Religious Acceptance and Tolerance

Green Gaia · Jul 4, 2006

I've just realized that true acceptance and tolerance of all religions is not possible when even one religion feels itself morally superior over others and promotes the idea that it is the only true religion. Because if you deny that other religions are true and equal paths to God (whatever your understanding of the concept of "God" is) you do not accept or respect those other religions.

Do you think this is true?

Will we ever have true religious acceptance and tolerance*?

It is a fools dream to hope for religious acceptance and tolerance in our culture?

*for the purpose of this thread I'm assuming beliefs and practices are legal and non-harmful.

michel · Jul 4, 2006

Maize said:
I've just realized that true acceptance and tolerance of all religions is not possible when even one religion feels itself morally superior over others and promotes the idea that it is the only true religion. Because if you deny that other religions are true and equal paths to God (whatever your understanding of the concept of "God" is) you do not accept or respect those other religions.

Do you think this is true?

Will we ever have true religious acceptance and tolerance*?

It is a fools dream to hope for religious acceptane and tolerance in our culture?

*for the purpose of this thread I'm assuming beliefs and practices are legal and non-harmful.

Unfortunately, I think you are right, Maize.

when even one religion feels itself morally superior over others and promotes the idea that it is the only true religion

I would hope (or like to think) that no religious group feels itself morally superior; the idea that the followers would believe that it is the true religion, however, I think is a way of thinking that cannot be avoided.

I would add that this way of thinking is more prominent in some faiths than in others; but universal tollerance and acceptance ? I can't see it.

Edit:-BTW I voted "Yes"

Melody · Jul 4, 2006

I did not vote because there was not a choice for me. Acceptance and tolerance of a religion does not mean agreeing that it's the correct path. It just means accepting and tolerating that people have a right to their beliefs.

Katzpur · Jul 4, 2006

Maize,

I realize the choices on your poll will work for most people, but I don't think they do for Latter-day Saints. As you know, we believe that our Church is a restoration of the same Church Jesus Christ established during His ministry. We also hold to what the Bible says on the subject...

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

But unlike other Christians, we do not believe that the death marks the point of no return. According to LDS thought, God will provide everyone who has ever lived with every conceivable opportunity to hear, fully understand, and accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ. (Billions will not get this opportunity until the period of time between their death and resurrection.) It is therefore entirely consistent with His gospel to say that we fully expect to see people in heaven who lived their lives as faithful Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, pagans and

atheists.

I wish I could remember the exact quote from a former President of the Church, but I can't. In essense, it said, "There are many paths leading to Heaven, but there is only one key to the gate."

Jayhawker Soule · Jul 4, 2006

Of course not. Truth is either objective or it's meaningless. The Catholic and the Hindu may both be wrong in their respective appraisal of Jesus, Krishna, and Reincarnation, but they are certainly not both true. Beyong that, phrases such as "true, equal paths to God" are, at best, cognitively meaningless.

Halcyon · Jul 4, 2006

I voted totally honestly in the poll and said that i view some religions as being better paths to God than others.

While i respect anyones right to believe whatever they wish, my personal opinion is that some religious beliefs can be detrimental the the spiritual and sometimes physical and mental health of their adherants.
Sometimes it is not the teaching itself which is bad, but the interpretation. However, it is the interpretation and practice that is of greater importance because it is that which affects people, not the scripture.

In general i view literalist and fundamentalist interpretation in a negative light, i also consider religions which view/treat certain groups (women, homosexuals) as inferior or somehow evil in a similar light.
Any religion which advocates/practices violence for any reason and those which teach shunning and oppression also go into the negative pile.
I'm not going to name these religions because it would only offend people.

It would be nice to say that i respect all religions, and with scripture i would say that i do. But i can't in all honesty place all practised religions on the same level of worthiness.

Katzpur · Jul 4, 2006

michel said:
I would hope (or like to think) that no religious group feels itself morally superior; the idea that the followers would believe that it is the true religion, however, I think is a way of thinking that cannot be avoided.

