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How are these Great Beings explained?

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
That's not the issue. The issue is in order to complete this goal, everyone has to agree with you. They will want to keep their language, traditions, and cultures because that is their religion. Many religions have clergy and priest. Understanding that people can find unity and love that you mentioned through these means doesn't mean they are not at peace with anyone else.

However, you wanted to take these things out to bring old to new. You are saying we need love but not giving concrete examples of what love means by relating it to people and things in life that define that love.

They can keep their language, traditions and cultures I see no problem with that. We don't have priesthood but we still have administrative bodies where people can serve the community if they are elected.

Love for all humanity means to serve it. To free people from orejudicecso tyey can accept each other as a family, that is love. To educate our children and youth in virtues and spirituality is love.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
They can keep their language, traditions and cultures I see no problem with that. We don't have priesthood but we still have administrative bodies where people can serve the community if they are elected.

Love for all humanity means to serve it. To free people from orejudicecso tyey can accept each other as a family, that is love. To educate our children and youth in virtues and spirituality is love.


How do you do that when traditions, Languages, and cultures conflict? If we ca keep our TLC, then it would be best not to change our religious systems since a lot of TLCs are based on the past to present not just the present on forward.
 
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Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
They can keep their language, traditions and cultures I see no problem with that. We don't have priesthood but we still have administrative bodies where people can serve the community if they are elected.

Love for all humanity means to serve it. To free people from orejudicecso tyey can accept each other as a family, that is love. To educate our children and youth in virtues and spirituality is love.

If you are changing old to new and disregarding traditions, languages, and culture (TLC) that define love and peace to various religions, then what you are doing will not work.

Love does not work solo. It takes TLC to get to that point and define it. Since one person's TLC is not another person's TLC regardless the same names, they conflict. Because they conflict, how do you reconcile differenes by

1. having all people agree

2. incorporating all religions

3. not disregarding their TLC
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
How do you do that when traditions, Languagea, and cultures conflict? If we ca keep our TLC, then it would be best not to chamge our religious systems since a lot of TLCs are based on the past to prezent not the ither w

Multi-Cultural countries seem to manage quite well in having diversity and yet no conflict.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
You're welcome. You are also contradicting yourself. First you say Bahaullah is changing old to new because the old systems don't work. Then you are telling us we can keep our systems if we like and you see no problems in this.
To try and answer your questions. Humanity has problems but it is up to humanity how or if it wants to address these problems or not. We are building an alternative model to offer to humanity but we can only offer. We want humanity to find peace but it's up to humanity not us. If thry want to make their own plan we're happy and if thry want Baha'u'llah's Order we're happy too so it's up to them what they want and we respect that.

If Bahaullah (and Bahai) respect humanity and what they do for themselves, why fix them? Leave it to humanity and TLC to work things out.

Reconciliation I think can come about if we build on what we have in common. We have our common humanity. We are all human beings so instead of putting one country or religion or race above the others we can just put humanity first.

1. We have things in common but I also feel we should look at our differences. A religious person's TLC is different than another religious person's TLC. Many of which conflict with each other. Nothing wrong with that.

2. Humanity is made up of differences rather than similarities. I can't imagine everyone being the same. I see people following their own way without resort to violence or anything of that nature.

3. That's not the issue. It's just the Bahaullah changing old to new is hard to swallow because you are not letting people be but actually changing other people's TLC to one defined by Bahaullah.

Everyone can keep his own culture and tradition. As long as no one tries to dominate or own the world. The world belongs to the human race to equally share.

1. If this happens, why would Bahaullah need to change old to new?

2. I mean, you say that the old religions aren't working anymore, so if we can keep our TLC without violence, what is the point of Bahaullah's claims?

3. If his claims are to change because of violence, why not let people change themselves instead?

It's God's Plan to send Baha'u'llah with a Plan to unite humanity and bring the Kingdom of God as promised in the Lord's Prayer. That is a promise God made to humanity that the 'wolf and the lamb' the antagonistic sects and nations would lie down together and become 'one shepherd and one fold'.

Sounds like Bahai and Christianity rolled in one. Bahai agree. Christians don't. How do you reconcile these differences regardless the similarities?

The peace that humanity might achieve is a cessation of war but the peace God is bringing is a unity of hearts.

Without individual and different TLC that's based on different foundations rather than similar ones, unity can't be brought to the hearts. Many religions and their TLC does not involve god. So this is a Bahai claim but in order for it to be true to the other party (hence peace with the other party) that other party has to agree.

We are building a new system because Baha'u'llah has stated that this system is 'lamentably defective'.

This is contradicting your statements of other people can keep their TLC and beliefs. Either they can or can't. Similarities don't hid the differences. Most religions understand we have differences regardless the wars. Some bring peace with our differences (UU) others bring war (Catholic and Pagan)... Bahai, though...

1. Unless people choose, nothing can happen. It's up to people.

People or Bahuallah? Who is fixing the system from old to new?

2. A Revelation given by God is different from culture and tradition. Culture and tradition are how it's understood and followed but the original Revelation exists independently. The Quran is a Revelation from God. It exists as an entity by itself. Many different traditions right or wrong have sprung from Muslims believing in it but the Quran is the Centre to which all turn and is independent.

