Sort of, i see hell as a place of conversion: flushing out all the karma until one's levels are enough for rebirth
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Hell
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Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Justice is when the punishment is proportionate the crime, so someone would have to cause something equivalent to eternal suffering in other to deserve eternal suffering. No one could, other than god of course. Thus the notion is an unjust one. Speaking of god, if such a being exists, wouldn't they be a being of pure love and pure logic? If so, then anything that's devoid of reason and compassion - such as the concept of eternal suffering - could not be of god.
Depends on who you ask I suppose. I don't believe in an eternal Hell. I mean a bit disproportionate, unless you're like Hitler squared maybe or something.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
No of course not.
I asked the same question to two Christians who claimed to have a personal relationship with God. So, I thought, they should know, or at least asked, on account of those personal relationships. That is important stuff.
They gave me two completely different answers.
Go figure.
Ciao
- viole
I was talking about 'Christ-like love' as mentioned at John 13:34-35 's self-sacrificing love as Jesus' love was.
The world in general today has the selfish distorted form of love as described at 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13.
Which is in sharp contrast to the definition of godly love as defined at 1 Corinthians 13:4-6.
Preacher - if you don't repent and accept the lord you will go to hell. But if you repent you will go to heaven
Atheist - so tell me about this heaven and hell, it i go to heaven what sort of people will i meet?
Preacher - people like me
Atheist - and if i go to hell what sort of people will i see there?
Preacher - people like you
Atheist - i do think you need to review your sales technique
Atheist - so tell me about this heaven and hell, it i go to heaven what sort of people will i meet?
Preacher - people like me
Atheist - and if i go to hell what sort of people will i see there?
Preacher - people like you
Atheist - i do think you need to review your sales technique
Yes, as it written at 1 Corinthians 15:50 because Jesus' spiritual brothers ( like those of Matthew 25:40 ) are called to reign with Christ in heaven as kings and priests (Revelation 5:9-10; 20:6) They, like Jesus, are resurrected in a spirit body, thus flesh ( physical ) can Not inherit the kingdom of the heavens.
As far as the humble meek who will inherit the Earth as Jesus promised at Matthew 5:5, they will be earthly subjects or citizens of God's kingdom when Jesus will have earthly subjects from sea to sea (all over Earth) Psalms 7:8, 12-14
Is Hell exothermic or endothermic?
The student's answer? Awesome:
First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate at which they are leaving, which is unlikely. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today.
Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added.
This gives two possibilities:
1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.
2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.
So which is it?
If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa during my Freshman year that, 'It will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you,' and take into account the fact that I slept with her last night, then number two must be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and has already frozen over. The corollary of this theory is that since Hell has frozen over, it follows that it is not accepting any more souls and is therefore, extinct….. …leaving only Heaven, thereby proving the existence of a divine being which explains why, last night, Teresa kept shouting 'Oh my God.'
The student's answer? Awesome:
First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate at which they are leaving, which is unlikely. I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today.
Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added.
This gives two possibilities:
1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks loose.
2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.
So which is it?
If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa during my Freshman year that, 'It will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with you,' and take into account the fact that I slept with her last night, then number two must be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and has already frozen over. The corollary of this theory is that since Hell has frozen over, it follows that it is not accepting any more souls and is therefore, extinct….. …leaving only Heaven, thereby proving the existence of a divine being which explains why, last night, Teresa kept shouting 'Oh my God.'
Which is it ? according to Scripture biblical hell is simply mankind's temporary grave for the sleeping dead.
Dead Jesus ( while in hell - Acts of the Apostles 2:27 ) was in a sleep-like state - John 11:11-14
That is why Jesus and the old Hebrew Scriptures both teach sleep in death:
- Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13; Ecclesiastes 9:5
That eternal fire stands for Gehenna. KJV Bibles translated the word Gehenna in English as hell or hellfire.
Gehenna (hellfire) was simply a garbage pit where things were destroyed forever and Not kept burning forever.
That symbolic fire for the devil and his angels is also that symbolic ' second death ' of Revelation 21:8
Jesus will destroy Satan according to Hebrews 2:14 B.
So, ' second death ' is a fitting term for ' destruction ' as in the wicked will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7
The punishment for Adam had No post-mortem penalty attached.
It was Not death plus ____________
Adam simply ' returned ' to the dust of the ground - Genesis 3:19
To me, a person can Not ' return ' to a place he never was before.
Adam went from non-life, to life, and returned back to non-life.
An after-death punishment would be double jeopardy.
We only pay for our sins once - Romans 6:7; Romans 6:23 - with one's forfeit of one's life.
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
"Heaven, as conventionally described, is a place so inane, so dull, so useless, so miserable, that nobody has ever ventured to describe a whole day in heaven, though plenty of people have described a day at the seaside."
- George Bernard Shaw
- George Bernard Shaw
jesus didn't condone, nor advocate, suicide.
Love doesn't exclude self for loving all as one.
the cross, yoke, represents the idea of two people working together as a team, or as One.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
and which do you prefer?
arthra
Baha'i
For Baha'is "hell" is being remote from God.. rather than an eternal place of punishment. The soul also progresses over time we believe in the Spiritual Worlds of God... and so while it may take longer for some to progress than others.. eventually a given soul even though they may be remote from God can progress to become closer to God..
We also believe that after the soul leaves this world that we can pray for it's progress in the next world.
The Bahá'ís regard the descriptions of heaven and hell given in some of the older religious writings as symbolic, like the Biblical story of the Creation, and not literally true. According to them, heaven is the state of perfection and hell that of imperfection, heaven is harmony with God's will and with one's fellows, and hell is the want of such harmony, heaven is the condition of spiritual life, and hell that of spiritual death. A man may be either in heaven or in hell while still in the body. The joys of heaven are spiritual joys, and the pains of hell consist in the deprivation of these joys.
(SOW - Star of the West, Star of the West - 5)
"As you know, the offering of prayers on behalf of the departed, whether Bahá'í or non-Bahá'í, is encouraged in our teachings, as such prayer are conducive to the progress of their souls in the world beyond.
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 199)
does a bahai'is believe that a soul can regress, or move away from God; even after progressively evolving/ascending?
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
It is in the minds of a particular type of sad, vicious, and petty individuals.
I was raised to believe that Hell and suffering are eternal. Now?? I hope not. That concept seems very harsh punishment for such a short time on this planet.
arthra
Baha'i
That's a good question... If the soul has spiritually progressed then the likelihood of regression is more remote.. also our prayers for the deceased have an effect and can attract the mercy of God we believe.
There is a reference in the Writings where Baha'u'llah revealed...
"How often hath a sinner attained, at the hour of death, to the essence of faith, and, quaffing the immortal draught, hath taken his flight unto the Concourse on high!
And how often hath a devout believer, at the hour of his soul's ascension, been so changed as to fall into the nethermost fire!"
~ Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 265
Of course the above refers to this life and the mercy of God.. and also.. references to hell in our Writings are symbolic of the distance from God. In a prayer Baha'u'llah has further revealed:
"May my inmost being be offered up for the sins of them that have sinned against Thee, for it is as a result of such sins that the Day Star of Thy manifold favors revealeth itself above the horizon of Thy bounty, and the clouds of Thy never-failing providence rain down their gifts upon the realities of all created things."
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 310)