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God’s Purpose For Humans and Earth

uumckk16

Active Member
robtex said:
MOD POST:

Please be mindful and respectful of one anothers thougts on this subject. I would ask you guys to work on word choice when conveying your ideas on this topic and if you feel at any time a little flustered and/or steamed in this thread adjourn to the other threads and come back to this one when you are less flustered. Please have fun debating and realize we are all on here learning together. Thank you.
:eek: :sorry1:

Okay, Bibleonly. In your original post on this thread you said:

bibleonly said:
Man, Adam was first created from the dust of the earth by God and then God breathe into his nostrils and Adam became a living soul. He then was given a test. Set up in a garden of paradise, everything was provided for him. The test would prove his love for his Creator through obedience. He fail miserably with his willful disobedience, so He as Head, the human race was removed from the presence of God and given into the hands of the enemy Satan. Adam from the choice of his own freewill prove that he loved Satan rather than God through is obedience to the Devil.
So you're saying that God's purpose was for us to prove our love for God through obediance, but that Adam failed this, and that doomed all of mankind to being slaves to Satan? I guess I just don't understand how you can live in this world and believe that we are all slaves to Satan and that nobody is seeking God. There are many religious people in the world; aren't they seeking God? Aren't you seeking God? That was the point I tried to make earlier. I'm just trying to understand what you're saying.

Do you believe in free will?
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
bibleonly said:
Super Universe said: You think Jesus walked around with the Old Testament in His hands and read from it?

Jesus was the Word that walked around the country-side. Yes he did read from it.
Look at the example in Luke chapter 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up to READ. And there was delivered unto him the BOOK of the prophet Isaiah. And when he had opened the BOOK, He found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted; to preach deliverance to the CAPTIVES, and recovering of sight to the BLIND, to set at liberty them that are bruised. To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the BOOK, and He gave it again to the minister and sat down, And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, this day is this SCIRPTURE fulfilled in your ears.

Like any other boy of the time Jesus was taught the jewish faith that His family and community followed. He did not only come upon the bible once in His life, it was something very well known to Him. Even as a child He debated the religious leaders of the time.

When Jesus pulled the evil spirit from the man, did He use the bible?
When Jesus healed the people, did He use the bible?
When He told parables to the people did He read them from the bible?
When He fed the five thousand, did He do it from the bible?

So where did this concept of forgiveness come from if not from the bible and why did Jesus preach it instead of the biblical concept of an eye for an eye?

The revelation did not change. The bible was wrong. The human writer's misunderstood. There are also places where ancient religious leaders have put in their own wishes/desires and not Gods.

Read Exodus 30:12
When you take a census of the Israelites to count them, each one must pay the LORD a ransom for his life at the time he is counted. What does God need money for?

Why would God want you to sacrifice the best of your flock? The truth is the religious leaders wanted fresh meat delivered to their doorstep so they promoted this ancient practice.

Neither the bible nor any old time religion is before God.


 

Mystic-als

Active Member
Why would God want you to sacrifice the best of your flock? The truth is the religious leaders wanted fresh meat delivered to their doorstep so they promoted this ancient practice.
interesting thought. I feel like agreeing. But I'm not sure.
I like the thought but not the statement that it is the "truth". If you said "I think" instead of "the truth is" I would have agreed whole heartedly
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
bibleonly said:
Sojourner say's ref. Jn. 1:29b: "Here is the Lamb of God (speaking of Jesus) who takes away the sin of the world." Which one of us is correct? Proof-texting doesn't work.

Christ is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin (singular) of the world. Notice that it doesn't speak of people. God isn't indicating here that all the people of all time throughout all of the world will be saved,

Revelation chapter 13:1 I stood upon the sand of the sea and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,

verse 6 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast,


verse 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome
them.

verse 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him , whose NAMES ARE NOT
WRITTEN in the BOOK of LIFE of the LAMB slain from the FOUNDATION OF
THE WORLD. If any man have an ear let him hear.


Christ is the LAMB OF GOD that takes away the sin of the world . His name shall be called JESUS for he shall save HIS People. Those that were written before the world was created.

But sin is endemic only to humanity...w/o humanity there would be no sin.