TLC (Traditions, language, and culture) is what defines religions and how each religion defines love which is different than the person beside him.

I was trying to explain to @adrian that our expressions (our TLC) is the same as our beliefs. They cannot be separated.

If you only kept god religions, then even though you still conflict, at least you have somewhat the same source. You are using godless religions too. So, god can't be the foundation because not everyone agrees or even knows a god exist nonetheless the Bahai god out of thousands.

3. We are building a new system. The World Order of Baha'u'llah. The old order is crumbling and we have no intention of fixing it as it cannot be fixed. One cannot fix a cancer with a bandaid. There is so much corruption that it is only a matter of time before the old system crumbles completely like the Roman Empire. Nothing can be done for it.

Wait, if it can't be fixed, what is Bahaullah's message about?

Why would you say he is building old to new if it won't work?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Multi-Cultural countries seem to manage quite well in having diversity and yet no conflict.

They don't have someone who wants to fix old to new. They co-exist without their tenants saying they need to make anew something of someone else's religion.

What's more, many religions who can live peacefully with others do not have other religions that are not in their geographic area or colonized influential religion in their own religion as a belief in and of itself.

Bahai and UU work on different methods of seeing the world. It's interesting, nonetheless.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
They don't have someone who wants to fix old to new. They co-exist without their tenants saying they need to make anew something of someone else's religion.

What's more, many religions who can live peacefully with others do not have other religions that are not in their geographic area or colonized influential religion in their own religion as a belief in and of itself.

Bahai and UU work on different methods of seeing the world. It's interesting, nonetheless.

Co-exisiting is what it's all about. Diversity is part and parcel of humanity. The Baha'is promote co-existence not a system where everyone has to give up anything.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Co-exisiting is what it's all about. Diversity is part and parcel of humanity. The Baha'is promote co-existence not a system where everyone has to give up anything.

You said the old systems do not work. TLC are the old systems.

How do you have peace if you are changing the old TLC religions to new religion without TLC as the foundation of its beliefs?
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
You're welcome. You are also contradicting yourself. First you say Bahaullah is changing old to new because the old systems don't work. Then you are telling us we can keep our systems if we like and you see no problems in this.


If Bahaullah (and Bahai) respect humanity and what they do for themselves, why fix them? Leave it to humanity and TLC to work things out.



1. We have things in common but I also feel we should look at our differences. A religious person's TLC is different than another religious person's TLC. Many of which conflict with each other. Nothing wrong with that.

2. Humanity is made up of differences rather than similarities. I can't imagine everyone being the same. I see people following their own way without resort to violence or anything of that nature.

3. That's not the issue. It's just the Bahaullah changing old to new is hard to swallow because you are not letting people be but actually changing other people's TLC to one defined by Bahaullah.



1. If this happens, why would Bahaullah need to change old to new?

2. I mean, you say that the old religions aren't working anymore, so if we can keep our TLC without violence, what is the point of Bahaullah's claims?

3. If his claims are to change because of violence, why not let people change themselves instead?



Sounds like Bahai and Christianity rolled in one. Bahai agree. Christians don't. How do you reconcile these differences regardless the similarities?



Without individual and different TLC that's based on different foundations rather than similar ones, unity can't be brought to the hearts. Many religions and their TLC does not involve god. So this is a Bahai claim but in order for it to be true to the other party (hence peace with the other party) that other party has to agree.



This is contradicting your statements of other people can keep their TLC and beliefs. Either they can or can't. Similarities don't hid the differences. Most religions understand we have differences regardless the wars. Some bring peace with our differences (UU) others bring war (Catholic and Pagan)... Bahai, though...



People or Bahuallah? Who is fixing the system from old to new?



TLC (Traditions, language, and culture) is what defines religions and how each religion defines love which is different than the person beside him.

I was trying to explain to @adrian that our expressions (our TLC) is the same as our beliefs. They cannot be separated.

If you only kept god religions, then even though you still conflict, at least you have somewhat the same source. You are using godless religions too. So, god can't be the foundation because not everyone agrees or even knows a god exist nonetheless the Bahai god out of thousands.



Wait, if it can't be fixed, what is Bahaullah's message about?

Why would you say he is building old to new if it won't work?

Th current system is built not upon co-existence but on nationalism or racism, communism or a particular religious system.

We see two process in the world. One of disintegration where old ideas are being challenged and torn down and new ideas rolled out instead. One example is the status of women. This has come to the forefront of all governments and the idea that women are inferior or not equal in status to men is being challenged with the new ideas of equality.

This is an example of the old world being torn down and a new world emerging. It's not visible unless you look for it. Another example is racism. At one time black slaves and racial segregation was acceptable in America and South Africa but that was the old world. Now in the new world being built ideologically, racism is being outlawed everywhere even in sport.

Can you see the twin processes of disintegration of the old order or way we thought on the one hand and the new order coming through?

Multiculturalism is another phenomenon of the new order. Before we had the Australian white policy. Now its been replaced by multicultural aspirations. You see once again the turning against the old and adopting the new? These are the teachings of Baha'u'llah but people are not aware of it. Yet they themselves not being Baha'is are throwing out what disagrees with what Baha'u'llah taught and introducing His teachings themselves because they like them.

