Acknowledging Jesus Christ

Matthew 10:32 said:

32. Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

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So does this mean that if someone confesses a belief in Christ which is different then yours --for example, you believe in the Trinity, and they believe in three seperate members of the Godhead, that Jesus Christ will not confess them before their Father in Heaven? And why not?

What must someone confess in order for Jesus Christ to confess them before the Father?

And in comparision to that

Matthew 10:33 said:

33. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven

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What are the qualifications for denial--for a person, and how is this denial presented to the Father? Does this present the exculsion from the Father's presence or from heaven?

may said:

"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life ...John 3;16 exercising is doing something
(John 12:44) However, Jesus cried out and said: "He that puts faith in me puts faith, not in me [only], but in him [also] that sent me.............. so who sent Jesus to the earth ? it was Jehovah his father .

That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,​

You alone are the Most High over all the earth. psalm 83;18

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May, that in no way answered my question. If you expect to quote scriptures, please explain why you quoted them and how the are related to the original post please.

Excellent questions, Becky!

IMO, we are all pretty far removed from an exact understanding of who Christ was in order for any of us to fully comprehend precisely who He is. It is by faith that we know Christ and by grace that Christ will do anything for us before the Father.

IMO, a small misunderstanding concerning the nature of Christ is just as significant as a large misunderstanding of Christ. Because of our various limitations we will all have misunderstandings in our confession - so all of us who confess Christ in good faith are on the same ground.

That is a good question! He also says that they'll cast out deamons, heal the sick etc. And then he'll deny them. So it's not a "works" thing. It's not a case of "well I fed 10000 starving children and miraculously healed 200 HIV+ people and preached the word to 1000000 sinners so I have bought my ticket to heaven" It must be similar to what angellous_evangellous said a matter of true belief. or Faith.

These questions may be answered when placed in a historical context becky.

This passage is found only in Matthew with a similar but slightly different version found in Luke. Since it is not found in Mark, from which both Matthew and Luke are based, it is quite safe to assume that the passages are additions to the gospel by the author, possibly from another manuscript but more likely as a teaching to the Christians of the time.

You see at the time, late first century to early second, martyrdom was popular - people believed that by dying in persecution and so emulating Christ they would automatically gain entry to Heaven. This of course involved their confessing as a Christian at trial, denying Christ at trial often led to the individuals freedom.

Thus the gospel authors, probably proponants of martyrdom themselves, encouraged people to "confess Christ" at trial with the bribe that Christ would put in a good word for them with his Father. It also helped weadle out the Gnostic heretics (which is how i know all this stuff) from the orthodox flock, because Gnostics would deny being Christian at trial - themselves seeing martyrdom in this way as a form of suicide.

angellous_evangellous said:

we will all have misunderstandings in our confession - so all of us who confess Christ in good faith are on the same ground.

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Doesn't He say that the purpose of life is to know Him, though? Do you believe we have no way of personally coming to know Him in a comprehensive manner?

Halcyon said:

This passage is found only in Matthew with a similar but slightly different version found in Luke. Since it is not found in Mark, from which both Matthew and Luke are based,

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I would call this a theoretical standpoint, not an historical. Your whole theory is based on another theory - that Matthew and Luke borrowed material from Mark - itself a conclusion arrived at under the assumption that none of it really happened.

This thread is operating under the idea that the commentors are believers.

In addition, the trials you mentioned did not specifically require a denial of acceptance of Christ as a savior. They required making obesience to the Roman rulers (gods first, and later the Emperor). For a Gnostic to avoid this "suicide" would have required worshiping Roman gods or emperors, which would be a blatant violation of the most basic facets of the Christian faith. You can view them as heroes if you want, but they were not.

I'm not gonna hijack becky's thread by debating this dan, i answered her questions from my perspective.
If this were a thread just for "believers" then it would be in the same faith forum.

beckysoup61 said:

So does this mean that if someone confesses a belief in Christ which is different then yours --for example, you believe in the Trinity, and they believe in three seperate members of the Godhead, that Jesus Christ will not confess them before their Father in Heaven? And why not?