Again, predestination. I don't buy it. That theology says that God intentionally created human beings that were destined to not be God's people, and that will ultimately end up apart from God for eternity. If God is love and if grace is true, then this theology must be false.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
bibleonly said:
[SIZE=+0]Sojourner said : You can't superimpose apocalyptic thinking onto passages from Genesis.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=+0]That's exactly what we are supposed to do![/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]We are to let God's Word define His own terms, we are to let God's Word become it's own dictionary, we are to let God's Word become it's own interperter.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]As it say's in 1Corinthians chapter 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world , but the spirit which is of God: that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man;s wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches COMPARING SPIRITUAL THINGS WITH SPIRITUAL. But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him, neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]God's is a Spirit and His Word is spiritual, so we are to COMPARE His Word with His Word so that we can rightly divide the Word of Truth.[/SIZE]

I think this is a mighty irresponsible and dangerous way to approach scripture and formulate eschatology. This approach has led you to promote fear and death instead of grace and life.
 

Mystic-als

Active Member
Maybe we're here as part of the devils punishment. To show him evryday of his existance that he has been replaced
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Sojourner said : Put the bible down and think for yourself for once for only you are responsible for what you believe regardless of what you've been taught.

I didn't say this. Please look again at the thread.
 

Mystic-als

Active Member
If you won't say it I will
Put the bible down and think for yourself for once for only you are responsible for what you believe regardless of what you've been taught.
 

mattp

Member
Super Universe said:
Humans are not here to be obedient. You do not have children for the purpose of them to honor and obey you although that is certainly something you wish for.

The purpose of the earth is to be a home for the newest life experiment in the universe. This is not the only free will place, it's all free will. The whole thing! The whole universe! But the earth has more species of life than any other. This planet is the most valuable jewel of them all.

God did not come here and order us to obey His laws, the angels did because, like any faithful servant, they could not bear constantly watching our misguided faith go toward the wind, moon, and sun.

Why not begin our existence in heaven? But you did. Not this fragile temporary human form that you now hold on to so tightly but your everlasting soul, the real you comes from God, and only it can survive death. What human lives forever?

But the soul is but a spark, a tiny piece that must grow and develop. That is your job. That is your human purpose. To experience life, experience this wonderful planet, learn so that your human personality becomes something worth saving.


that is very interesting, can you tell me why you believe that
 

mattp

Member
Mystic-als said:
If you won't say it I will
Put the bible down and think for yourself for once for only you are responsible for what you believe regardless of what you've been taught.

how can you learn about God without using the bible?
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
mattp said:
how can you learn about God without using the bible?

How can you learn about God without using the bible?

Find a hilltop in a place where there is little or no light diffusion and look up at the night sky. What do you see? God created the universe. Why do you ignore it?

There is so much that we do not understand. Everything is not contained in one book because it's simply not possible yet some think that the bible is all any one person will ever need.

If your child gets sick do you look in the bible?
If your vehicle does not work, is the answer in Matthew?
When the bill collector comes do you shout "Moneylender get away from me!"

No, because the bible is first grade stuff and we've moved on since then.

The bible has some good history and it has some truth but so much of it has been distorted over the years. People should trust themselves more than they trust the bible. You know inside that you should do no harm, you do not need the bible, myself, or a preacher to tell you that.

Do you think God, the creator of a trillion worlds and a billion suns, the Creator of all life in the universe, First Source, the source of gravity, the Creator of the eleven dimensions, the Master of angels, the Creator of space/time, the source of all energy and matter, the Grand Designer, the Supreme Being, can be contained in one book written by ignorant humans thousands of years ago?

Do you think even now that we are the only thing in the universe? Us? Humans who allow other humans to starve while we upgrade to a new SUV?

In the last one thousand years what have we learned from the bible? Sure each person's biblical experience grows and matures as they age but what new idea, what new revelation has come from the bible to our species?

I tell you now that revelation is ongoing through human history. It has never stopped. It's happened recently with the Urantia Book and it is happening now with the Wingmakers.

How can you learn about God without using the bible? Don't close your eyes, open them. Instead of placing them down in an old book raise them to see what is all around you. God is not in a human book or human built church, He is in everything around you. See Him in a garden, in an orchard, and in the birds that sing. Watch children play on a playground for they are more Godlike than anything in Genesis.