It's the people of the world who are taking from Baha'u'llah's teachings and building a new world not us. We are only about 8 million.

Each culture can change the way they see women. They make the changes not us. Human Rights organisations pressure governments like Saudi Arabia to give women the vote and allow them to have a drivers license not us. Fifa promotes anti racism views at its venues not us. This is the world wanting to change towards Baha'u'llah's teachings. And the ones it doesn't want it won't change and we can live with that after all it's their world.

As I said we are building up,the Baha'i system but it's only for Baha'is. If the time ever comes when humanity prefers our system to theirs then they are welcome but otherwise it's 'live and let live'.
There's no conflict. We do exist side by side. We are not coming to fix you guys.

So to recapitulate. We are not changing or fixing anyone. It's the people themselves who have suddenly in this new age turned against racism, want human rights and want equality between men and women, They just happen to be basic Bahá'í principles but it's the people who are adapting them to their own cultures and including them in their own traditions. And they don't seem to feel any conflict. Only those who want to dominate the world don't agree with co existence but most of humanity are happy to live and let live. We don't make any changes. People who want to change do so.

The concept of the unity of mankind are words spoken by Baha'u'llah yet we find in the Catholic document called the 'Pontifical Council for Inter religious dialogue' this intriguing statement. religions are adopting how they see it. And that's fine. That's great! The church acknowledges the oneness of mankind and the oneness of religion. We have so much in common. We can be different too but our common humanity is agreed upon universally yet it is not practiced everywhere yet which is why we don't not have peace.

28. The mystery of the unity of all mankind

First comes the fact that the whole of humankind forms one family, due to the common origin of all men and women, created by God in his own image. Correspondingly, all are called to a
common destiny, the fullness of life in God. Moreover, there is but one plan of salvation for humankind, with its centre in Jesus Christ, who in his incarnation "has united himself in a
certain manner to every person" (RH 13; cf. GS 22.2). Finally, there needs to be mentioned the active presence of the Holy Spirit in the religious life of the members of the other religious
traditions. From all this the Pope concludes to a "mystery of unity" which was manifested clearly at Assisi, "in spite of the differences between religious professions."(13)
 
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loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
You said the old systems do not work. TLC are the old systems.

How do you have peace if you are changing the old TLC religions to new religion without TLC as the foundation of its beliefs?

What I meant was the old systems based on racism, sexual inequality and oppression of human rights is being rejected by humanity and being replaced by equality between men and women, human rights for all and racial equality.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Yes, I know a little about it... And the decisions they make are considered the infallible Word of God unless the ruling doesn't work and then they can change it. How is that different then the Catholics and their infallible Popes? Same idea, but how's that working out?

I haven't studied the papal doctrine of infallibility, but interestingly this doctrine arose around the time Baha'u'llah sent a tablet to Pope Pius IX declaring to be the Promised One.

Papal infallibility - Wikipedia

Baha’u’llah Warns Germany, Russia--and the Pope

The Universal House of Justice was established in 1963 by the Hands of the Cause of God. Its been excellent.

The main difference is that the infallibility of the authority and guarantee of God's guidance for the Universal House of Justice can be directly linked to the writings of Baha'u'llah, whereas the Popes authority does not come from Christ. Another difference is that for the Baha'is the authority is invested in an institution rather than an individual, and no individual member of the Universal House of Justice has anymore authority than anyone else.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
In a country of a billion people and a city of 20 million, where 80% are Hindus, just whom would you be expecting to visit a tourist attraction, the Jewish?

You never can tell.:D

These temples are the Baha'is gift to humanity. Anyone can enter and attend the devotional meetings. What will be heard are the sacred writings of main religions without anything added. No preaching or talks during the devotional meetings.:)
 
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Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Haha. Me? Christian? :rolleyes: I rather practice in the Church if I had a choice. I don't believe I have inherited sin as taught, so no reason to be saved. Don't understand how a person can die for you over 2,000 years ago. Really not diggin' the heaven, hell, and judgement stories. Mainly, I must believe christ Is god in order for me to be in union with the Church and Christians as a whole. Can't be a so-so christian all because everyone has a spirit.

Maybe you don't call yourself Christian but the teachings of Christ and the Church appear to be an enormous part of who you are.:)

To each his own? That doesn't make sense as a Catholic. If you say you're protestant (outside Lutheran) I'd see what you mean. Though, ever since I started understanding the nature of the Eucharist/communion-where people commune, I always wondered why and how people can commune if the Lord's Supper is just a symbol to them and bread and wine doesn't bring people together as did the Lord's Supper. Unless the Supper was symbolic?

My point is: The Eucharist is a communal meal that when people come together (body of christ) and it is more than one person (as said in scripture), god is made present in the supper that joins us together as a Mass. Nothing mystical about the Eucharist. That's all protestant thinking.

I have no identification with any particular church or denomination. I am a Baha'i. I believe in God, Jesus, and the bible. I'm comfortable with the myriad of understandings and experiences that Christians have of their faith. Christians no longer identify with many Jewish customs and sacraments. Baptism and communion have lost their importance for me, but I appreciate the profound beauty of them both from personal experience and the allegory.

Confession means repentance to god and god only.

