Am I looking for Religion or Spirituality?

littlefire · Mar 26, 2017

David T said:
You already have a home it's out in the landscape. Read muir, he was raised in an extremely harsh religious household it never stopped him. The landscape is the church of all religions and denominations, are you seeking a box? Sometimes, one has to teach, not sit in the pew. I go to visit box church occasionally but it's a poor substitute for that direct teaching the trees give on a sunny glorious day!! Channeling my inner Muir badly. Be a sheep dog, and keep an eye on the flock, especially the Shepards they are generally a tiny bit confused. But if you want to be a sheep in the flock well you will have to abandon the landscape. If you want to be a fish then you will have to abandon the shores as a fisherman, and go hang out with the fish pretending to be fishermen! Don't abandon mother nature, for a box, destroy the box, and being the flock to mother nature!! St Francis of Assisi already said it always preach the gospel and at last resort use words! He preached evolution everything is interconnected he correctly called it "family of god". Be ok with wierd. Peace.

I think I missed your message before, but I just wanted to thank you for posting. I think it's my analytical side that enjoys boxes for support, or maybe it's my insecurities. But I am very glad you've found something that works for you. I want to connect more with the natural world, but I'd also love a community to do that with. Maybe that's not something that I'm meant to have right now, and that's ok, but I do miss it.

littlefire · Mar 26, 2017

Goddess_Ashtara said:
"And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD."

Leviticus 10:1-2

The Old Testament is absolutely awesome

Bless you @Goddess_Ashtara

littlefire · Mar 26, 2017

Midget01 said:
I hope you are still seeing a counselor. Because God is not doing this too you. God gives you free will but He doesn't control you. God didn't create puppets. People can get off in wrong tangents when they read and interpret scripture on their own. Bibles studies are good way to group not because there might be an expert in the group but God talks through 2 or 3 people and He can help guide the group. I for one don't see a need

Thank you for your post and your concern. I am still seeing a counselor and she is helping me very much, but she is not a religious expert (which I am 100% ok with). Alas, it is hard for me to view the Christian God as anything but controlling. I had been involved with many Bible studies in the past and actually led Bible studies for people my age for a few years, but none of that knowledge or resulting practice could get me past the fear that came from devoting myself to a God who resembled (to me) an abusive boyfriend more than a loving father.

Midget01 said:
First of all I see no reason to see Religion and Spirituality as a separate practice. One leads and guides the other. Perhaps instead of memorizing and trying to act like you are in control why not pray and put the readings you have covered into practice during the week. While doing this seek out the God you are looking for. Spirituality is not about just making us feel good and High on a mountain. It can happen from time to time but that is not the reason for looking inward and trying to locate t he God connection. If you are trying to connect with another Spirit that would be opposed to what the bible is addressing and in those circumstances you will go crazy trying to find that type of Spirit. I suggest you begin by asking yourself just what is it you are seeking ? God or your own inner joy? When you are honest and truly begin to start the journey start by reading books that can lead you to a deeper understanding of yourself and God. God doesn't expect all of us to be scholars but He does expect us to follow His laws and to love Him and Our Neighbor. Read the Fathers of the Church, Read the Didache and see how the Early members sought God in their lives. Church didn't start in 1970, nor did it begin with a Human Being It began with God and was redeemed by Christ who died for you. It is kept alive through the Holy Spirit who keeps it going today. We are in the time of Lent right now. It is a time of reflection and rebuilding. So it is an appropriate time to start a new. Pick up your pieces like a broken pot and let God renew and rebuild. The Poem : "The Potter's Kiss" is a wonderful poem to help you gather you thoughts in a better direction. When you are ready find a place of quiet light a candle if that helps to center you. Ask God to guide you on your new journey. Sit silently listening for anything that God might send .Sometimes just being silently will help others times continue praying or read a few pages of a book or perhaps read that poem and see how the Potter reaches out to you. DOn't focus on time or what is or is not happening. Just let it be. If you do t his on a regular basis at a regular time that works for you. I suggest yo don't try this when you know you have to leave in 10 minutes etc. Don't rush- d doesn't operate in time. We do. If you find time is hard and so is being still just practice praying and being still at the same time everyday after while you will begin to miss this private time with Christ.If it helps you to center put a statue or a picture of Him in your space and this will help you focus more.

