How are these Great Beings explained?

loverofhumanity said:

No problems with unity in diversity at all but I'm against things like labelling each other infidel and then killing and oppressing one another. That's using diversity to hate and is plainly wrong.

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Most religions probably want to have peace and end this. Most religions would probably do it in the way their founders and/or teachings want them to. I keep repeating my point but you're not addressing them specifically.

The best example is saying that you are like Hindu because you have the same goals you feel one of many gods of hindu have that's defined by your religion not by Hinduis themselves.

Doing this is division. It causes people to divide when their beliefs are appropriated in other people's beliefs regardless the intention.

Diversity is not division. If you are for diversity, Bahaullah would not have other founders as prophets for his coming. It is a divisional religion just as many other god-religions.

The difference is I don't hear Bahai on the news causing wars. That doesn't mean you are different just mean you are nice and willing to learn.

You're contradicting yourself.

loverofhumanity said:

Peace based upon the oneness of humankind. This includes atheists, pagans, basically everyone.

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You said anyone who does not believe in god are not part of your religion. Only the selected ones who you believe speaks of god or are called from god. Atheists don't believe in god, many (not all) pagans believe in more than one (Hinduis included), everyone? Your belief dismisses every other religion as it was questioned to you in the second or third post by @Ragan Pagan who asked why pagan gods weren't in your founder-prophecied religion.

loverofhumanity said:

If we say people must believe in God to have world peace then it will never happen.

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My point exactly. Your religion says god is the foundation of peace. Which is right?

loverofhumanity said:

World peace is for all humanity not just religious people. All are included. None are rejected.

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Your religion rejects world peace because it singles out people who would like a say to how to build this world peace?

It also incorporates a prophet with whom are rejected by many religions and to have world peace, this prophet and all prophets and god cannot be the foundation of. That's diversity.

Division is making a one party system. It's fine that your religion does this. Accept people disagree but that is what your religion does.

It's not division just diversity.

Vinayaka said:

Hindus rarely have meetings. We just all go to temples and worship God. The only meetings are by temple management boards or committees. We just don't sit around and talk religion, lol.

But I project my Hindu nature into other faiths. I've sat and reflected in gurdwaras, Buddhist temples, even a couple of cathedrals. I would go anywhere where the threat of being proselytized to isn't there, just to get the feel of the place. yet to do a synagogue, Bahai center, or mosque though.

I really like the gurdwara, and the Buddhist temple. They left me alone.

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If you go to a good small Roman Catholic Church, they leave you alone too. Very peaceful.

CG Didymus said:

Well then how different are the Baha'i laws as compared to the Islamic laws that are from the Quran itself? Or, the Mosaic laws that are from their Scriptures. They had the Levitical priesthood that was ordained by their God? Why didn't these "laws" from God fix things? And since people can and do corrupt how a religion is believed and practiced why, over time, especially if they get into a position of power on a worldwide scale, wouldn't the Baha'i Faith fall into those same problems?

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I have not made an in depth study of Islam but it is clear that the Baha'i faith is as different from Islam, as Christianity is to Judaism.

Specific laws concerning prayer and fasting are worthy of mention.

Prayer in the Bahá'í Faith - Wikipedia

Baha'is are required to chose from one of three obligatory prayers to be recited daily. For example the short obligatory prayer is to be recited once per day between noon and sunset.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Prayers and Meditations by Bahá’u’lláh, Page 314

Obligatory Bahá'í prayers - Wikipedia

The Baha'i fast:

Baha'i month of fasting begins

The Mosaic laws from God didn't fix things because the Jews not only rejected them but utterly perverted them by worshipping false Gods in their Holy places, and seriously corrupting their covenant. God promised a New Covenant. Jeremiah 31:27-34

How will the Baha'i theocracy be different?

God has conferred infallibility on the Universal House of Justice because it is an institution that is founded on spiritual principles set forth by Baha'u'llah. Those principles concern the spiritual nature of our elections and the process of consultation. How the Local and National Houses of Justice differ from the Universal House of Justice is that the latter is founded on the former two, to ensure the most spiritual and able are represented. The first Universal House of Justice was elected in 1963 by representatives of 56 National Spiritual Assemblies.

The Universal House of Justice can not abrogate or change laws explicitly revealed by Baha'u'llah, but can enact new laws that are required according to the needs of a particular time. This provides the necessary flexibility to adapt to differing world circumstances in the future, but is also limited by the authorative sacred text.