Repentance means asking god and god only to forgive you of your sins so you can back together with the Body of Christ, remember your baptism (conversion as a christian), and remember your conviction statements that you believe in Church doctrine-called confirmation.

You don't repent/confess to god of your sins?

That's the problem. You think it's the priest. Catholics know it's god. You are seeing outside. Catholics see inside. You hear the priest saying "I absolve you." Catholics listen to the priest who says "god absolves you." Catholics believe in god.

The difference between protestants and catholics is that the priest acts in the role of christ (hence his role in Mass). Protestant churches, pastors do not. So when the priest says I absolve you, he is just saying the words christ would say to the pentinent. In some Catholics they need that physical reasurrance that god and god only forgives them.

I don't understand how anyone else who isn't Roman Catholic (excluding Orthodox Catholic even Lutheran-who are protestants) does not see that.

Thank you for explaining that to me Carlita. The only aspect that perplexes me is by what authority a priest can speak for God. Did God give him that authority? Of course we all need to pray to God for forgiveness and only God can forgive according to Baha'is.

There are many prayers in our writings regards forgiveness:

I beg Thy forgiveness, O my God, and implore pardon after the manner Thou wishest Thy servants to direct themselves to Thee. I beg of Thee to wash away our sins as befitteth Thy Lordship, and to forgive me, my parents, and those who in Thy estimation have entered the abode of Thy love in a manner which is worthy of Thy transcendent sovereignty and well beseemeth the glory of Thy celestial power.

O my God! Thou hast inspired my soul to offer its supplication to Thee, and but for Thee, I would not call upon Thee. Lauded and glorified art Thou; I yield Thee praise inasmuch as Thou didst reveal Thyself unto me, and I beg Thee to forgive me, since I have fallen short in my duty to know Thee and have failed to walk in the path of Thy love.

The Bab


Actually in the Baha'i dispensation God accepts the intercession of children on behalf of their parents.

O Lord! In this Most Great Dispensation Thou dost accept the intercession of children in behalf of their parents. This is one of the special infinite bestowals of this Dispensation. Therefore, O Thou kind Lord, accept the request of this Thy servant at the threshold of Thy singleness and submerge his father in the ocean of Thy grace, because this son hath arisen to render Thee service and is exerting effort at all times in the pathway of Thy love. Verily, Thou art the Giver, the Forgiver and the Kind! –
Abdu’l-Baha, Baha’i Prayers

By confirmation not belief. Try again.:p

Ha ha. Perhaps I'm a Christian by belief and not confirmed! I never experienced confirmation as a Christian. However I went through a full emersion baptism after telling a congregation of over 300 why I wanted to give my life to the Lord. Suppose that was a confirmation of sorts.:)

SGI doesn't do that. A lot of Churches don't.

That's good then. Baha'is are forbidden to proselytize.

If I were a Hindu, I wouldn't. That's like when I was a practicing Catholic and my southern baptist friends invited me to their church. The sermon was geared towards Catholics and free masons and how they are sin and not real christians. It was a huge insult. I don't go where teachings are preached that are insulting and/or misinterprets the Christian faith. Hence my sig.

Everyone is difference.

All that you would experience in a Baha'i temple or devotional meeting are the words of the sacred texts themselves. No talks or preaching.

I wish the Church was accepting. They even want to "cure" people. Have programs to do it too. It's sad couples can't get married in their own Church when Christ didn't talk about marriage between two males and two females in the bible. It's not wrong, it's just not in there. How could it be wrong if christ never spoke about it.

The only teaching of Jesus that really affected me in regards to sexual morality applies to everyone:

“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery'. But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:27-28

I don't believe the soul passes through the next world. I believe a soul (I'll say spirits) stay on earth (not the next world) to take care of their loved ones.

The Baha'i writings speak about the nature of our soul and the world beyond:

When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation. (Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157)


It is similar to the condition of a human being in the womb, where his eyes are veiled, and all things are hidden away from him. Once he is born out of the uterine world and entereth this life, he findeth it, with relation to that of the womb, to be a place of perceptions and discoveries, and he observeth all things through his outer eye. In the same way, once he hath departed this life, he will behold, in that world whatsoever was hidden from him here: but there he will look upon and comprehend all things with his inner eye. (Abdu’l-Bahá, Selections from the Writings of Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 170)


How do you analyze your belief unless you pretend that your beliefs are false in order to see other people's point of view. Analyzing beliefs as "other people's beliefs" and looking into yourself and your belief isn't what I meant, though.

The principle of detachment comes to mind, also an essential theme in the Baha'i writings. There are probably parallels with Buddhism with avoiding attachment as a path to overcoming suffering.

We become Buddhas by practice. Each sect in Mahayana Buddhism has their own way. Zen feels that to attach to anything (god included) is going away from being enlightened. Nichiren Shonin taught to chant the Dharma to a reflection of ourselves in the Dharma/Gohonzon to reach that state of enlightenment. Others prefer meditation as that's The Buddha's main practice and foundation of all other practices.

Incarnation, have to get back to you..going to work soon.

Wanted correct you. Reincarnation is a hindu teaching. Christians believe they have one life here and then most believe they will go to heaven and be with god forever. Others believe that god will make a new earth and everything starts anew with gods forever presence.

