and should be respected for that, right?....



Wait, are you saying Moses conversed with Bahaullah? and Bahaullah was behind the burning bush? or Moses talked with Bahaullah as Bahallah has a divinity or special relationship with the creator the other prophets don't have in full?

If you're talking about Christianity rather than Bahai, it says Moses talked with god who named himself I AM. More so, god to jews do not have any person as even close to being a representative, connection, manifestation of, or god in flesh of, of the creator.



This is false if you are actually talking about Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Zoaraistism.

If not going by these religious perspectives (and not listening to the people who practice it now) then what you are believing are not any of these religions.

If all prophets lead to one source, Bahaullah shouldn't be any different than Moses and Jesus because in all other fathers, the creator is the highest and only in mainstream christianity and bahai that the creator has some relation to a human being more than just a human prophet.

But since each have their Primal Source (their Truth ) they cannot at the same time be of one essence and still call these religions christianity, judaism, etc.

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Doesn't it all boil down to who believes what? No absolute proof of anything that has just been put forward. My question is: WHY is there no proof? Which brings me back to what I considered a possibility. That ALL RELIGIOUS beliefs exist for a reason known only to God. A reason which may not be the obvious reason. And God did not name Himself. RELIGION.

Evie said:

W
d

Doesn't it all boil down to who believes what? No absolute proof of anything that has just been put forward. My question is: WHY is there no proof? Which brings me back to what I considered a possibility. That ALL RELIGIOUS beliefs exist for a reason known only to God. A reason which may not be the obvious reason. And God did not name Himself. RELIGION.

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Religion just defines people's traditions, language, and culture in relationship with their beliefs and spirituality. Christ taught that deeds are more important than just faith. (James 2:16-18) God is a religion since TLC defines god not the other way around in my opinion.

Does there have to be proof? Why not accept religions are isolated because of differing countries, era, and languages? Not all are under god and others arent under the same god(s).

Carlita said:

Religion just defines people's traditions, language, and culture in relationship with their beliefs and spirituality. Christ taught that deeds are more important than just faith. (James 2:16-18) God is a religion since TLC defines god not the other way around in my opinion.

Does there have to be proof? Why not accept religions are isolated because of differing countries, era, and languages? Not all are under god and others arent under the same god(s).

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But they are all under the one flag of religious beliefs. And the possibility of there being a reason for their existence which may or may not be the obvious. It IS possible.

Evie said:

But they are all under the one flag of religious beliefs. And the possibility of there being a reason for their existence which may or may not be the obvious. It IS possible.

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Religions (with an -s) just means there are more than one collection of TLCs that in english we define as religion. In other countries, the concept would most likely be different. I read that in other countries outside America, religion TLC isnt separates from life. Its all embedded that to ask "what is your religion?" Is asking how they decern for themselves their spirituality from their life.

The reason behind their existence is clear as day. If I told two children to draw a tree and put them on either side of the room with their peers, they will draw different trees. A bahai may say because its a tree, its the same essense when it isnt because what I see as a tree could be anyhing to that one child and I cant say they are wrong and consult another book to interpret their drawings correctly.

But outside of just being human, what other reason would you need to explain how multiple religions exist or is there another layer to this question Im not quite getting?

Carlita said:

Religion just defines people's traditions, language, and culture in relationship with their beliefs and spirituality. Christ taught that deeds are more important than just faith. (James 2:16-18) God is a religion since TLC defines god not the other way around in my opinion.

Does there have to be proof? Why not accept religions are isolated because of differing countries, era, and languages? Not all are under god and others arent under the same god(s).

Click to expand...

That does not explain why they try to claim dominance. As in 'my religion is right and yours is wrong. People killing each other for no other reason than differing religious beliefs. There has to be a reason for such a scenario to exist in the existence of mankind.

C

Carlita said:

Religions (with an -s) just means there are more than one collection of TLCs that in english we define as religion. In other countries, the concept would most likely be different. I read that in other countries outside America, religion TLC isnt separates from life. Its all embedded that to ask "what is your religion?" Is asking how they decern for themselves their spirituality from their life.