I can't understand what your purpose of memorizing is if you don't learn to put them into practice like St. James talks about. Perhaps read that book. I will pray for you. God works in and through us if you trust and allow Him to do so. Midget01

I will admit to being somewhat of a control freak, however, relinquishing control has led me be manipulated and run over by people acting in the name of the Christian God too many times for me to count. In the past, when people have accused me of "trying to take control," it's because they wanted that control for themselves.

I have not merely memorized Scriptures but have tried to act them out in every area of my life. The intent of my memorization was to learn to serve Christ better. But the book of James is still branded into my psyche, taunting me, letting me know that my faith is dead because my works aren't up to par with God's perfect expectations. I honestly have not been able to find any freedom within Christian religious traditions, and honestly just need space from them for a very long time, possibly for the rest of my life.

I'm sorry if this sounds like it's coming out of left field or is too scathing or emotional or defensive; I don't want to upset anyone who's taken the time to respond to me so courteously. I've had a difficult day having to defend myself to a lot of people and I am tiring quickly.

I honestly don't know where I'm going with all this. And I apologize, but I feel like I needed to get this out of me. I'm sorry @Midget01 that you're the one who got the brunt of this rant.

littlefire · Mar 26, 2017

@Midget01 I also want to recognize and respect that the faith you have found is beautiful and I am excited that God has called you along that path. I just believe that our paths are different.

littlefire · Mar 26, 2017

A Maatian De'ani said:
Littlefire, You might look up the Tumblr blogs under De'anism or Deanism. Many of the newer members of the De'anic community have blogs there. I know that at least one blogger describes herself as being "non-binary." a word to be honest I had never heard of unto I read "their" post. I have since read up on it and now understand that "non-binary" is the self identity of those who do not see themselves as being either male or female in the traditional sense. Please note that I am a 66 year old man who only recently have been thinking about these things. Anyway I suspect that you would like many of these young mostly female bloggers.

The issue of the gender of Dea? Deanism is a religion which views Dea primarily as God the Mother but most De'ani also are Filianic and believe that God is Daughter as well. Since Deani are very much into iconography, yes, the icons that they use and share on line are images based on the human woman's form. However the De'anic scriptures constantly refer to Dea as spirit and the religion does not view Dea as having a material biological nature in the same way as does a human biological woman. Some say that Dea is to be viewed as feminine as having the qualities that are traditionally viewed as feminine as opposed to being female. There are other perspectives as well.

The main point for me is that Deani as a community and individually view Dea as feminine / female and some believe that the male exists within Dea as well. De'ani believe that Dea is God. As God she is all that God is to Christians or Allah is to Muslims without what we would view as the negative baggage of those religions. Being God she is simply beyond our human conception. As a result we can not simply apply our small biologically based conceptions to her. I would suggest that you might want to read her scriptures, read the blogs of believers, but also struggle to think about her in your own way. That of course is if you want to explore De'anism further

Note. De'anism very clearly does have an ethic of right and wrong. The wrong within De'anism that which divides humanity from Dea is viewed as "kear."

Glenn

Thank you so much for this information. It's helped clear up a lot of things and is orienting me on the correct direction to learning more. I'm actually really excited and encouraged that you and others of generations older than mine are learning about nonbinary identities.

David T · Mar 26, 2017

littlefire said:
I think I missed your message before, but I just wanted to thank you for posting. I think it's my analytical side that enjoys boxes for support, or maybe it's my insecurities. But I am very glad you've found something that works for you. I want to connect more with the natural world, but I'd also love a community to do that with. Maybe that's not something that I'm meant to have right now, and that's ok, but I do miss it.

We always have both. Step into a community but don't forget about nature, and just your awareness of that changes people in tiny small ways.

SomeRandom · Mar 26, 2017

Goddess_Ashtara said:
"And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD."