Buddhism believes each person is trapped in the realm of life and death (suffering). We dont go through lifetimes as a means to enlightenment. Its not a journey to moska as in hindu but a full Understanding and Wisdom of the nature of suffering, cause, and end. Buddhas stay on earth to help others (Bodhisattvas to be buddhas) others are enlightened themselves and no longer in the cycle.

They actually die just as The Buddha died. There is no eternal spirit and eternal life. Its understanding and practice not belief. Totally different worldview than christianity, bahai, and hinduism who believe in god(s).

Interesting. You are rekindling my interest in Buddhism.

What do you make of this?

Rebirth (Buddhism) - Wikipedia

I wanna challenge your belief.

If Bahaullah is to you is what Christ means to others, and you say you are Christian, wouldn't be against Christian belief to replace christ when christ said he is the last prophet (or god, whichever) to be sent to bring the gentiles and jews together to his father?

If Bahaullah and Christ are side by side, then regardless the denomination, that doesn't mirror Christian belief and christ being the only way to god and no other prophet after him.

Oh, also no other prophet not even Muhammad have the same connection as Christians claim christ has with his father. So, if Moses didn't have the same connection as christ to god, why would Bahaullah?

Where did Christ say He was the last prophet? Did He not speak of His Return? Perhaps His Return is like John the Baptist being the return of Elijah.

Christ or Christos refers to the Messiah or Anointed One. So it is Jesus the Christ, meaning Jesus the Messiah. It is through the Christ or Messiah we are saved. Didn't Moses also save His people?

Just because Moses didn't say it, doesn't mean He didn't have it. Jesus developed our understanding of His relationship with God. The people in the time of Moses didn't have the capacity for this teaching, and reading John, it was clearly hard for His disciples too.:)
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Thanks for your response. So you are interested in learning about unfortunate souls such as myself who go wandering into false religions.:D

I believe God to be the one person who knows everything. I believe even Christ did not know everything.
KJV Matthew.
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Agreed.

As God knows all things and cannot unknow them then being Omniscient meant I knew who Christ was in the
Father. Why the Holy thing is called the Son of God ad did not know everything. He cannot lie for he was
like God and Adam when originally created both born without sin.
So when I learn about other faiths it helps me understand how they came into being.

Like you I believe that Adam was probably a real and Holy person like Christ. However the story appears allegorical and so I do not believe a serpent literally talked to Eve, and was condemned to crawl for eternity on his belly. An important part of the story is about consequences of following or rejecting God's teachings.

Of course Noah and Abraham were important prophets too, but what do we know of their teachings? Perhaps they had followers too.

Is that how you became Baha'i follower? Was it just talking about their beliefs?

Over 30 years ago, I distanced myself from the church and sought the truth. The words "seek and ye shall find" and "The truth shall set you free" were very important to me. When I prayed from the depths of my heart to be led to a Faith community of like minded people, the opportunity to attend a Baha'i meeting came soon after. Having investigated this Faith community for nearly a year, decided to become a Baha'i. Not long after I had several dreams and experiences that basically confirmed my Faith. Just as importantly, The Baha'i Faith made sense to me, in ways that Christianity never did.

Acts 2:14-21

Christ is the Son of God to me the Messiah who brought the truth. How do you feel they differ?

Baha'u'llah is the Father.:)

I thought you were just weary of the conversation having no direct thoughts about what it was I
wanted to know. I think it would be good to know how you left one way and went to another
when warned about doing that. How do you relate one to the other? I personally find me faith is
built upon God. I find no way to build what you have become with who Christ is or the God he served.

Christ changed from the moment of his resurrection. What was mortal (that which could die human flesh) became immortal
(that which could not die a resurrected flesh) so Christ will return in the same resurrected body as he ascended into heaven
with. All flesh will be changed to that which cannot die. The Soul of man his living soul came directly from the breath
of the eternal living God.
7.And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Only man received his life from the breath of God. So Christ was raised in a new body which could not die.

You know my views on the resurrection but I appreciate how important these are to many Christians.

Gods unerring Spirit. Do I identify with a denomination of Christianity?
I believe true Christianity is really Judaism. So that all who believe Christ is the Son of God the Messiah
are really Jews the New Covenant which allows the Gentiles to come to God. I do not believe all Christian
faiths uphold the central truth of One God as in loving God with all your heart not Jesus Christ.
So it is difficult for myself to acknowledge any one Christian denomination because Faith is about a personal
relationship with God. Since I was a small child the LORDS presence has always been with me. Whist I believe
in Christ it has always brought the presence of the true God. I did ask God once why my family and I, all
believed in God and why I felt his presence.

I agree that Christianity is the truest branch of Judaism, as the Baha'i faith is the truest branch of Christianity. However those Jews now call themselves Christians, and this Christian calls himself a Baha'i.

Every day and every hour I am with the LORD and I speak with him all the time.
My very first teachings were those of Moses and the LORD saving his people. As I grew older the LORD
reminded me of all those teachings he opened my heart and my mind to those scriptures. This helped me
to know that no matter how wise a person may thing he is, we are never wiser than God and all things
we see and do rely solely on God. When I look up a scripture it comes from within me and I then search
that scripture by book and chapter to share. I don't question Gods truth, I question and examine myself.
So people like yourself who go to other gods/beliefs I want to learn why. When writing this, these words
came to mind. King James Bible
Their sorrows shall be multiplied that hasten after another god:
their drink offerings of blood will I not offer,
nor take up their names into my lips.