The reason behind their existence is clear as day. If I told two children to draw a tree and put them on either side of the room with their peers, they will draw different trees. A bahai may say because its a tree, its the same essense when it isnt because what I see as a tree could be anyhing to that one child and I cant say they are wrong and consult another book to interpret their drawings correctly.

But outside of just being human, what other reason would you need to explain how multiple religions exist or is there another layer to this question Im not quite getting?

Click to expand...

Evie said:

That does not explain why they try to claim dominance. As in 'my religion is right and yours is wrong. People killing each other for no other reason than differing religious beliefs. There has to be a reason for such a scenario to exist in the existence of mankind.

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Consider the fact that even within the same denominational church, there exists differences of opinion as to what is the correct interpretation of scripture. And such differences of opinion as to who is right and who is wrong can, and often does descend into verbal and physical abuse. And think !!!! They are in the very same church and cannot agree. This, to my mind, is something to question.

Evie said:

That does not explain why they try to claim dominance. As in 'my religion is right and yours is wrong. People killing each other for no other reason than differing religious beliefs. There has to be a reason for such a scenario to exist in the existence of mankind.

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People do things in the name of their religions. Religions do nothing in and of itself. Christianity claims a lot more authority than a lot of religions. My thing is why be part of a religion that has a my vs.you belief? It does not mean you personally will kill someone because you disagree with them. Just means by taking up that mindset, christians are no different than each other whether they kill or not.

Maybe change the religion or if the bible dont follow gods examples but just benefit from the results: justice, passion, sacrifice. But christianity and islam does a whole lot of mental and physical damage.

Why be part of a religion like that if it is the religion and not the people?

Evie said:

Consider the fact that even within the same denominational church, there exists differences of opinion as to what is the correct interpretation of scripture. And such differences of opinion as to who is right and who is wrong can, and often does descend into verbal and physical abuse. And think !!!! They are in the very same church and cannot agree. This, to my mind, is something to question.

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Thats what makes me think out of all the interpretations of scripture and opinions of christians why would anyone consider christianity (for example) as any universal truth that other religions fall under?

Thats like putting multiple cities on a broken foundation instead of not colonizing and let each religion grow on their own. Christianity had a hand in a lot of things people blame on "other religions." While they may be the victim, just by being christian you become the abuser.

Evie said:

It occurred to me that there is a possibility that ALL RELIGIOUS beliefs exist for a reason known only to God Himself. And that 'reason' may not be the obvious one. Would an Omnipotent God, from everlasting to everlasting, categorise Himself in the limited area of Religion? Religions come and go . With Religions striving to be recognised as the one possessing the truth, such a possibility as one reason common to all could be something to consider.

Click to expand...

Our understanding is all the major religions come from the same God as does science. All truth comes from God.

And also we believe that God sends each Prophet with a specific mission for each age and that for today He has sent Baha'u'llah to establish the unity of humankind and the unity of religion. After Baha'u'llah will come other Messengers with different missions involving maybe other planets. But for now, we believe that for the next 1,0000 years humanity can only move forward, establish peace and harmony turning to the teachings of Baha'u'llah which Centre around legalizing the oneness of humanity in all aspects of human life.

Evie said:

That does not explain why they try to claim dominance. As in 'my religion is right and yours is wrong. People killing each other for no other reason than differing religious beliefs. There has to be a reason for such a scenario to exist in the existence of mankind.

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When religion starts killing in the name of religion, it is no longer religion but an imposter in its place.

Carlita said:

Don't depend on the Bible then because it has been chosen by the Church, reinterpreted, taken a part, in many languages, and Christ didn't even finger a word in the whole entire book.

However, give christians the credit of their belief because if you are claiming their belief is part of your belief, you have to accept what you call their misinterpretations as their correct ones. That's respect, at least give them the decency that they know more about their faith than you.



Christ existed with his father in the OT. In the NT, god made his message/word flesh as a person or Jesus. (The first coming), jesus left and came in spirit to reassure his disciples that he "hasn't gone and he will return." Then revelations (and other books) predict his actual coming the second time to waken believers to be judged and reject those who didn't believe in his father.