Leviticus 10:1-2

The Old Testament is absolutely awesome

Yes well the OT God is certainly one prone to outbursts of extreme anger and fury. A bit of a hot head, if you will.

New Age Spiritual Leader · Mar 27, 2017

sealchan said:
I think that you may do well to stay away from whatever is triggering you. There are many books and of course this forum allows you to participate and socialize to a degree entirely on your terms.

One other path which is custom tailored to the individual is to keep a dream journal. As strange as dreams are to most people you will find that taken at face value they represent a personal spiritual epic of sorts. They reflect your perspective and yet offer a sometimes challenging alternative perspective on your psyche.
Of course you may find that some of your triggers will occur here in the form of dream content. But this also gives you an opportunity to reflect on them mainly on your own terms.

Also, have you considered therapy? Any time someone has been trapped in a restrictive environment for a long time, it may benefit them to explore that with a professional who can help you find the triggers and learn how to manage them.

Remember - dreams have three major components - the past, the present and the future.

Although they are not truly recognizable in the format we view them, but can be deciphered if paying attention and, like it was stated, keeping a dream journal. The hard part is waking up and jotting down what you actually remember.

Eventually, if notes are kept meticulously, you can actually see patterns form of possible things to come.

)

sealchan · Mar 27, 2017

littlefire said:
Yup I avoid most churches and evangelicals as much as possible so I don't have meltdown panic attacks. My mental health journey has been long and strange and for the last two years has involved weekly therapy. I've never really kept track of my dreams before. A lot of triggering things does come up in them though. Usually my worst fears come true in them or I feel really depressed in my dreams and wake up depressed.....it kinda sucks actually. If that's my spiritual epic, that's a bit dismal haha.

Sorry to hear that...but you must be true to your experience.

Here are some alternative thoughts that maybe might be helpful...I don't have a church but I do have a spiritual practice..I have built up my own kind of sacred space around those works of literary and musical art that deeply speak to me. My teachers are musicians and writers from many ages and they are always avail to me when I need them.

At one point, I used to write down the first song that came to my mind each morning when I woke up. This seemed to reflect something of my unconscious and oftentimes balanced me in a way that I would not have consciously chosen. If you then later listen to your morning songs or make compilations of those songs and play them back then you are singing back to yourself the song of your soul. It can be blues or it can be ragtime...no matter. Sometimes singing the blues is the only way to integrate your suffering into your life.

I also have a list of all of my favorite books and movies. I make sure that I revisit them in my regular reading and movie watching efforts. Giving yourself what you love is an important part of nurturing your self and your soul. As Dale Cooper of Twin Peaks once said,

Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it. Don't wait for it. Just let it happen.

Then, perhaps, the deprivation and the suffering will gradually be relativized and become less powerful of an influence on your psyche.

Make sure you learn how to make of yourself a solemn ritual, your body your temple duty. Take care of yourself!

Christ's Prophet · Mar 28, 2017

littlefire said:
Hello RF buddies,

I'm in a weird spiritual time right now and could use some input. I was raised Southern Baptist (in a sort of extreme and isolated way), but years of religious and emotional abuse, in addition to me going to a secular college and realizing that some of my beliefs were hurtful towards others, has caused me to shed Christianity. It's weird for me being in this place because pre-college, Christianity and biblical literalism were my life. I've memorized over 3000 Scriptures and took everything so seriously, but I was so depressed and so scared, and the negative effect it was having on my mental health forced me to show it the door about 9 months ago. (I still struggle with depression, but at least I don't regularly feel like God is going to strike me with lightning when I least expect it).

I still consider myself a deeply spiritual person, and still have times when I feel connected to the sky, the land, the water, other people.... the little "mantra" keeping me going right now is "the divine in me sees the divine in you." This statement is incredibly meaningful to me and essentially sums up my beliefs right now: universalism, connection with nature (and energies and past inhabitants of the land), some type of spirit in all things (not really pantheism)...and love, understanding, and fullness as the point of existence.

Where I'm struggling right now is that after spending my entire life connected to a (very niche) religious system, I don't have a religious home. I deeply appreciate the wisdom in virtually every religion I've encountered. I went to a Quaker meeting for a while, but something about it wasn't working for me...I think it was that the expectation of physically hearing from God during the course of an hour in silence seemed a little overambitious....