The only problem is my God looks very similar to your God.

I believe one true God and I believe in the power and presence of Gods Holy Spirit something we see
from beginning to the end in the OT and the NT. I also believe Jesus said "Do as I do".
So I would never attend a Roman Catholic Church, I would attend a methodist or even a Church of England and
evangelical.

That's a little rough on the Catholics. I'm sure Jesus would love the Catholics as he loved us all.

I believe if someone believes something to be a sin and his conscience won't allow him to do it, he has
to examine his beliefs for himself. I do not believe in withholding life giving treatment like a blood
transfusion. Eating animal blood is not the same as human blood being fed into a vein.
So I can reason that the beliefs can be unhealthy in that a person with-holding a transfusion is actually
murdering someone in doing so. I believe God judges our motives and our hearts.

I'm sure Jesus would love the Jehovah witnesses too.

How about the Samaritans whose understanding of Judaism was questionable?

Luke 10:25-37

Abraham,had no rules. He simply believed what God said and this was accounted as righteousness to him.

Abraham did have rules. Here is the most important:

Deuteronomy 6:5

How could He have sacrificed His son if that were not true?

I have shared some of my beliefs now what are yours? :)

Now I have shared some of mine too.:rolleyes:

What Bahá’ís Believe | The Bahá’í Faith
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Weirdly enough, SGI has similar purposes. They grew in Japan, though, before they came over here to America. The only difference is they are evangelic and they do not have tenants incorporating other religious founders. (and as Buddhist, no god). But the politics and social aspects are stricken familiar.
Th current system is built not upon co-existence but on nationalism or racism, communism or a particular religious system.
There is a system. We can call it religion or organization; however, no religion can't be built without it.
We see two process in the world. One of disintegration where old ideas are being challenged and torn down and new ideas rolled out instead. One example is the status of women. This has come to the forefront of all governments and the idea that women are inferior or not equal in status to men is being challenged with the new ideas of equality.

This is an example of the old world being torn down and a new world emerging. It's not visible unless you look for it. Another example is racism. At one time black slaves and racial segregation was acceptable in America and South Africa but that was the old world. Now in the new world being built ideologically, racism is being outlawed everywhere even in sport.

In America, specifically on the East Coast from Virginia give or take into the southern states (to generalize the civil war times) racism is still present and we, myself as a minority, and other minorities can not only see it but feel it.

Here's a good video on how African Americans see ourselves and keeping ourselves minorities at the expense of others. If you are African American, you could probably relate. If not, then it may be hard to especially outside of the US. It's educational nonetheless.


Can you see the twin processes of disintegration of the old order or way we thought on the one hand and the new order coming through?

No. It's still old covered up. I don't know about other countries. United States differ depending on the state. People still discriminate and/or undercover LGBTQ+, women, african americans, non-white men, people with disabilities, class dynamics (homelesses for example), race, among others. I always wondered, "who are the white people?" But then again, even if white people don't realize it, if they haven't grown up in a detrimentally minority environment most their life, they won't "get it." Native Americans who have not signed treaties with America so they can keep their TLC is very stringent on who, on the outside, can come into the reservations as they view whites (regardless the status or role in the community) being harmful to their communities. I mean, as a minority, one Native American (forgot the tribe) looked at my family and was so happy to see a minority that she flipped.

So no, it's not changing from old to new. Maybe other countries but not here.

Multiculturalism is another phenomenon of the new order. Before we had the Australian white policy. Now its been replaced by multicultural aspirations. You see once again the turning against the old and adopting the new? These are the teachings of Baha'u'llah but people are not aware of it. Yet they themselves not being Baha'is are throwing out what disagrees with what Baha'u'llah taught and introducing His teachings themselves because they like them.

Bahai has good morals. It's fine to have these things. Millions of people do.

Bahaullah has nothing to do with that. If you don't understand that you are doing what other people are doing-say the Church-by placing someone(s) in a role of interpreting unity and love for others, I don't think you will no matter how many times minorities and religious founders you place into your belief tell you, you are wrong.

It's the people of the world who are taking from Baha'u'llah's teachings and building a new world not us. We are only about 8 million.

That's like saying "it's only SGI that's taking the teachings not the Christianity." The two have nothing to do with each other. One is from Japan the other Jerusalem and Rome.

We can't take from your teachings. That makes no sense whatsoever. How do you take love and unity from another religion. If there are so few of you, who exactly are taking your definition of love and unity? You placed yourself as the victim. You are not. Number of people doesn't make one the majority or minority in discrimination and cultural appropriation. It just means you're outnumbered.

Each culture can change the way they see women. They make the changes not us. Human Rights organisations pressure governments like Saudi Arabia to give women the vote and allow them to have a drivers license not us. Fifa promotes anti racism views at its venues not us. This is the world wanting to change towards Baha'u'llah's teachings. And the ones it doesn't want it won't change and we can live with that after all it's their world.