Not only has the House of Justice been invested by Bahá’u’lláh with the authority to legislate whatsoever has not been explicitly and outwardly recorded in His holy Writ, upon it has also been conferred by the Will and Testament of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá the right and power to abrogate, according to the changes and requirements of the time, whatever has been already enacted and enforced by a preceding House of Justice. In this connection, He revealed the following in His Will: “And inasmuch as the House of Justice hath power to enact laws that are not expressly recorded in the Book and bear upon daily transactions, so also it hath power to repeal the same. Thus for example, the House of Justice enacteth today a certain law and enforceth it, and a hundred years hence, circumstances having profoundly changed and the conditions having altered, another House of Justice will then have power, according to the exigencies of the time, to alter that law. This it can do because that law formeth no part of the divine explicit text. The House of Justice is both the initiator and the abrogator of its own laws.” Such is the immutability of His revealed Word. Such is the elasticity which characterizes the functions of His appointed ministers. The first preserves the identity of His Faith, and guards the integrity of His law. The second enables it, even as a living organism, to expand and adapt itself to the needs and requirements of an ever-changing society.

I don't believe the Mosaic law has this degree of clarity, and the authority is invested in Priests and Judges that as individuals can be corrupted much more easily than Sacred Institutions.

Vinayaka said:

Sounds like you're pointing fingers at just 2 of the world's main faiths, and then only the more conservative radical elements of them.

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I'm pointing fingers at misconceptions of diversity and how unity in diversity means to be a lot different than that. It was an example not of an entire Faith but of how the concept of diversity has been abused.

Carlita said:

If you go to a good small Roman Catholic Church, they leave you alone too. Very peaceful.

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Yes, I have been. The Eastern Orthodox or Ukrainian Catholic ones are awesome. There used to be a ton where I am. Lots of similarities to Hinduism. My kids used to call them the 'onion' churches, because of the roofs. Too bad that they can't just leave them open any more. When I was in Mauritius most Hindu temples and Catholic churches just left the doors open all day for people to go in and pray.

Carlita said:

You're contradicting yourself.


You said anyone who does not believe in god are not part of your religion. Only the selected ones who you believe speaks of god or are called from god. Atheists don't believe in god, many (not all) pagans believe in more than one (Hinduis included), everyone? Your belief dismisses every other religion as it was questioned to you in the second or third post by @Ragan Pagan who asked why pagan gods weren't in your founder-prophecied religion.



My point exactly. Your religion says god is the foundation of peace. Which is right?



Your religion rejects world peace because it singles out people who would like a say to how to build this world peace?

It also incorporates a prophet with whom are rejected by many religions and to have world peace, this prophet and all prophets and god cannot be the foundation of. That's diversity.

Division is making a one party system. It's fine that your religion does this. Accept people disagree but that is what your religion does.

It's not division just diversity.

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Peace is for the world not the Baha'is only so there are NO preconditions.

You are confusing the Bahá'í Administration which is for Baha'is only.

Vinayaka said:

Yes, I have been. The Eastern Orthodox or Ukrainian Catholic ones are awesome. There used to be a ton where I am. Lots of similarities to Hinduism. My kids used to call them the 'onion' churches, because of the roofs. Too bad that they can't just leave them open any more. When I was in Mauritius most Hindu temples and Catholic churches just left the doors open all day for people to go in and pray.

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That's not too odd. Over here all the Churches are closed at a certain time. The Catholic Church is open longer and more days for multiple Mass and Eucharistic Adoration during Easter and Christmas.

Further south, another part of town, all the Catholic Churches are open for the homeless. Are you in the states? I didn't know other churches outside here closed their doors.

loverofhumanity said:

I'm pointing fingers at misconceptions of diversity and how unity in diversity means to be a lot different than that. It was an example not of an entire Faith but of how the concept of diversity has been abused.

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So the Hindu concept of 'unity in diversity' is wrong, according to you. So the only right 'unity in diversity' is the Bahai version? Comments like that will build bridges?

loverofhumanity said:

Peace is for the world not the Baha'is only so there are NO preconditions.

You are confusing the Bahá'í Administration which is for Baha'is only.

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That would mean we wouldn't need Bahaullah to have world peace? No god?

Carlita said:

That's not too odd. Over here all the Churches are closed at a certain time. The Catholic Church is open longer and more days for multiple Mass and Eucharistic Adoration during Easter and Christmas.

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Canada. Where are you? Here it's vandalism. There may be some churches that stay open. Apparently there is a large one downtown that does, but they have 24 hour security. The 3 or 4 bigger Hindu temples are open every day for sure, but limited hours. Mine is 9-1, and then again from 6-9.

