How can this possibly be squared with either
Almighty God formed us.
We are all born with a sinful nature.
I don't think that they can.
Tom
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Does god want everyone to be saved?
- Thread starter dandbj13
- Start date
Almighty God formed us.
We are all born with a sinful nature.
I don't think that they can.
Tom
Well, we disagree.
My understanding is that the Bible teaches we need to be saved ( rescued/ delivered ) from enemy death.
We can Not resurrect oneself or another, so we need someone to resurrect us.
To me, the correct Christian ( biblical ) view of hell is: the Bible's hell is simply man's temporary grave.
Jesus taught 'sleep in death' according to John 11:11-14, so while dead Jesus was in hell, then Jesus was in a sleep-like state until God resurrected the dead Jesus out of biblical hell. - Acts of the Apostles 2:27; 3:15.
Jesus teaching is in harmony with the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach unconscious sleep in death:
- Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Jesus now has keys to unlock biblical hell according to Revelation 1:18 so biblical hell is Not eternal.
The Bible's hell ends up empty. After everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up' ( resurrected ) out of temporary hell, then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell - Revelation 20:13-14
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Be careful r.e. RF's proselytising rules, friend.
Did you ever see, or picture, a cookie cutter with a dent in it. Each and every cookie comes out dented.
Once humanly perfect Adam and Eve corrupted themselves ( broke God's Law ) they were like dented cookie cutters.
In my view, they passed on to us their defect, and we being imperfect ( dented so to speak ) can Not fix ourselves.
If we could acquire human perfection on our own we would Not need someone to help ( un-dent ) us.
God sent heavenly (un-dented) Jesus to be a corresponding ransom for us and undo what father Adam brought up us.
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How can I otherwise show where the Scripture I am referring to is located and that I am Not saying something Not found in Scripture.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
More I read into this thread and read the exchanges of people's views and convictions, it dosent actually seem to be a matter of God wanting to save everyone anymore, but rather, it's really all about those who want to be saved by a God themselves.
In my view, a lot of people disagree with what the Bible really teaches. Including the corrupted clergy of Christendom.
They often teach church traditions, or church customs, as Scripture although Not really Scripture.
Especially when the un-faithful Jews began mixing with the Greeks they adopted their theories and philosophies and began to teach them as Scripture although Not really found in Scripture, as even Jesus taught at Matthew chapter 15 and verse 9.
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dandbj13
Member
That sound right. Thanks.
Interesting way of saying the ^ above ^. I can say that it's really all about those who want to be saved by God.
That is why Zephaniah chapter 2 verse 3 says to seek God ( the seeking would be on our part )
There are conditions to be met mentioned there in verse 3 and then probably or maybe we can be saved.
To me, the probably or the maybe is on our part and Not on God's part. I think the choice is ours to make,
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Qualify things with 'in my view', 'as far as I understand things', 'as I see things', 'in my understanding of the Bible's teachings, based on my view of the Bible's nature'...
In my view, God created the heavenly Satan as a perfect cherub angel.
Later Satan corrupted himself according to James 1:13-15.
Since corrupted Satan turned himself into a Satan and a Devil, then wicked Satan will be destroyed forever along with all who prove themselves to be wicked according to Psalms 92:7.
I understand that Abel will have a future resurrection with the rest of those faithful mentioned at Hebrews chapter 11.
That is why Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the ' future tense ' that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection........
That future resurrection will take place during Jesus' coming millennium-long day of governing over Earth.
Yes as I was about to do by asserting that everyone is already and forever will be saved from the bondage of the self, but some will realize this sooner and others later. And, as a side note, I'm using "realize" not in the intellectual sense but in the spiritual sense.
Thank you very much. I had been saying ' to me...... ' but that didn't work.
I will make note of your suggestions, Again ' than you' for your reply.
So, God drops a cookie cutter by leaving it close to a magical tree.
Then, He keeps on using it. And somehow, the deformed cookies made by that cutter are now blaming me for having a dent?
Seriously?
How can I possibly believe such nonsense? I can understand that primitive goatherds believed it. But I cannot.
Tom
You lost me on the 1000 year reign thing again. When you going to drop that silly idea?
2 Peter 1:11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
In my viewpoint, the ' magical ', so to speak, tree was the: tree of life.
To my understanding Adam and Eve had unlimited access to the 'tree of life'.
God forewarned that eating from the forbidden tree would cause: death.