I live in America, so I only know from their perspective. We are Christian minded. Christianity has been around for awhile and their teachings of love and unity has been around long before Bahullah and bahai religion was born. What puzzles me is to use their founder in your new religion is a total insult to their faith. Regardless if a bahai is a christian, ex-christian, or whatever religion, if that person doesn't believe in christ and christ only, that isn't christianity.

The world wants to change Bahaullah's teachings?

America is trying to get away from Catholic teachings. We split from Britian and this is one of the reasons why we became protest-ants because of it. Historically, someone from Iran logically can't influence anything about Bahaullah's teachings other than to say you are wrong and to be christian. Anything else, just as you, yall will only see life through your own perspectives.

That is not peace and unity.

As I said we are building up,the Baha'i system but it's only for Baha'is. If the time ever comes when humanity prefers our system to theirs then they are welcome but otherwise it's 'live and let live'.
There's no conflict. We do exist side by side. We are not coming to fix you guys.

If the time ever comes when humanity prefers our system to theirs then they are welcome but otherwise it's 'live and let live'.​

My overall point exactly. It will not take time unless you are literally telling us only Bahaullah (and the various Bahai) can change our old into your new. We aren't waiting to be Bahai or see through Bahai eyes and you're just waiting.

So to recapitulate. We are not changing or fixing anyone. Your above posts says otherwise. It's the people themselves who have suddenly in this new age turned against racism, want human rights and want equality between men and women, Are you in America? If so, what part? Are you a minority? (not religious minority) Where you raised as a minority? If all these are true, how did they not influence your perspective of what you are saying?
They just happen to be basic Bahá'í principles but it's the people who are adapting them to their own cultures and including them in their own traditions. And they don't seem to feel any conflict. Only those who want to dominate the world don't agree with co existence but most of humanity are happy to live and let live. We don't make any changes. People who want to change do so.

That's a coincidence that some of our teachings and goals are ike yours but the TLC is not and because TLC defines our teachings and goals, we are not the same.

That is like a white christian telling a black christian they are alike because they share the same beliefs when, depending on where one is from, in my family, black-christianity (cough, wouldn't use the term but case in point) incorporates family practices, superstitions, and other like things. They are also heavy protestants. It's completely different than up north. I mean, I went to a white Southern Baptist Church thinking since it's the same denomination, it would be the same. It isn't. Being white isn't just a race or color of the skin. I mean, some white people call Hispanics black because they have dark skin but culturally black people would have a field day if they heard that.

You must understand other people's traditions, languages, and culture-their TLC both pun and literal-in order to achieve your goal with the agreement in scripture and religious practitioners to do so.

The concept of the unity of mankind are words spoken by Baha'u'llah yet we find in the Catholic document called the 'Pontifical Council for Inter religious dialogue' this intriguing statement. religions are adopting how they see it. And that's fine. That's great! The church acknowledges the oneness of mankind and the oneness of religion. We have so much in common. We can be different too but our common humanity is agreed upon universally yet it is not practiced everywhere yet which is why we don't not have peace.

Catholics say the same. SGI Buddhist say the same. All the evangalical religions I know seem to say the same thing. The people who don't are minority religion. Most feel spirituality is between that person and whom or whatever they revere or worship. They also know that each person's peace is different. They just don't want to be minorities.

What is the common humanity and who and what is it based on outside of our TLC?

28. The mystery of the unity of all mankind

First comes the fact that the whole of humankind forms one family, due to the common origin of all men and women, created by God in his own image. Correspondingly, all are called to a
common destiny, the fullness of life in God. Moreover, there is but one plan of salvation for humankind, with its centre in Jesus Christ, who in his incarnation "has united himself in a
certain manner to every person" (RH 13; cf. GS 22.2). Finally, there needs to be mentioned the active presence of the Holy Spirit in the religious life of the members of the other religious
traditions. From all this the Pope concludes to a "mystery of unity" which was manifested clearly at Assisi, "in spite of the differences between religious professions."(13)

Again, not all religions have god. This is not common humanity, this is god-religion humanity. Your faith incorporates what you say is Buddhism and Hinduism. Buddhism has no creator. Hinduism has many and define them different.

Unless you have no creator or you have multiple, you do not share common humanity with all religions (as your site says). Just a selective few.

First way to build "common reality" is to take out god.​

If you cannot, it isn't common reality. You can still fight for good just change your perspective so you won't overstep other people's religions and TLC.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
What I meant was the old systems based on racism, sexual inequality and oppression of human rights is being rejected by humanity and being replaced by equality between men and women, human rights for all and racial equality.

You're optimistic but in my other post I explained how that isn't true. Probably not in my life time. There will always be a culture, race, and class clash. I just don't know how other countries handle it. US, on the other hand, are pretty behind.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Interwesting (nope. Not a type :) )
Maybe you don't call yourself Christian but the teachings of Christ and the Church appear to be an enormous part of who you are.:)

I believe to be christian you have to be like-minded in the body of christ. You have to still continue to take the sacraments of christ. You have to be and act as one body. My knowledge and experience (which, yes, it is an enormous part of me and part of who I am) is what it is. However, I have a choice to live that experience or live another. I choose to live another experience because I believe it 100 percent, it shapes how I see family, and it helps me understand who I am based on my bloodline not by scripture and people I do not know.