CG Didymus said:

Here's a quote from the link you provided:

"The rebirth doctrine in Buddhism, sometimes referred to as reincarnation or metempsychosis, asserts that rebirth does not necessarily take place as another human being, but as an existence in one of the six Gati (realms) called Bhavachakra.[4] The six realms of rebirth include Deva (heavenly), Asura (demigod), Manusya (human), Tiryak (animals), Preta (ghosts), and Naraka (resident of hell)."

So what do you make of these beliefs? I personally think reincarnation is much more fair than other afterlife beliefs. It would give a soul a chance to literally "walk" in another person's shoes when reborn into a different body on the human level. Other than Baha'i Faith saying it's not true, what wrong with that?

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I do not believe we can conclusively prove or disprove a myriad theories on the after life. I used to believe in reincarnation before I became a Baha'i as after I left Christianity I spent a few years exploring the Dharmic faiths. The biggest difficultly I have with reincarnation is that it appears contrary to God's compassion. It could be like being stuck at secondary school at age 15 or 16 having to do the same class over and over again until it was perfected. The other issue is that none of the Abrahamic religions support it.

adrian009 said:

The biggest difficultly I have with reincarnation is that it appears contrary to God's compassion. It could be like being stuck at secondary school at age 15 or 16 having to do the same class over and over again until it was perfected.

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Which version of the dharmic faiths did you study, if you don't mind me asking?

Vinayaka said:

Canada. Where are you? Here it's vandalism. There may be some churches that stay open. Apparently there is a large one downtown that does, but they have 24 hour security. The 3 or 4 bigger Hindu temples are open every day for sure, but limited hours. Mine is 9-1, and then again from 6-9.

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Oh, wow. Vandalism. I can see that, though. A couple of people tried to steal the Eucharist from a couple of the Churches here in Virginia. There isn't security but they have it in the tabernacle with lock and key. I guess it depends on the parish too.

Carlita said:

Oh, wow. Vandalism. I can see that, though. A couple of people tried to steal the Eucharist from a couple of the Churches here in Virginia. There isn't security but they have it in the tabernacle with lock and key. I guess it depends on the parish too.

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Yes, very localised. I cleaned egg off our temple doors for a couple of hours one morning. We had a couple of 14 year old rascals down the street a few houses. Once they grew up nothing ever happened again. We didn't report it because that would have just drawn attention to the locality.

Vinayaka said:

Yes, very localised. I cleaned egg off our temple doors for a couple of hours one morning. We had a couple of 14 year old rascals down the street a few houses. Once they grew up nothing ever happened again. We didn't report it because that would have just drawn attention to the locality.

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True. Here, they were debating if they wanted to bring the trespasser on legal charges or leave it for The Church to handle it. I can't remember the details, but that person may have just got a fine. If Catholic, I wouldn't know the consequence beyond confession.

adrian009 said:

I do not believe we can conclusively prove or disprove a myriad theories on the after life. I used to believe in reincarnation before I became a Baha'i as after I left Christianity I spent a few years exploring the Dharmic faiths. The biggest difficultly I have with reincarnation is that it appears contrary to God's compassion. It could be like being stuck at secondary school at age 15 or 16 having to do the same class over and over again until it was perfected. The other issue is that none of the Abrahamic religions support it.

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You left Christianity, are a Christian, and now a Bahai?

Wouldn't you be in Christianity, because you are a Christian. And because you are Bahai, you can still believe in the teachings of Christ? (Trying to put together logic)

Sorry, continue.... Threw me off.

loverofhumanity said:

It must be shocking receiving the news that Christ has returned not from their own leaders but from someone outside their own religion. Yet this is how it always has been.

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Especially shocking that he returned in Persia. Why not Jerusalem? But on the other hand, so much is made about Jesus. Tell me more of how he fulfilled being the return of who was expected in Islam? And right off the bat

arthra said:

While it's true that Baha'is do not accept "reincarnation" .. We don't believe the soul "incarnates" in the first place. It is associated with the body but not part of it... We don't believe God is incarnated in the flesh as in the Christian doctrine of the incarnation.. We do believe the soul advances through the spiritual worlds of God.

The statement for instance :

Among the six realms, the human realm is considered to offer the best opportunity to practice the dharma.[12]

source:

Bhavacakra - Wikipedia

Is not necessarily opposed to our thinking as we believe our purpose in this life of the material plane is to reflect virtues and advance spiritually.