There is a difference between having a feeling of moral superiority and having confidence that one's beliefs are true. If I didn't feel that the doctrines I susbscribed to were true, I'd go looking for different doctrines. If I felt that two contradictory doctrines could both be equally valid, there would be no point in even trying to find truth. It would be completely elusive -- as some obviously believe it is. I personally do not.

michel · Jul 4, 2006

Katzpur said:
There is a difference between having a feeling of moral superiority and having confidence that one's beliefs are true. If I didn't feel that the doctrines I susbscribed to were true, I'd go looking for different doctrines. If I felt that two contradictory doctrines could both be equally valid, there would be no point in even trying to find truth. It would be completely elusive -- as some obviously believe it is. I personally do not.[/color]

Of course, but that was why I made the point. I don't believe, for example, that you 'look down' on those who don't share your beliefs; I am sure you would respect their differences.

robtex · Jul 4, 2006

The poll doesn't work for the atheists of RF because it pre-supposes there is a God but I voted other and see them as all equal in validity because the constant of pursueing reality, and their perception of ontology is based on faith. To put that into context a co-worker just yesterday commented on how strange it was that scientologist believe an alien force put us here. I replied "more strange or less strange than the immaculate conception of Christ?" The qualification and central point of all religions (as outlined by Katz here) http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34945

is structured as faith making them all equal in validity due to methodology irregardless of how "outlandish" their claims may be. The bigger question may will be what is the standard of which reality is to be measured.

Katzpur · Jul 4, 2006

michel said:
Of course, but that was why I made the point. I don't believe, for example, that you 'look down' on those who don't share your beliefs; I am sure you would respect their differences.

Yes, I absolutely would and do respect those differences. And if there ever comes a time when I fail to do so, I hope somebody will call me on the carpet for it.

robtex · Jul 4, 2006

Jayhawker Soule said:
Beyong that, phrases such as "true, equal paths to God" are, at best, cognitively meaningless.

Well worded. Good post Jay.

I would say that the ambiguity of the statement plus the notion that cognitive evaluation is not a tool to define reality is intellectually appauling. If a phrase such as "all paths are true and equal paths to God". than the idea of searching at all would be also pointless and meaningless. (and thus we would all be existentalists yeah!!! just kidding). At some point an evaluation is neccessary and certainly to each his own on what constitutes validity on this evaluation but understand that if all religions have equal validity and you DO NOT FOLLOW ALL OF THEM, and when I mean follow all of them I mean in ritual practice and accepting that God as your own, than you have by virtue of the idea that all faiths are equal dismissed all of them or you have incorrectly stated your alligence to the proposition that all faiths are equal.

The times when faiths and religions ideas are either mutually exclusive or contradictory in proposition one cannot state they hold them both with equal validity and than accept one on faith and reject the other on faith. If the standard of measurement is the same (aka faith) and the validity as assessed as the same the conclusion cannot be different with out compromising the opening proposition of what constitutes validity. In such cases to say they are both ok though incompatable is an academic cop-out and being very dishonest with oneself.

One can be religious tolerant of other beliefs and still reject the notions of those beliefs but one cannot be religious accepting of all beliefs present today with equal conviction unless that level of conviction boils down to "I don't know" or "I don't know what to believe."

Green Gaia · Jul 4, 2006

None of you understood what I was trying to convey, which is my fault for not expressing myself adequately. So just forget it.....

robtex · Jul 4, 2006

Maize said:
None of you understood what I was trying to convey, which is my fault for not expressing myself adequately. So just forget it.....

No no don't be that way. What were you trying to convey. I noticed a conflicting message of religious tolerance vs validity of beliefs. The two ideas are entirely seperate notions. Were you trying to convey a message of religious tolerance even though you may or may not find validity in the belief system presented?

Jayhawker Soule · Jul 4, 2006

Maize said:
So just forget it.....

I would rather assume that what you were trying to convey is valuable and have you give it another try.

michel · Jul 4, 2006

Maize said:
I've just realized that true acceptance and tolerance of all religions is not possible when even one religion feels itself morally superior over others and promotes the idea that it is the only true religion. Because if you deny that other religions are true and equal paths to God (whatever your understanding of the concept of "God" is) you do not accept or respect those other religions.

