I
I am not a Bahai I don't even know what that is. I am simply a believer.
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How important is your ancestry in paganism?
- Thread starter Lorgar-Aurelian
- Start date
Frolicking_Fox
Artemis, Athena, and Buddha. Anarcho-Communist.
I'm a Hellenic Pagan, as my ancestors were Greek. At a younger age when I strayed away from monotheism, I was really interested in Egyptian Mythology, and even Japanese, but for some reason, I stuck with Hellenism. I have a thought that maybe our blood draws us towards something that links us to our ancestors.
No, it doesn't. That's pseudo-science.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
I've had much the same thought. That it doesn't so much force us or determine what we should be, but that there is an ancestral cultural inclination.
Callisto
Hellenismos, BTW
I would ask those persons, "Worship the gods of which ancestors?" Every person today has literally thousands of ancestors from whom they're directly descended. Going back just 10 generations one's ancestors number over 1,000. All through history tribes and populations continually emigrated and immigrated, fought and died off or assimilated, one group replacing another in the same region, not to mention syncretism time and again. Being from a given region does not necessarily mean one's family originated there but likely migrated for any number of reasons. Most Westerners certainly cannot claim any kind of purity.
I've done a fair amount of genealogical research on my biracial heritage. So far, the European side of my family I've traced back to the 10th century, the African side back only a couple of hundred years. Per those individuals, which gods should I worship?
And what should one do if they're adopted and know nothing of their birth family? Not to mention, without complete records, there's no way for anyone to know of breaks in their own bloodline - direct ancestor(s) who were adopted but those details lost.
Exactly. So much for "call of the blood" arguments.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
I think it's quite inaccurate to say that we've got thousands of ancestors that we're directly related to. I am directly related to only two; my mother and father. Human genetics may be diverse, but we're not talking about genetics when talking about "call of the blood" - as it's been dubbed here. We're talking about cultural ancestry. For instance, regardless what ethnicity my ancestors are, my family lineage is primarily German and Anglo-Saxon.
Not to mention those fathered by someone other than the official father...
and those for whom no records were kept...
Callisto
Hellenismos, BTW
What's to prevent you from erecting a family shrine for ancestor worship? Most people today don't live anywhere near their ancestors' places of origins, or near more recent relatives for that matter. Our ancestors had to become acquainted with the land and spirits local to them, I don't see that being much different than what one endeavors to do today.
Callisto
Hellenismos, BTW
But which ones, not all ancient European practices were the same? And what about those whose ancestors aren't solely European?
Callisto
Hellenismos, BTW
Exactly.
Callisto
Hellenismos, BTW
Besides throughout the centuries, many gods were worshiped in various lands by different peoples beyond their places of origin.
Callisto
Hellenismos, BTW
In genealogy, direct descent means who begat whom. You and your parents would not be here if not for your grandparents, none of whom would have existed if not for your great grandparents. It doesn't matter to you coming into existence if any of those past generations had siblings or whether those siblings lived to adulthood or had children, you exist because you are directly downline from generations of grandparents. That's what facilitates talking about a call of the blood and connecting that to an ethnic identity.
I've certainly considered it, but haven't figured out what would be the best way to set it up...and given my current condition (permanent headache, memory issues, problems paying attention and staying on task, and so on....what was I talking about?
), it's difficult to do much communing with ANY of the spirits, much less focus on my ancestors...
Callisto
Hellenismos, BTW
True, e.g. the House of Windsor turns a blind eye to the likelihood of Harry's parentage.
Politesse
Amor Vincit Omnia
It's everything. Or almost everything. My faith life to me is very much about honoring the knowledge and responsibilities I have inherited from all of my ancestors and forebears, those of blood and those of land and those of history. This responsibility is what drives much of my activity, and morally grounds even my secular work.
But that isn't an exclusivist thing, only a matter of general motivation. I do believe in honoring and worshipping all deities; we're all family, and religious racism is beyond idiotic to me. I think it is silly and hypocritical when Pagans say you must only worship gods whom you know of a blood connection to - but who disdain Christianity and Islam, or who believe in reincarnation and thus an entirely different sort of ancestry. Even if one does not do those things, well... 'tis a wise man who knows his own father. Better to play it safe when it comes to honoring or spurning "foreign" deities, in my opinion.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Ah, I gotcha. Still yet, aside from racists who base it all off skin color, what I was getting at - I prefer "Ancestral Call" - is that the culture of one's ancestors is what possibly drives a person; heritage, not biology. And while cultures do change and evolve over time, there is a constant that ends up remaining.
Callisto
Hellenismos, BTW
Well, the problem with trying to judge based on skin color is that one doesn't always fit the stereotype. I'm mixed and am essentially an "ethnic chameleon" and frequently assumed to be one thing or another depending on where I am. LOL
In terms of the US, it's a melting pot and most people and places are a mixture of multiple heritages. Even those areas with a strong ethnic identity still have absorbed influences from the rest of society.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Oh I know; I'm saying the race-based is wrong and practically impossible.
I want to take your quote, @Politesse , and expand on this a bit: we have responsibilities for others in the now, and our descendants in the future, as well as ourselves. It seems like in American culture, regardless of creed, origins, or any other factor, there seems to be little concern about the future generations, and little concern about others beyond the immediate family--if that far out from the self...
It's something I've troubled myself with for most of my life, and I still don't see how to work Those Who Are Not Here and Now, and Those Who Will Come After into my rituals and activities. Certainly those who came before deserve recognition and honor, but somehow I/we also need to recognize and honor those not here, and those who will be later.
I wonder if many cultures, especially indigenous peoples, manage to do this, or is it really as it seems to me, that almost no one does.