As to thy question concerning the worlds of God. Know thou of a truth that the worlds of God are countless in their number, and infinite in their range.

(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 151)

and

Thou hast, moreover, asked Me concerning the state of the soul after its separation from the body. Know thou, of a truth, that if the soul of man hath walked in the ways of God, it will, assuredly, return and be gathered to the glory of the Beloved. By the righteousness of God! It shall attain a station such as no pen can depict, or tongue describe. The soul that hath remained faithful to the Cause of God, and stood unwaveringly firm in His Path shall, after his ascension, be possessed of such power that all the worlds which the Almighty hath created can benefit through him. Such a soul provideth, at the bidding of the Ideal King and Divine Educator, the pure leaven that leaveneth the world of being, and furnisheth the power through which the arts and wonders of the world are made manifest.

(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 158)

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So if reincarnation is not from God, then from whom? Man? and not a the manifestation? Yet, in the Holy writings of some religions it says that people come back here in a different body.

Now for walking in the "ways" of God? Which ways? You've got people believing all sorts of things about God and putting into practice those things to promote that version of who they believe God is. Like Paul in the NT persecuted Christians, and you have had probably some well-meaning religious people work against the Baha'i Faith... in the name of who they think God is.

And the thing about the soul: Why put a soul through the misery of an impoverished life on this Earthly realm? They are born with nothing, get tortured, have no food, get horrible diseases and die young. What was their purpose? Why is this world so filled with people in hopeless situations?

Wouldn't it be more fair, that if you are a tyrant in one life, that you come back and see what it's like to be the one being put through the misery because of the cruelty of others?

loverofhumanity said:

...The entire purpose of the Messengers of the past 6,000 years was the culmination of the Adamic Cycle which began with Adam and ended with Muhammad and the inauguration of the Age of Unity and when there will be a World Civilisation, when there will be One Common Faith and a World Federation. It will be a glorious age I'd Unity and peace never before witnessed in our bloodstained history.

The Baha'i Cycle began with the Bab and the Universal Manifestation is Baha'u'llah. A Universal Manifestation appears only once every 500,000 years. A Universal Manifestation inaugurates a new Cycle of human history. Not a new age or era but Cycle.

We have entered a new 'Cycle' which is to last 500,000 years. The incredible spike in science and technology, greater than a hundred centuries of the past, attests to the greatness of this Day. Most have no idea this was a direct result of this Revelation but think it just happened for no reason at all.

....Objections are noted but God is the One Who wants to change this world from the hell we made it into (i.e. world wars etc) into a world that will have justice and where tyrants and oppressors won't be in charge anymore.

God has given humanity over a century to make peace and all we've done is have two world wars and still are not putting humanity first so He is raising up another generation of people who will make peace. Most of the religions He entrusted to bring peace have become embroiled in wars and bloodshed so He has raised up another people to get the job done so I can't blame Him when we have billions of religious people yet no peace. Something is wrong.

And what God wants is what is best for us and I trust Him fully.

He's God and He will not do to us what we have done to ourselves as He loves us.

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Why the Adamic Cycle? That's so Abrahamic. And isn't the Hindu traditions older than 6,000 years?

So what happened during the previous 500,000 minus the 6,000? 'Cause things were sure ugly during those last 6,000.

The hell we made it? Who's in charge? If God is real, if he's the one that created everything, why did he make it so we are so stupid as to behave as we do?

A century to make peace? If God struck the bad people down, annihilated Sodom and Gomorrah, flooded and killed almost every living thing on the planet, why doesn't he still do that? Let him rid the planet of evil people like he used to do. Oh yes, in Revelation he says he is going to do that when Jesus comes back. In fact Jesus is going to do it. So what happened?

The spike in science and technology? How many modern innovations are the result of research for military purposes?

adrian009 said:

I do not believe we can conclusively prove or disprove a myriad theories on the after life. I used to believe in reincarnation before I became a Baha'i as after I left Christianity I spent a few years exploring the Dharmic faiths. The biggest difficultly I have with reincarnation is that it appears contrary to God's compassion. It could be like being stuck at secondary school at age 15 or 16 having to do the same class over and over again until it was perfected. The other issue is that none of the Abrahamic religions support it.

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I think it more like one life time you'd be the class clown, the next the teachers pet, the next the bully, then the teacher and if you do really well you can do home schooling.

On the Abrahamic religions not supporting it.. the opposite is true also, the other religions don't support some of the things in the Abrahamic religions. So what makes them more truer than the others? Especially considering that you have said that all the religions have had man-made traditions and misinterpretations added in.