Adam and Eve had plenty to eat, there was No hardship of Not having enough food.
If you had a generous neighbor who had a lot of fruit trees and told you that you could come over any time you wanted and have as much fruit as you wanted except for one particular tree, would you consider your generous neighbor as being unjust !
To me, Adam and Eve turned themselves into dented cookie cutters. No one forced them to eat forbidden fruit.
Since God does Not go back on His purpose for ALL of us to be descendants of Adam and Eve according to Genesis 1:28, then if God would Not have allowed them to have children we simply would Not be here.
Since we are innocent of what Satan and Adam did, then that is why God sent his un-dented Son to Earth so that we Not only could be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us, but to grant us the same original opportunity that was offered to Adam before his downfall which is to live forever on a beautiful paradisical Earth.
From my viewpoint that is a reason for Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth so that enemy death will be No more on Earth as mentioned at 1 Corinthians 15:26 and Isaiah 25:8
I agree, God's eternal kingdom is an eternal welcome. First, to those who have a first or earlier resurrection to heaven as said at Revelation 20:6. To me, they will serve as kings and priests according to Revelation 5:9-10.
I think, according to Psalms 72:8, 12-14 Jesus will have earthly subjects, besides those resurrect to heaven and also those who will have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to life on a beautiful paradisical Earth.
Those in heaven serve mankind living on Earth:
As kings they will take care of governmental responsibilites of people living on Earth.
As priests, they will take care of spiritual duties toward those people living on Earth.
My understanding of Matthew 25:31-33,37 is that there is a ' time of separation ' coming for the living on Earth.
Jesus, as righteous judge, will grant the figurative humble sheep-like ones the right to remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth, right into the start of calendar Day One of Jesus' millennial reign over Earth.
I view the teachings of Isaiah as giving us a preview, or coming attraction, of what Earth is going to be like:
Such as found at Isaiah chapter 35, Isaiah chapter 11, and 'No more death on Earth' according to Isaiah 25:8.
So, I too think God's kingdom is eternal (eternal welcome), but that Jesus is king of God's kingdom until he gives back God's kingdom to his God according to 1 Corinthians 15:24-26.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
None of the choices in your poll really described my feelings, so I didn't vote. The first two choices didn't apply at all, but I'll address the third one, which was:
I believe that when a person dies, his spirit leaves his body but does not cease to exist as a cognizant entity, with the capacity to learn, make choices and progress. I further believe that during the period between one's death and his resurrection, he will have the opportunity to hear and understand the gospel of Jesus Christ, repent of his sins, and accept the Savior's atoning sacrifice on his behalf. What kind of a loving God would create us (i.e. humanity), give His Only Begotten Son as a ransom for our sins -- contingent upon our belief in Him -- and then make it impossible for so many to be the recipients of that gift simply because they were born at the wrong time or in the wrong place? That's not the kind of God I believe in.
I believe God definitely wants everyone to be saved, so I'd say that it's inaccurate to assume that He "doesn't really have a preference." I can definitely go along with the rest of your statement, i.e. "He established a path to salvation. The rest is up to us," but with a very important qualifier. A man I hold in very high regard once said, "The more we learn about the gospel of Jesus Christ, the more we realize that endings here in mortality are not endings at all." Almost every Christian in the world is convinced the curtain falls on our opportunity to find that path the moment we die. I don't believe it does. Billions of people have died without ever having had the opportunity to find the path God established for our salvation. I don't believe this means that those individuals are destined to an eternity in Hell.
I believe that when a person dies, his spirit leaves his body but does not cease to exist as a cognizant entity, with the capacity to learn, make choices and progress. I further believe that during the period between one's death and his resurrection, he will have the opportunity to hear and understand the gospel of Jesus Christ, repent of his sins, and accept the Savior's atoning sacrifice on his behalf. What kind of a loving God would create us (i.e. humanity), give His Only Begotten Son as a ransom for our sins -- contingent upon our belief in Him -- and then make it impossible for so many to be the recipients of that gift simply because they were born at the wrong time or in the wrong place? That's not the kind of God I believe in.
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wicketkeeper
Living From the Heart.
Snap ! Sometimes religious dogma can blind the reader.
I like to dig deeper. I question everything.
This is my current way of reading the Bible - New and Old Testaments( I also am of the opinion that religion is being used as a tool of control and suffocation).
Assigning a higher than a literal interpretation to the Scripture record of things, in particular the Old Testament story.