What must someone confess in order for Jesus Christ to confess them before the Father?

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I don't think that Christianity only deals with specific beliefs.

It's much more than that...it deals with a personal walk with Christ...learning more each day how to abandon the flesh and follow Christ.

This, in my opinion, should be our most important focus...to work daily to fulfill HIS will for our lives.

dan said:

Doesn't He say that the purpose of life is to know Him, though? Do you believe we have no way of personally coming to know Him in a comprehensive manner?

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Who do you think said that, Jesus Christ? I don't recall seeing that in the NT.

Mystic-als said:

That is a good question! He also says that they'll cast out deamons, heal the sick etc. And then he'll deny them. So it's not a "works" thing. It's not a case of "well I fed 10000 starving children and miraculously healed 200 HIV+ people and preached the word to 1000000 sinners so I have bought my ticket to heaven" It must be similar to what angellous_evangellous said a matter of true belief. or Faith.

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Correction, its not ONLY a works thing however works is at least half of the equation. James 2:24-26

beckysoup61 said:

May, that in no way answered my question. If you expect to quote scriptures, please explain why you quoted them and how the are related to the original post please.

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I believe what May was trying to say is that according to John 17:3 the only way to attain ever lasting life is to have the knowledge of God and Jesus. What kind of knowledge you ask? Accurate knowledge. Romans 10:1-4

mattp said:

I believe what May was trying to say is that according to John 17:3 the only way to attain ever lasting life is to have the knowledge of God and Jesus. What kind of knowledge you ask? Accurate knowledge. Romans 10:1-4

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What about the mentally diabled or stupid people?

If God accepts stupid people - and there are a lot of idiots out there - why not those who have made honest mistakes about their thinking of God?

mattp said:

I believe what May was trying to say is that according to John 17:3 the only way to attain ever lasting life is to have the knowledge of God and Jesus. What kind of knowledge you ask? Accurate knowledge. Romans 10:1-4

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As for John 17.3, there is no indication that Jesus [John] must be interpreted as you have done. Everlasting life is knowing God - but there is no indication whatsoever that the only way to know God is to believe a certain way now. God reserves the right to reveal Godself to whoever God chooses whenever God chooses.

I'm not exactly sure where in the bible this is, but I will get an exact verse and line later, but there it says that there will be a time when man will come to Jesus and say " I prayed in your name, I healed in your name, and I prayed to the father in your name, why have I been condemned? and it says that Jesus' reply is "I didn't even know you". This is written in the Bible, and I find it very interesting to see something like that. That goes to show you that a lot of people are following the way of Christ incorrectly.

angellous_evangellous said:

If God accepts stupid people - and there are a lot of idiots out there - why not those who have made honest mistakes about their thinking of God?

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Personally, I believe that God is merciful. If it were possible for each and every person who has ever lived to come to a full, perfect, and accurate knowledge of God during his or her lifetime, I believe God would judge them quite differently than I believe He actually will judge them. He knows what's in our hearts and He knows the effort we've expended to come to know Him. If, in spite of our best efforts, we've missed the mark, I think He'll take that into consideration. You would probably agree with me, at least to some extent, up to this point. Here's where we'll disagree: I believe that He will provide each of us to clear up those "honest mistakes" before it's too late, and that there is a period of time between death and the resurrection when we will continue to be provided with opportunities to learn and more completely understand the things that are necessary for our salvation.

angellous_evangellous said:

Who do you think said that, Jesus Christ? I don't recall seeing that in the NT.

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It's in the intercessory prayer. John 17:3

angellous_evangellous said:

As for John 17.3, there is no indication that Jesus [John] must be interpreted as you have done. Everlasting life is knowing God - but there is no indication whatsoever that the only way to know God is to believe a certain way now. God reserves the right to reveal Godself to whoever God chooses whenever God chooses.

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Yet you deny that any of us can have an accurate knowledge?