Do you think this is true?

Will we ever have true religious acceptance and tolerance*?

It is a fools dream to hope for religious acceptance and tolerance in our culture?

*for the purpose of this thread I'm assuming beliefs and practices are legal and non-harmful.

I don't see what there is to misunderstand. I understand that you are saying "Can we ever have true acceptance an tollerance towards others who think the path to God is different from ours?"

I think a few members here have made it clear that they can still have tollerance (and not feel morally superior) even though they believe that "they are right". Naturally, they would do so; I believe I am right, and whilst (for example) both you Amy, and Kathryn have totally different beliefs from mine, I think I am right in saying that neither of you feels morally superior to me, in as much as I most certainly don't feel morally superior to either of you.

I believe that we three (for example) represent the

religious acceptance and tolerance in our culture

on this Forum, as do many of the members.

But this Forum isn't representative of Society in general.

robtex · Jul 4, 2006

michel said:
But this Forum isn't representative of Society in general.

In terms of tolerance, not by a long shot.

Jayhawker Soule · Jul 4, 2006

michel said:
I think a few members here have made it clear that they can still have tollerance (and not feel morally superior) even though they believe that "they are right".

Michael, what would it mean to say (for example) that you do not feel morally superior to the homophobic religious right? What would it mean to say (for example) that you are not intolerant of the social and ethical system reflected in Sharia under Taliban rule?

Tigress · Jul 4, 2006

I concede that there is truth to be found in all religions. Any more than that, I'll let religioustolerance.org handle:

On their site, religious tolerance does not involve:

- Believing that all religions are the same.
- Believing that all sets of religious beliefs are equally true.
- Believing that all faiths are equally beneficial and equally harmless to society.
- Believing that all religious groups are equally beneficial and equally harmless to their followers.
- Refraining from criticizing religious practices of others.
- Refraining from talking about your beliefs to others.
- Ignoring your own religious ideas.

But does involve:

- Accepting that followers of various religions consider their own beliefs to be true.
- Allowing others to hold religious beliefs that are different from yours.
- Allowing others to freely change their religion, or denomination or beliefs.
- Allowing others to practice their religious faith, within reasonable limits.
- Refusing to discriminate in employment, accommodation etc. on religious grounds.
- Making a reasonable effort to accommodate other people's religious needs.

I have adopted this same criteria as my own.

fantome profane · Jul 4, 2006

In my conception, God is everything, so the idea that all paths lead to God is the only logical conclusion. But I do not expect others to share my conception of God. I can only expect people to tolerate my beliefs.

There will always be individuals and religions that believe that their way is the only way. There will always be those who believe that anyone who is not following the one true God exactly they way they do is not only wrong, but actually following Satan. I dont agree with this, I dont like this, and this attitude often makes me feel ill. But I must tolerate this. If I am to demand tolerance for my beliefs and the beliefs of others (and I do) I must also show tolerance for beliefs that I dont like.

As people have already pointed out in this thread, tolerance is not about agreeing with or liking someone elses beliefs. It is about allowing people the freedom to believe what they want, to practice their faith (as long as it does not harm others), and to express their beliefs, and to do so without persecution.

Now I realize that the beliefs that some people hold naturally lead them to be intolerant of others. But I cannot respond to this with intolerance of my own. I do not expect everyone to agree with me that all paths lead to God, but it is because I believe it that I must respect all paths.

Jayhawker Soule · Jul 4, 2006

fantôme profane said:
In my conception, God is everything, so the idea that all paths lead to God is the only logical conclusion.

Actually, if "God" is everything, all paths are part of "God" and the idea of a path leading to "God" is not logical in the least - nor is it made more logical by employing a larger font size.

Religious Acceptance and Tolerance

Do you accept and respect religions other than your own as true, equal paths to God?

Yes.

No, my religion is the only right and true one.

Some yes, some no (please state which you accept and which you do not)

I don't know/other (please state)

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