Since you are not christian, how can you judge what other christians believe when they know more about their belief, experience, and scripture than you do beyond quoting and ex-experiences?

Click to expand...

I would argue that I am a true Christian because I have accepted both the first AND second coming of Jesus while Christians accepted His first coming then closed the door in His Face when He returned.

To reject Christ's return is to reject His first coming also.

They weren't around when Christ came so how do they say Baha'u'llah is not His return? Only they go by the interpretation of their priests like the Jews did and they were dead wrong.

This is our belief that Christians have the chance now to prove their faithfulness to Christ. If a name is going to make all that much difference even in Revelation Christ said He would come with a 'new name' so they should be ready to accept new things and not cling to old traditions which they have been told will all be renewed "all things will be made new" (Revelation)

When the new comes we need to learn to moved on and not crucify humanity just so we can go on saying we are the only ones. It's pointless saying we are better or superior or Christ is the only way while there is no peace in this world .

The world is crying out for action and deeds not more rhetoric claiming superiority. The world wants and needs reconciliation and an end to hatred and wars amongst religions and the only way to do this is to drop our preconceived ideas and unite together for the betterment of humanity. Otherwise religion is useless and pointless if all it seeks to do is prove it is better than other religions. Just another coke vs Pepsi argument.

S

loverofhumanity said:

I would argue that I am a true Christian because I have accepted both the first AND second coming of Jesus while Christians accepted His first coming then closed the door in His Face when He returned.

To reject Christ's return is to reject His first coming also.

They weren't around when Christ came so how do they say Baha'u'llah is not His return? Only they go by the interpretation of their priests like the Jews did and they were dead wrong.

This is our belief that Christians have the chance now to prove their faithfulness to Christ. If a name is going to make all that much difference even in Revelation Christ said He would come with a 'new name' so they should be ready to accept new things and not cling to old traditions which they have been told will all be renewed "all things will be made new" (Revelation)

When the new comes we need to learn to moved on and not crucify humanity just so we can go on saying we are the only ones. It's pointless saying we are better or superior or Christ is the only way while there is no peace in this world .

The world is crying out for action and deeds not more rhetoric claiming superiority. The world wants and needs reconciliation and an end to hatred and wars amongst religions and the only way to do this is to drop our preconceived ideas and unite together for the betterment of humanity. Otherwise religion is useless and pointless if all it seeks to do is prove it is better than other religions. Just another coke vs Pepsi argument.

Click to expand...

Suppose the bottle of coke and the bottle of Pepsi are different in colour. But the drink inside both bottles is exactly the same. However, some people are more drawn to one colour than the other and visa versa. Are religions a variety of different presentations, but their essence, their reason for existence, is exactly the same?

Carlita said:

But he has a higher rank than other prophets. So, I don't see how that's different than being an intermediary when you use his words and others to interpret other religions teachings.



Yes, and should be respected for that, right?....



Wait, are you saying Moses conversed with Bahaullah? and Bahaullah was behind the burning bush? or Moses talked with Bahaullah as Bahallah has a divinity or special relationship with the creator the other prophets don't have in full?

If you're talking about Christianity rather than Bahai, it says Moses talked with god who named himself I AM. More so, god to jews do not have any person as even close to being a representative, connection, manifestation of, or god in flesh of, of the creator.



This is false if you are actually talking about Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Zoaraistism.

If not going by these religious perspectives (and not listening to the people who practice it now) then what you are believing are not any of these religions.

If all prophets lead to one source, Bahaullah shouldn't be any different than Moses and Jesus because in all other fathers, the creator is the highest and only in mainstream christianity and bahai that the creator has some relation to a human being more than just a human prophet.

But since each have their Primal Source (their Truth ) they cannot at the same time be of one essence and still call these religions christianity, judaism, etc.

Click to expand...

