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Why will our lives be better if there was no Religion.

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URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
It Aint Necessarily So said:
Christian scripture is no more meaningful or authoritative to me than Islamic scripture is for either of us.. You needn't cite it as evidence of anything more than that somebody wrote it and it wound up in the Bible.
The Bible did not foretell what would be happening now. Biblical prophecy is mostly vague and nonspecific. It has never prepared us for any event. Telling us that there would be wars and earthquakes isn't any more prophetic than telling us that it will be dark tonight and that somewhere, someone will be born and someone will die before the sun reappears..
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Please note the magnitude of earthquakes that would be occurring now > It says ' great ' earthquakes <- Luke 21:11
Earthquakes coupled with a composite sign of many other things happening at the same time couple with the international global proclaiming about the good news of God's kingdom on a world-wide scale as being done today.
How do one know Bible prophecy is vague if one has never studied the Bible.
What is vague about the people's behavior according to 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13
What is non-specific about 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 when ' they ' (powers that be) will be saying, " Peace and Security " as a precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
It Aint Necessarily So said:
It Aint Necessarily So said: Have you considered life without worship? Why worship?
So no, then, right? You haven't considered life without worship.
To have priorities counts as worship to you. Not to me.
More scripture? Let me share some with you from an alleged holy book that you hold in as high regard as I do yours and there's:
"Wherein they will hear no unsuitable speech. Within it is a flowing spring. Within it are couches raised high" - Qu'ran Al-Ghashiyah 88:11
Take a moment and imbibe the infinite wisdom there. Couches will be raised high. Think about the implications.
Love seats, too. Love seats will be raised on high by the angels as they weep.
But there is more. Chaises will be lifted, davenports will ascend, and settees will float.
And behold, for it is written: divans will sprout wings to take to the air even as chesterfields follow them and head for the heavens.
Did that help you to understand life and make useful decisions?
Me, neither.
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Jesus did NOT teach the Qu'ran. Jesus taught that he will be king (president) of God's kingdom government for a thousand years. Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.
The executional words from Jesus' mouth will rid the Earth of the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
It Aint Necessarily So said:
You've lost me again. You will every time you cite scripture as if it should be meaningful to me.
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The Bible does Not have to be meaningful to you.
I am merely posting what the Bible really teaches.
'Christendom ' ( so-called Christian but mostly in name only ) teaches customs or traditions outside of Scripture but taught them as being Scripture. That does Not make the Bible as wrong, but makes wrong teachings as wrong.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
It Aint Necessarily So said:
Thanks.
Don't forget the couches raised high. They have to figure into this somehow.
If all you intend to do is to preach to me, let's end this.
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Preach, or just giving reference verses to back up what I say.
Didn't you post references to back up what you are saying.
I do agree that religion today is a source of trouble.
That does Not make the teachings of Jesus as wrong, but makes troublesome religion as wrong.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Christ's Prophet said:
That is a silly question. In your country, America, the whole of the constitution is built on the moral principles of the Bible. The Ten Commandments are reflected in your law. Your founding fathers built your nation on the Bible. It is those moral principles that made your country great. On one of your coins does it not say ‘In God We Trust’? In my country, the original Law was constituted by the Bible. Granted, in this day and age, the principles of the Bible, as it is reflected in the law, are being degraded by imperfect pagan humanistic thinking, thus threatening the very fabric of society. Certainty for eternity.
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I'll call it 'Non-Jesus' thinking' threatening the fabric of society, but certainly Not forever nor for eternity.
Not for eternity because according to Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16 the executional words from Jesus' mouth will rid the earth of the wicked and they will No longer be - Psalms 37:10-11; Psalms 92:7; Proverbs 2:21-22
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Shadow Wolf said:
It is. Much like even how Christianity and Islam are varied. But, as a whole, today and historically religion has proven itself to a be a volatile catalyst of violence, oppression, slavery, and much blood shed in many forms.
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Christianity or 'Christendom' ( so-called Christian but mostly in name only )
To me, Jesus taught to be neutral in the affairs of the world. Whereas Christendom is involved in wars.
The clergy of Christendom have even used the pulpit as a recruiting station so parents will sacrifice their young on the Altar of War as if is the same as the Altar of God.

Jesus blamed corrupted religion for all the blood shed going all the way back to Abel at Matthew 23:35
So, it is the history, or historically, that 'false religion' has proven to be sanguinary, blood thirsty - James 4:1-4
Whereas, the teachings of Christ show that Jesus and his 1st-century followers were neutral in the world's affairs.
They did Not even get involved in the issues of the day between the Jews and the Romans but remained neutral.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Skwim said:
I have to agree. Many people lack the coping skills to get them through life comfortably, so do need their faith to serve as a crutch. In this respect, and only in this respect, I think religion is a good thing.
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As Jeremiah wrote that it is Not in man himself to direct his step - Jeremiah 10:23
So, to me according to that, then man needs someone to step in.
God steps in, in that the Bible is God's life line ( coping skills ) to get us through - Psalms 37:23-24
That is why Psalms 119:105 mentions the Bible as a lamp ( flashlight ) to our feet. To light our immediate steps so we do Not stumble.
The Bible as a light (high beams) to our roadway. Our life ahead of us so that we can see clearly even in the dark.
When men have gone against and twisted Scripture history shows that man can't direct his step.
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
URAVIP2ME said:
As Jeremiah wrote that it is Not in man himself to direct his step - Jeremiah 10:23
So, to me according to that, then man needs someone to step in.
God steps in, in that the Bible is God's life line ( coping skills ) to get us through - Psalms 37:23-24
That is why Psalms 119:105 mentions the Bible as a lamp ( flashlight ) to our feet. To light our immediate steps so we do Not stumble.
The Bible as a light (high beams) to our roadway. Our life ahead of us so that we can see clearly even in the dark.
When men have gone against and twisted Scripture history shows that man can't direct his step.
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Sorry, but I haven't the slightest idea what "direct his step" means.