The problems are that I want to stay open to new beliefs and new information (my life has changed so much in the past few years that any expectation of consistency seems ludicrous) and don't want to feel tied down to a dogma or set of regulations that I have to stress over again (I'd actually consider religious regulations triggering for me....I've been reading Pirke Avot just to learn more about Judaism and the Talmud but have had to stop and take breathers so many times because I'll find myself shaking with anxiety in the middle of it). But having a religious community is something that I really, really miss. I think my ideal community would be some type of interfaith group where people came together just to connect with each other, with the divine, with nature through environmental justice, and with their communities through social justice and activism...but if anything's overambitious, it's that.

Cursory introductions I've received to Druidry and to De'anism and other forms of Goddess spirituality have been extremely healing for me (I'm reading "Dancing with Nemetona" and it's soooo beautiful), but I'm scared that I'm understanding them incorrectly and that I'd be better off avoiding the spiritual altogether to avoid angering any people or Gods. But that's the anxiety talking.

All that to say, I am really not sure where to go from here. I really want to look more into Druidry and Goddess spirituality but I'm scared of running into another set of dogmatic expectations and am just as scared of the consequences of making my spirituality my own in a "build a spirituality" type way because of my fear of doing things wrong and bringing some type of physical or spiritual damnation to myself and/or others. There's also the fact that I could NEVER consider a religion I espouse the end-all-be-all or "more right" than someone else's, because we're all just trying our best to cope with reality and be our best each day.

So, should I be looking for a new religion or a personal spirituality, or both? If anyone involved in Druidry/De'anism/Filianism/Goddess-based religions and spiritualities has any insight, that would be particularly beneficial. Maybe what I need is just reassurance.

Thanks for reading this crazy backstory of nonsense. I really appreciate y'all's time and wisdom. I see the divine in all of you <3

-littlefire

I don’t think anyone should be looking for Religion or Spirituality or something to excite feelings. I recommend that you look for God. There are so many people wanting the things of God, but they don’t want God, when all the time, God wants people to seek Him personally.
Matthew 6:33 (KJV)
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
If you seek God first, then all the other peripheral stuff come with that. You should not seek God just to get some sort of religious experience or some sort of mind altering feeling, but we must seek the person of God and get to know who He is and where you fit into His plan for your life. Certainty for eternity.

Deeje · Mar 28, 2017

I am a great believer in the search for truth being very much 'God searching for us', rather than the other way around.

Having been raised in Christendom, I did not find the God of Jesus Christ there, nor did I see any obedience to his teachings (unless they were convenient,) but rather I saw a need to turn Jesus Christ into God and a need to justify doing what he did not teach. There is a long list. I knew that God hated hypocrites....but that was all I saw.

Those things to me, demeans the Father and insults his obedient and subservient son. If one is going to claim to be a Christian, one should follow ALL that he taught, not just the convenient things. The truth, Jesus said is like hidden treasure (Matthew 13:44) so unless we have a good shovel and plenty of determination to keep digging, our search will be fruitless and frustrating.

I was directed to a Christian faith (or should I say that when I was searching for God...he found me) and I discovered a vast difference between what is taught by the churches and what is taught in the Bible.

What Does the Bible Really Teach? | Bible Teach
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/bible-teach/
We all need to evaluate the position we take and be prepared to search for even an inconvenient truth, in an unpopular place, rather than searching for something that just suits what WE are looking for. It isn't really about us, or what we want. There is a much bigger picture.

Hockeycowboy · Mar 28, 2017

littlefire said:
Hello RF buddies,

I'm in a weird spiritual time right now and could use some input. I was raised Southern Baptist (in a sort of extreme and isolated way), but years of religious and emotional abuse, in addition to me going to a secular college and realizing that some of my beliefs were hurtful towards others, has caused me to shed Christianity. It's weird for me being in this place because pre-college, Christianity and biblical literalism were my life. I've memorized over 3000 Scriptures and took everything so seriously, but I was so depressed and so scared, and the negative effect it was having on my mental health forced me to show it the door about 9 months ago. (I still struggle with depression, but at least I don't regularly feel like God is going to strike me with lightning when I least expect it).