The purpose of religion is to unite and bring love and peace amongst people. For long now religionists have forgotten this and all they focus on is meaningless theological discussion which is fruitless and divisive. The religionists of today do no longer, in general, understand their religion as they agree to separation, disunity, sectarianism, conflict as if it is a normal part of life. They have gradually come to accept the corruption of their religion as 'normal. This is the situation Baha'u'llah has come to remedy, He says it is not normal, that religionists have gone away from their roots and that this is the reason and cause we have so much strife in the world and He is right. With billions of religious people why no peace or unity? Why the millions starving and wars and poverty? Clearly all is norpt as it seems outwardly.

All the Prophets came for unity andlove and when their message began to lose its influence God sent another Messenger to renew the spirit of love and affection between people.

All the Prophets are one and know each other. As it says Baha'u'llah spoke to Moses in the Burning Bush. Moses knew Who Baha'u'llah was and today we can all hear the Voice of God through Baha'u'llah. The Voice is the same although the human channel ore instrument is different.

But those who cling to outward appearances fail to recognize the inner Voice of God within each Manifestation is the same.

The missions of each religion and its laws were tailored to meet the needs of each age but in essence they all came from the same one God.

It was Baha'u'llah in the Burning Bush Who spoke to Moses.

Baha'u'llah comes in the station of the 'Father'. So often Baha'u'llah will say He is God. What He means is that He has come in the station or role of God not that He is God in essence.

Baha'u'llah was given authority by God to speak to humanity direct as if He Himself was God but in many Tablets He made it clear that He was only speaking as prompted not of His own volition.

When I contemplate, O my God, the relationship that bindeth me to Thee, I am moved to proclaim to all created things ‘verily I am God!’; and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!”


I am the royal Falcon on the arm of the Almighty. I unfold the drooping wings of every broken bird and start it on its flight.
(Baha'u'llah)

Evie said:

S
Suppose the bottle of coke and the bottle of Pepsi are different in colour. But the drink inside both bottles is exactly the same. However, some people are more drawn to one colour than the other and visa versa. Are religions a variety of different presentations, but their essence, their reason for existence, is exactly the same?

Click to expand...

Hi Evie. I didn't say that I enjoy reading your posts. I should mention that now. Whichever is right or wrong, unity and love must come first so I'll try as much as I can to be nice but sometimes I'm too frank so please forgive me as that's more bad style than wanting to deliberately upset someone.

I agree with you that the essence is the same. Even more reason why we should all to go to each other's churches, read each other's Holy Books, work together for world peace and become as one religion.

A united army has more chance than a divided one and in this case to conquer the ungodliness in the world we believe the religions must be united for so long as they remain divided it allows the ungodly to rule the world even though supposedly religionists are in the majority,

By coming together we can accomplish much more than as a group divided amongst itself. There is no need to have the duplicity of thousands of differing sects. All we need is all humanity working together for the betterment of all.

Carlita said:

Don't depend on the Bible then because it has been chosen by the Church, reinterpreted, taken a part, in many languages, and Christ didn't even finger a word in the whole entire book.

However, give christians the credit of their belief because if you are claiming their belief is part of your belief, you have to accept what you call their misinterpretations as their correct ones. That's respect, at least give them the decency that they know more about their faith than you.



Christ existed with his father in the OT. In the NT, god made his message/word flesh as a person or Jesus. (The first coming), jesus left and came in spirit to reassure his disciples that he "hasn't gone and he will return." Then revelations (and other books) predict his actual coming the second time to waken believers to be judged and reject those who didn't believe in his father.

Since you are not christian, how can you judge what other christians believe when they know more about their belief, experience, and scripture than you do beyond quoting and ex-experiences?

Click to expand...

Hi Carlita. You said you paint? Maybe you could share some of your art with us? Anyway just wanted to let you know whatever I say it's just my opinion and I like you and think you're very nice and thank you for all our talks together.

I know often I've frustrated you because of my different understanding but the bottom line for me is I think you're really a very decent and nice person and even though I do get on your nerves often I do love debating with you.

You really are one of the most patient people I've come across. I really admire patience and people I think who are patient are most deserving.

I really hope life blesses you with the very best in everything.

Just a break in normal communications to remind you that I see and appreciate the humanity in you. I don't want debating to take my focus of that.