psychoslice
Veteran Member
Yea yea, and we come back to where we are now, I simply don't agree with you, period.
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Are Blood Transfusions Really Life Saving?
- Thread starter Deeje
- Start date
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Leviticus 17:14. “You must not eat the blood of any sort of flesh, because the soul of every sort of flesh is its blood. Anyone eating it will be cut off.”
It is plain as day that Leviticus was talking about eating the blood, nothing to do with blood transfusion.
It is plain as day that Leviticus was talking about eating the blood, nothing to do with blood transfusion.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
If you are going to believe what it says about blood in Leviticus then you must also believe and practice what it says to everything else in Leviticus
Leviticus 20:9
If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.
20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.
Leviticus 25:44-45
Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
Leviticus 20:9
If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.
20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.
Leviticus 25:44-45
Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
dianaiad
Well-Known Member
Well now, that's a problem. It's one of the reasons that I have some difficulty with this particular issue. Vaccinations are not JUST about the person getting them, y'know.
When my mother was very young, a 'bum' or 'hobo' (this was in the Depression) was found on a freight train, ill. He was taken to a local hospital where he died within a few days. He had smallpox. My mother's oldest sister and her family caught it, along with about half of the people in the town, and the town mayor attempted to down play the thing and call it 'chickenpox,' while being sneaky about getting as many people vaccinated against smallpox as he could. Unfortunately, my grandmother (Mom's mother) had gone to help her daughter care for her family, and fortunately nobody in that family died. However....Grandmother knew what it was, and it wasn't chickenpox.
When she came home she informed the public health department and the local authorities (and the doctors) and voluntarily put herself and her children in quarantine, along with everybody SHE had contacted after she saw her daughter's family. She had, after all, caught it herself. She made her husband and her children get vaccinated, but a young woman who helped her refused to do so either for herself or her own children because she was afraid of it.
So Grandma and her family all survived, either not getting the disease at all, or getting an extremely mild case. This young woman, however....she and her family all got it, and she and two of her children died. That's one thing...but because she refused to be vaccinated, my grandmother's courageous actions in notifying the authorities didn't do much good for the town...SHE was in quarantine, but this other woman wouldn't do that, and so something like fifteen people in that village of less than 300 died....and a whole bunch of 'em got sick before everybody was vaccinated.
I myself am 'immune compromised,' and if some mother won't get her child vaccinated against the flu or measles or chickenpox or whatever....that CHILD might be fine; after all, most of the diseases that children are vaccinated against are considered 'childhood diseases' and the vast majority of children sail right through them. I did, mostly....
But I'm not immune to any of them any more, (Bone marrow transplants can do that to you) and if some kid who wasn't vaccinated is coming down with the measles and breathes around me, I could die. Really.
Speaking of....recently there was a measles outbreak among children who had gone to Disneyland. Some of those children got very, very ill. I'm not certain, but one may have died...all because one young vacationer had them, but wasn't vaccinated because her mother was nervous about it. The other children who got the measles also had parents who had refused to vaccinate their children because they were afraid. There were a great many sick children and adults as a result of this, and it wasn't fun for anybody. You ARE aware of what measles can do to adults who get it, right?
So you see why I have a slightly different view of this?
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dianaiad
Well-Known Member
Well....who's to judge what 'abuse' is?
psychoslice
Veteran Member
The law for one.
There are several medical sources that tell us that blood transfusion is not the life saving procedure it was claimed to be.Times are changing and not every doctor keeps up to date with the latest procedures.
What is being ignored are the two words repeated in the video...."Morbidity" meaning something causing severe illness that can lead to death and "mortality" ...meaning the cause of death itself. It was stated by several doctors that blood transfusion causes more "morbidity" and "mortality" than any other medical procedure.
If you wish to undergo such on a doctor's recommendation, then by all means do so. People are free to choose what will or will not be done to their own body. But on that basis, I believe that we should also be able to determine what is best for our children as well. Doctors are not God and this procedure is deemed to be dangerous to health by the very doctors who should know. Many of them now respect our wishes even in the treatment of our children. We are grateful to them for their assistance. Our position is no longer considered to be unreasonable.
On our past track record, many of our brotherhood have been told by doctors that they would die without blood....very few of them did, and when that happened, it made headlines. The truth is, the patient may have died anyway. Do you know how many people die as a direct result of having blood transfusions? Many more than who die without them. This is why bloodless surgery and treatment is becoming widespread in the world. They have seen how well alternative therapies work and how much better patients recover without resorting to blood transfusions.
Please don't forget that blood is a multi-million dollar a year industry......where there is so much profit at stake, do you really trust them to tell you the truth?
FAQs | The Center for Bloodless Medicine and Surgery at Johns Hopkins
'Bloodless' surgery avoids risks of transfusion
How Jehovah’s Witnesses Are Changing Medicine
Should Anyone Be Given a Blood Transfusion?
Advantages of Transfusion-Free Medicine and Surgery – Penn Medicine
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
I see a large amount of Gish galloping, but I fail to see any actual response (much less rebuttal) to my post.
Do you or do you not accept that the findings in the video are somewhat misleading? Did you look up the paper before posting the video yourself, or did you just blindly accept the video's presentation of the paper without actually looking into it?