I still consider myself a deeply spiritual person, and still have times when I feel connected to the sky, the land, the water, other people.... the little "mantra" keeping me going right now is "the divine in me sees the divine in you." This statement is incredibly meaningful to me and essentially sums up my beliefs right now: universalism, connection with nature (and energies and past inhabitants of the land), some type of spirit in all things (not really pantheism)...and love, understanding, and fullness as the point of existence.

Where I'm struggling right now is that after spending my entire life connected to a (very niche) religious system, I don't have a religious home. I deeply appreciate the wisdom in virtually every religion I've encountered. I went to a Quaker meeting for a while, but something about it wasn't working for me...I think it was that the expectation of physically hearing from God during the course of an hour in silence seemed a little overambitious....

The problems are that I want to stay open to new beliefs and new information (my life has changed so much in the past few years that any expectation of consistency seems ludicrous) and don't want to feel tied down to a dogma or set of regulations that I have to stress over again (I'd actually consider religious regulations triggering for me....I've been reading Pirke Avot just to learn more about Judaism and the Talmud but have had to stop and take breathers so many times because I'll find myself shaking with anxiety in the middle of it). But having a religious community is something that I really, really miss. I think my ideal community would be some type of interfaith group where people came together just to connect with each other, with the divine, with nature through environmental justice, and with their communities through social justice and activism...but if anything's overambitious, it's that.

Cursory introductions I've received to Druidry and to De'anism and other forms of Goddess spirituality have been extremely healing for me (I'm reading "Dancing with Nemetona" and it's soooo beautiful), but I'm scared that I'm understanding them incorrectly and that I'd be better off avoiding the spiritual altogether to avoid angering any people or Gods. But that's the anxiety talking.

All that to say, I am really not sure where to go from here. I really want to look more into Druidry and Goddess spirituality but I'm scared of running into another set of dogmatic expectations and am just as scared of the consequences of making my spirituality my own in a "build a spirituality" type way because of my fear of doing things wrong and bringing some type of physical or spiritual damnation to myself and/or others. There's also the fact that I could NEVER consider a religion I espouse the end-all-be-all or "more right" than someone else's, because we're all just trying our best to cope with reality and be our best each day.

So, should I be looking for a new religion or a personal spirituality, or both? If anyone involved in Druidry/De'anism/Filianism/Goddess-based religions and spiritualities has any insight, that would be particularly beneficial. Maybe what I need is just reassurance.

Thanks for reading this crazy backstory of nonsense. I really appreciate y'all's time and wisdom. I see the divine in all of you <3

-littlefire

If I may suggest something: just contemplatively read the Bible....it can really "comfort" us in ways we might not expect! -- Romans 15:4. (As humans, we have an innate need for spiritual peace and direction. God's Word can provide that.)

Take care, my cousin.

Hockeycowboy · Mar 28, 2017

Vancouversailor said:
do good for the sake of it...........because it is the right thing to do.

This is actually part of being God-like.

Ben Dhyan · Mar 28, 2017

Hockeycowboy said:
This is actually part of being God-like.

I thought of God so often,
I finally became God.
Little by little God drew nearer,
Slowly but slowly I passed away...

shunyadragon · Apr 7, 2017

Any attempt separate, categorize or differentiate religion and spirituality is creating an artificial distinction to justify what one believes, or does not believe.

Religion is what one believes concerning the spiritual nature of our existence, whether organized, disorganized, unorganized as a group or an individual.

Am I looking for Religion or Spirituality?

littlefire

You can call me Fio

littlefire

You can call me Fio

littlefire

You can call me Fio

littlefire

You can call me Fio

littlefire

You can call me Fio

David T

Well-Known Member

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise

New Age Spiritual Leader

Member

sealchan

Well-Known Member

Christ's Prophet

Member

Deeje

Avid Bible Student

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member

shunyadragon

shunyadragon