The easiest way for me to explain why I believe what I believe is that every experience I've had leads me to believe this is the closest to the truth. I can easily admit that I do not have all the answers but I have no doubt about God. He exists and He created the universe.
 

bibleonly

Member
umckk16 said :So you're saying that God's purpose was for us to prove our love for God through obedience, but that Adam failed this, and that doomed all of mankind to being slaves to Satan?
Yes, that’s what the scriptures declare!

umckk16 said : I guess I just don't understand how you can live in this world and believe that we are all slaves to Satan and that nobody is seeking God.

The question should be ask: Why do men need to seek God in the first place? Then the second part of your question can be fully developed.

umckk16 said : There are many religious people in the world; aren't they seeking God?
 

bibleonly

Member
Why do men seek God?

Because inherently they know that something is wrong with their relationship with their Creator. They have lost communication with Him. According to scriptures in Genesis 1 when God first created the universe, God declares that he would create man after His own likeness. Verse 26 And god said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: verse 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. God who is King of kings and LORD of lords, appoints Adam His servant to have kingship to rule in the newly form earthly kingdom. Adam indeed is made in the image and likeness of his King who rules over all.Verse 28 And God blessed them, and God said to them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it(rule over it) and have dominion(reign)over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth. Adam by God’s decree was appointed King (ruler) over the earth. Adam as the appointed king was to reign over all that God put under his authority. Adam as God’s viceroy, was to keep his subjects under God’ reign. If any of them were to rebel and violate his Majesty’s commands then Adam was, by the power vested in him, to bring them into subjection by any means. Failure to subjugate, put down any treason found in his kingdom would jeopardize his authority. This rebellion would indicate an insurrection had occurred against Adam and his throne. The traitor who had conspired this revolt was aspiring his place on the throne. All that was needed to succeed his place on the throne would be the death of the king and/or Adam being dethrone by God because of disobedience. By right of conquest the throne could be seized by force and violently taken away. The heirs to the throne, Adam’s children (all of mankind), instead of finding themselves reigning, they could find themselves in subjection to the one who had led the revolt against their father Adam. Instead of Kings they would become his slaves. This ruthless Depot who planned the fall of the newly appointed king, namely Adam, now has raise himself up king to be worship by his conquer people.
Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made: and he said to the woman, has God truly said, you shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Verse 4 And the serpent said to the woman, you shall not die: For God does know that in the day you eat of it, then your eyes shall be open and ye shall be as gods knowing good and evil.

Genesis 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that you have done? And the woman said, the serpent deceived me, and I did eat



Adam as God’s viceroy was given his decree of what would be expected of him as king of God’s creation.

Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat of it, you shall surely die.


What was required was perfect obedience to the Almighty King of creation. Nothing less would be tolerated, in fact Death would be required if found in disobedience. Disobedience to a command of a king, let alone the King of kings is known as treason, rebellion and insurrection to the Sovereign. Any obstinate behavior, any willful defiance of the King’s command cannot go unpunished in any kingdom.

Obedience on the other hand proves your allegiance, loyalty and devotion to your
Highness.
Jesus said in John 14:16 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Verse 21 He that has my commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me.
God defines how we are to show our love for him. 1John 5:3 This is love for God, that we obey his commandments:

Willing submission would show the honor due to his Potentate. Homage could be shown by compliance to his Supreme Ruler. Love can be express in his faithfulness to his King’s orders, even as a soldiers carries out the command of his superiors, even if this would require risking his life in the line of duty. Nothing can come in the way on the commandment of the King, not even your life. Death rather than disobedience to his Majesty’s wishes is how to express the love that he felt for Him. God’s honor, God’s adoration, and God’s praise was violated through disobedience.

Disloyalty, unfaithfulness and infidelity was what Adam conveyed through his disgraceful act of disobedience.

What was once created good, Evil now presides in its place.
After he formed man from the dust: Genesis 1: 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.

Adam, who didn’t need the use of clothes: because Integrity, righteousness and goodness clothe him.

Adam, who once walked in innocence, is now full of guilt, shame and condemnation.