Probably you're christian side is trying to make me christian? :p I get that all the time. Funny but not funny at the same time.

Thank you for explaining that to me Carlita. The only aspect that perplexes me is by what authority a priest can speak for God. Did God give him that authority? Of course we all need to pray to God for forgiveness and only God can forgive according to Baha'is.

The most commonly quoted scripture is when god said we should pray for others. In confession, that is what the priest is doing. He is praying for others and at the same time giving that Catholic reassurance that god forgives them. Being human and saying words doesn't ex nay that god saves.

Also, without confession or repentance to god, one isn't back with the body of christ. I know there are many scriptures that talk about "breaking up the body" etc. It's more about forgivessness not only from god but also asking forgiveness to the body/people of christ and to Catholics the authority of that body or elder are the priests. So it's a double forgiveness.

I've never heard a priest said they forgave the confessee. I've met many many priests and that is, well, they'd probably look at me funny (oh, another protestant again. :rolleyes: misinterpreting our faith). Naw. I see past all that. Got to experience it-really experience it-to know. Catholics can't be Bahai. Catholics can't even take communion in a non-catholic church, so...

Ha ha. Perhaps I'm a Christian by belief and not confirmed! I never experienced confirmation as a Christian. However I went through a full emersion baptism after telling a congregation of over 300 why I wanted to give my life to the Lord. Suppose that was a confirmation of sorts.:)

Aaah! You know, I thought you was a Catholic. Who would have thunk. On that new note, you'd have to experience it. Once you experience it and you are not like me who love their ex but can still say she is my ex, I don't think you would go back to Bahai, really. Not because of the "physical" (If you want to separate it) but just going through the whole acts of conversion is awesome. If Christ existed and it made sense logically rather looking out my window scratching my head how, and he said "I never knew you." I'd have to suck it up. It's not about rules. Catholicism isn't about rules. They follow rules (if one likes) or sacraments and devotion because these TLC shape their relationship with Christ.

I don't know about other denominations this closely. Every time I try to relate to family who talk about their non-catholic experience, for me, it goes back to catholic.

That's good then. Baha'is are forbidden to proselytize.

Never knew that ;) well, of course. Weirdly enough, Catholics aren't either. They feel it's charity to promote their beliefs and change others to be like them and spreading the word. Whether they understand it as proselytize, I don't know. I don't think so.

The principle of detachment comes to mind, also an essential theme in the Baha'i writings. There are probably parallels with Buddhism with avoiding attachment as a path to overcoming suffering.

Can you disattach yourself from god to achieve non-attachment?

Interesting. You are rekindling my interest in Buddhism.

What do you make of this?

Haha. I'm more Buddhist than Catholic. If I went off the closest my beliefs are between the two, it would be Buddhist. If I went off of experience only, it would be Catholic.

I've been pagan most my life. Art, nature, and all the new agish stuff to me, if I had TLC that shaped it, I'd be in love. I don't have much of the TLC part and I know a lot about Buddhism so that's why. My pagan part is not a religion. It's basic life shaped by living with the earth cycles and so forth. Not Pagan, though, since my family doesn't come from European traditions.

Where did Christ say He was the last prophet? Did He not speak of His Return? Perhaps His Return is like John the Baptist being the return of Elijah.

You mean to tell me that someone else other than christ will return after him? What is judgement day for if christ's return isn't meant to take people back to his father?

Bahaullah isn't the last prophet of christ. I honestly don't know how they even go together.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
You never can tell.:D

These temples are the Baha'is gift to humanity. Anyone can enter and attend the devotional meetings. What will be heard are the sacred writings of main religions without anything added. No preaching or talks during the devotional meetings.:)

It gets a lot of tourists too I'm sure. But it's also a large proclamation that 'I'm here' much like how the Catholic Church in South India likes to erect huge crosses on every building they can.
 
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loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
You're optimistic but in my other post I explained how that isn't true. Probably not in my life time. There will always be a culture, race, and class clash. I just don't know how other countries handle it. US, on the other hand, are pretty behind.

There are many examples of different parts working as a whole using the principle of coexistence and interdependence without losing identity.

Multiculturalism is one of them. And it basically works fairly well.

Take the human body also. Although the different parts have their specific function, to separate any of the organs from the body would most likely lead to death.

Disunity in the body of humanity is no different. All the organs of humanity are required for it to function healthily. As the organs are not united, we see the world in an unhealthy condition.

Without all the organs of the human body supporting each other the body cannot exist. So too with the body of humanity. Is it really a happy, healthy and peaceful humanity we have or a disturbed, eratic and unbalanced body?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
There are many examples of different parts working as a whole using the principle of coexistence and interdependence without losing identity.

Multiculturalism is one of them. And it basically works fairly well.

Take the human body also. Although the different parts have their specific function, to separate any of the organs from the body would most likely lead to death.

Disunity in the body of humanity is no different. All the organs of humanity are required for it to function healthily. As the organs are not united, we see the world in an unhealthy condition.

Without all the organs of the human body supporting each other the body cannot exist. So too with the body of humanity. Is it really a happy, healthy and peaceful humanity we have or a disturbed, eratic and unbalanced body?


There would only be unity if it were not based on bahaullahs teachings.
 
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