Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
C'mon don't give up so easy, if spontanoeus universe creating mechanisms are not an arbitrary probability, how probable are they? how did you calculate the odds? I'm curious
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Lack of belief in gods.
- Thread starter Jeremiahcp
- Start date
C'mon don't give up so easy, if spontanoeus universe creating mechanisms are not an arbitrary probability, how probable are they? how did you calculate the odds? I'm curious
Jeremiahcp
Well-Known Jerk
Guy Threepwood
Mighty Pirate
TSDR 
Thumper
Thank the gods I'm an atheist
As far as we know right now 1:1. Any other inference would be making stuff up.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
of course it is.....
follow science to the 'point'....
science can go no further.....but....you can
the item in front of you would be the primordial singularity
motionless
timeless
no equation will work for you
no petri dish to hold it
no light...no shadow
no heat...no cold
nothing
the void.......
motion has a rule
the item in front of you will remain as is until
Something moves it
wanna give that a 'snap'?
Thumper
Thank the gods I'm an atheist
That "rule" may or may not be true for quantum states.
But, be that as it may, you claim to know that "Something moves it", but all I have is your word for that and no reason to just accept your word as the answer for anything. You further claim that this "something" is "spirit". Yet you have never provided any evidence that "spirit" actually exists or even has meaning outside of your mythology.
Your words are meaningless to anyone but you and your argument is empty.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
science gives the reason.....
it's a law of motion
you must deny the law.....then you can have your say
as you please
Thumper
Thank the gods I'm an atheist
You are confusing Newton's 2nd law of motion with causality as used in physics. Quantum mechanics has shown that cause-and-effect are not inviolate.
But more to the point, you are attempting to argue for an "uncaused cause" which is also known as the cosmological argument (or the more modern Kalam cosmological argument). All of which have been thoroughly refuted. It's a tired old argument, please go do your own research on this.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
You present a false dichotomy: there are many more options than "Spirit before matter, or matter before Spirit."
Putting aside that I have no idea what a "singularity" is, it apparently occurs at some point in the past. Therefore, it could not possibly be representative of the figurative "creation" which is eternal, fundamental, and imminently unfolding.
Thumper
Thank the gods I'm an atheist
As noted in post #527 --
you have never provided any evidence that "spirit" actually exists or even has meaning outside of your mythology. Your words are meaningless to anyone but you and your argument is empty.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Thief
Rogue Theologian
at the point of creation.......
Spirit first.
substance is not of it's own hand
all of motion had a beginning
start there
Vaderecta
Active Member
You didn't answer anything. Spirit first! What is spirit? How does it differ from substance? I encourage spiritual references. Many times people that meditate who have never done so before run into their own personal spiritual experience but then you pop up and say you had a spiritual experience? I know what it is because I had a spiritual experience and what I experienced must be what you experienced and I will tell you how powerful my experience was and try to convince you that my experience explains your experience...
But you do not. Everyone has the capacity to have a what you call a Spiritual experience but they are better source of information to explain their experience and I wonder why you want to subvert that experience as something you are a trusted source of guidance of?
You asked have I made a choice? Yes. I accept the substance argument but do not deny people have spiritual experiences.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
then all of life is substance to you
and the end of your chemistry is pending with no hope of continuance
it's not a matter of religion
it's not a matter of practice
if life is substance ...you are just moving to death
Spirit first
as Creator
substance as creation
Cause and effect
Vaderecta
Active Member
I am not sure that post makes sense. We are made of cells and as cells divide they use up material so much so that eventually the material they use is themselves which causes errors and eventually ceases cell division resulting in death. (Its very unlikely though IMHO that anyone will die from this but it does happen, I think we die from many other easily preventable reasons)
In any event you are starting with an idea of a creator and your existence as some ode to this creator and depending on your results you will be rewarded or whatever.
Ironically you were created by your mom and dad and if they are very specific people involved in gene research with extensive medical training they may be able to prevent your death long enough for another human to come along and discover the next miracle to further extend your life perhaps for many centuries. That is not absolutely science fiction at this point.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
not much point in the formation of a body....that in turn forms a spirit
and then have the whole thing end up in the ground
Man was formed.....to form spirit
the design
is obvious
Vaderecta
Active Member
What is a spirit in your mind?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
it's that part of you that will respond to this post