Genesis 3:17 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked;

Sin now covers the heart of Adam. Uprightness, virtue, and purity were strip away for all to see. Exposed was his unworthy, vile, and wretched condition. What embarrassment he now was experiencing. Adam needed to hide the shame he was feeling. Genesis 3:17 and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Why do men seek God?

The need to regain wholeness: the need to regain completeness and the need to become perfect again.

Adam finds a solution to hide his embarrassment: they made themselves their own covering for sin. They used fig leaves to camouflage their shame.
The used these band-aid to blot out the remembrance of their transgression. They tried to hush up their guilt by the work of their own hands, sewing the fig leaves together.

But now the question should be asked:

Do men seek God?
 

uumckk16

Active Member
bibleonly said:
Why do men seek God?

The need to regain wholeness: the need to regain completeness and the need to become perfect again.


I almost agree with this statement. I do believe many people seek God because it helps them to feel more complete and to become better people. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree when it comes to original sin.

bibleonly said:
Do men seek God?
Yes. Not everyone does. But do some people seek God? Of course! That is the point I have been trying to make now for several posts. I'd say that's probably the main reason a lot of people go to churches or synagogues or mosques or wherever else.
 

bibleonly

Member
Do men seek God?


The scriptures say’s in Romans 3:11 There is none that seeks after God.
We see this clearly in Genesis 3:7, right after disobedience had strip away their honor exposing their shame. Sin revealed itself in that they saw themselves naked; unworthy to stand in the presence of God their King, Guilty of the sin that they had committed. Now the sentence of Death loomed upon them.

So to hide the nakedness that they now were experiencing, do they seek after God? NO! Not a chance. Instead of seeking and begging forgiveness for the sin that they just committed, instead of pleading for mercy for the treacherous crime they had committed, They HIDE themselves from the presence of the LORD.

The scripture say’s in Genesis 3:7 when they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife HID themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.

Adam the first sinner never sought after God, Never did he pray that his life would be spared from the Death sentence that he now rightly deserves. First, he covers himself, no seeking of God’s forgiveness there. Instead what he did was hide the sin from their eyes that had just been open. Like all men after them, Men seek their own way to silence the consciousness of the guilt of sin. Men hid themselves from the knowledge of the Most High God. They never seek after Him on their own accord.
So Many different gods of worship are sought after, but the LORD God they hide themselves. Many different religions are form to hide themselves from the presence of the LORD. Many different philosophies, are born out of the mind of man to alleviate the knowledge of LORD God, Many different customs, practices and habits are cling to, so that they my appease their consciousness of sin. Not one of these ways will pay for the price that was demanded of God for the sin that had been committed. All of these ways are a way to cover up the memory of their true condition before God. All of these ways are a way to hid from the Presence of God.

Do men seek God? NO, they cover up their own nakedness through their religions and false gods whom they worship. The answer is NO, they HIDE themselves from the LORD with their religions that they have invented. For the Thrid time NO, what they do is, they seek for a way to HIDE themselves and then believe they are seeking after god.
God say’s in
Isaiah 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
According to LDS doctrine, "Men are that they might have joy." God's reason for creating us was 100% unselfish.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Katzpur said:
According to LDS doctrine, "Men are that they might have joy." God's reason for creating us was 100% unselfish.
You mean he want us to enjoy our donuts and 6-pack-beer? :confused:
:no:
:yes:
:thud:
 

uumckk16

Active Member
bibleonly said:
Do men seek God? NO, they cover up their own nakedness through their religions and false gods whom they worship. The answer is NO, they HIDE themselves from the LORD with their religions that they have invented. For the Thrid time NO, what they do is, they seek for a way to HIDE themselves and then believe they are seeking after god.
I'm going to bow out of this argument. Both of us are just repeating ourselves, so it's going nowhere.

katzpur said:
According to LDS doctrine, "Men are that they might have joy." God's reason for creating us was 100% unselfish.
I like that :)
 

bibleonly

Member
SUPER UNIVERSE said: Like any other boy of the time Jesus was taught the jewish faith that His family and community followed. He did not only come upon the bible once in His life, it was something very well known to Him. Even as a child He debated the religious leaders of the time.

Jesus wasn’t like any other boy: Matthew 1:20 for that which is conceived in her (Mary) is of the HOLY SPIRIT.
Jesus was God according to John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the WORD WAS GOD.
 
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