It is pointless debating with someone who refuses to see past the end of their nose. Look at the links I provided.
You can't for one minute stop and contemplate what the OP video was saying ...and who was saying it?
Did you not see the cytoscope evidence for what happens when saline is administered compared with what happens when whole blood is given? Blood impedes the flow of red cells to the tissues. Saline takes what red cells are left and distributes them. The body's capacity for making new cells is phenomenal, especially with the help of EPO.
Are you aware of something called cell salvage? There are many techniques for eliminating the need for blood. Doctors know that patients recover better without it. Google bloodless medicine and see for yourself.
I have looked into it very thoroughly, as have my brothers who are appointed as advisory committees to hospitals. Doctors defer to their knowledge of the subject because they know that it is our business to make sure that we are up to date on the latest techniques.
You are welcome to your view, but we are letting people know what the real story is, not the outdated stuff that keeps the blood industry profitable.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
I was referring to all Christian religions.
I didn't say YHVH - "did not" - believe in murder.
The Bible tells us that YHVH personally Murdered children for the supposed sins of adults. Davis's baby, Firstborn of Egypt, the flood, etc.
No they didn't have to commit genocide on people that didn't agree with their religion. Such is murder of the innocent. No real God would want such.
Your point??? Nothing to do with stories of straight out MURDER by YHVH, and his followers.
We are at this horrific place in time mainly because of the religions of Abraham, - that want to force everybody under their religions.
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ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
I agree, which is why I want you to acknowledge the refutation made of your argument BEFORE moving on to other arguments. You're the one demonstrating an inability to see past the end of your nose if you can't just admit that your video was somewhat misleading and, instead of standing your ground and responding to my argument, you just dredge up four or five other arguments and expect me to address them all.
You don't get off that easily. If your argument has merit, defend it. Don't just change the subject as soon as your house of cards comes tumbling down.
I watched the full video and actually RESEARCHED it, which is something you apparently failed to do, otherwise you would realize the flaw in its presentation.
I'm not likely to take anything the video says seriously when it uses dishonesty as a tactic.
Once again, deal with the argument you've already made before juming to new ones.
You are simply lying. You never looked up the paper at all to check its validity. You merely accepted what the video said at face value.
You peddled a video containing lies to support your agenda and are refusing to acknowledge this fact. That makes you a complicit liar.
You are done. You obviously won't admit it in this thread, but now you know that you are dishonest, and you'll just have to live with that and try desperately to deny it to yourself.
Jenny Collins
Active Member
First of all, why would conditioning make someone count as a human? In the womb, there are some thoughts in their head, even if we don't know what they are! They are not sophisticated thoughts, but the baby recognizes its mother's voice, it likes the soothing sound of classical music, it sucks its thumb for comfort, it senses the mother's stress, it feels pain! When it is born, it has not yet developed an ego, but you would not kill a 1 day old child!
Jenny Collins
Active Member
True
Jenny Collins
Active Member
What I think that people need to consider is that at a certain age, a child can think for themselves! I already pointed out that at the age of 11I began believing as I do now, and I had to battle my mother's screaming at me for years over my beliefs! Doesn't that show that a child after a certain age can think for themselves? Somebody as young as 12 can potentially go to prison for life, if they kill someone! Even though teens are considered inexperienced and vulnerable, they have reached reasoning age, and some of those youth don't want a transfusion!
Jenny Collins
Active Member
You don't believe life starts until they become conditioned? What about some 40 year old jerk who is conditioned to be an awful person? We wouldn't kill him! Why kill an unborn child because it hasn't developed a personality yet? Some people's personalities are awful
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Do you believe upbringing has no influence on a child by the time they are 12?
Jenny Collins
Active Member
We don't
abstain from blood because it is forbidden in Leviticus! Have you been following what I have been saying here? We follow Acts which restates that Christians are not supposed to take blood either
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
No, they said "I don't believe a child is a child until it is born".
You can't kill something that isn't yet alive.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
And not giving them may be harmful. Most science and doctors fall on the side of giving transfusions. Do they give too many? Probably. But that isn't the point of these debates.
Again. NO! I would never allow my child to die without trying blood transfusions, etc. Nor do I believe a God would want such, or make such laws.
As shown - NO IT DOESN'T! It is related to Sacrificial and Dietary Laws, and probably pagan practices.
As I said - a REAL God would not want children murdered/sacrificed.
Isaac was not sacrificed, - an animal was substituted. It is a teaching story about the change from Sacrifice of the Firstborn, - to a replacement animal sacrifice.
Jesus claimed to be the awaited Jewish Messiah. The Messiah was not supposed to die. Jesus died. After his death the followers added the he'll be back, to finish the prophecies, propaganda, to his story.
When adults make medical decisions AGAINST what the majority of the Medical/scientific world consider the best chance at recovery/survival, then the authorities should step in allowing the medical help, - and protecting the CHILD's rights to life, - over the parent's religious ideas, - until the child comes of age and can make the decision for himself.
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psychoslice
Veteran Member
Yes they are, but that is life, some are jerks some are not, and so with the unborn baby, he or she will be either a jerk or a good human being.