.
 
R

red44243

New Member
bobhikes said:
On the RF you constantly see the religious count down. More and more people leaving religion. Religion isn't necessary. Religion causes problems for everyone.

What I need to know is why is a world without religion going to be better.

Will Russia the US and China suddenly get along.
Will Pakistan and Israel suddenly become friends
Will North Korea become a paradise.
Will the US no longer have Women, Immigrant, Black, Gay rights problems.

Please give me you best thoughts for why a world without religion is going to be better. I am extremely curious.

I'll give you 2 problems
The RF will no longer exist.
You won't be able to use religion as your fall back for why everything is bad.
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I believe all religions do more to damage man's relationship with God than they do to strengthen it. They are all in the business of "packaging God" with their own "trade mark" and selling God under their own "brand" to as many followers they can convince to pay their price. In doing so each religion "twist and shape" God in their own way trying to make their package more marketable than their competitors. They are more interested in their customers devout loyalty to their religion than anything having to do with God.
When people go to church three times a week and pay at least their 10%, they get lazy. They have no need to read religious texts and learn God for themselves when the preacher teaches them all about God for at least 6 hours every week. He puts on such a good show pushing his commercially packaged and branded concept of God that he must be right. He is so enlightened that the whole congregation "glows" in his presence!! Even if a member studies the Bible on his own and it just doesn't seem to say the same thing taught by their preacher well they must be reading it wrong because preacher can't be wrong. They end up having more faith in the Church than in God!!
I believe any attempt to make God fit into a preconceived marketing scheme and place an Earthly commercial trade mark or brand on him and the concept of "The Mark of the Beast" may have something to do with one another.
Anyways in a nutshell, the world would be a better place without religion because it would no longer be a place where so many different versions of God are packaged and sold at retail...lol. More people would keep seeking a loving relationship with the true God instead of settling for a relationship with the congregation and thinking it's the same thing. Instead of being confused by deciding which one of the many differently packaged and branded Gods to buy more people would discover the true and loving God already living in their heart and by learning his true nature and upon realizing that God has no need of money and much unlike the church God is not greedy and instead of learning to imitate the church's greed they learned to imitate God's love much evil would be wiped of the face of this earth.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
URAVIP2ME said:
Whereas, the teachings of Christ show that Jesus and his 1st-century followers were neutral in the world's affairs.
They did Not even get involved in the issues of the day between the Jews and the Romans but remained neutral.
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While that is true of Christianity, there is still the issue that the Old Testament and the writings of Paul have more than plenty of material to justify the cruelties of the Church/Christendom. But as with religion as a whole, this isn't restricted to Christianity or Islam. Even in the South and Central America with peoples such as the Aztecs, or in the East with the pseudo-religious Bushido of Japan. The only thing that comes close, and also shares heavy overlap in many cases, is the death and destruction from the state.
 
D

Diak (Jack) Anosh

Member
Premium Member
It Aint Necessarily So said:
Have you considered life without worship? Why worship?
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One of the words in scripture (proskunew) that is translated "Worship" with reference to Jehovah, is also used with reference to a brother towards a brother - When Jacob "bowed" to Esau; A wife to her husband - David's wife bowed to David; Subjects to their king; Employees to their masters; homage to a governor; all bow in respect to a higher level of societal standard.
 
It Aint Necessarily So

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Diak (Jack) Anosh said:
One of the words in scripture (proskunew) that is translated "Worship" with reference to Jehovah, is also used with reference to a brother towards a brother - When Jacob "bowed" to Esau; A wife to her husband - David's wife bowed to David; Subjects to their king; Employees to their masters; homage to a governor; all bow in respect to a higher level of societal standard.
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Not according to Proskuneo - New Testament Greek Lexicon - King James Version

Transliterated Word
Proskuneo

Definition
  1. to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
  2. among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
  3. in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
    1. used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank
      1. to the Jewish high priests
      2. to God
      3. to Christ
      4. to heavenly beings
      5. to demons

I see words like reverence, homage, obeisance, and superior there. I don't think or behave like that.

There's not much doubt what the Bible commands man to do here - view and treat God in a way which makes the self disappear in self-abnegation and relative insignificance: "You are great, and I am nothing".

Those are outdated ideas. I don't respect the desire to be treated that way, nor the person willing to do it. Today, we are citizens. We are autonomous agents living in an egalitarian society that rejects the idea of superior classes of people that need to be bowed down to.


Isn't a simple thank you enough?
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Shadow Wolf said:
While that is true of Christianity, there is still the issue that the Old Testament and the writings of Paul have more than plenty of material to justify the cruelties of the Church/Christendom. But as with religion as a whole, this isn't restricted to Christianity or Islam. Even in the South and Central America with peoples such as the Aztecs, or in the East with the pseudo-religious Bushido of Japan. The only thing that comes close, and also shares heavy overlap in many cases, is the death and destruction from the state.
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The Constitution of the Old Testament Hebrew Scriptures were only for one nation, the nation of ancient Israel.
Israel was never in the 'slave-trade business' as to what happened in this country.
Biblical slavery for up to 6 years was to pay off debts. There were No debtor's prisons in ancient Israel.
Ancient Israel sometimes went to war, etc. against God's orders.
So, to me, it was disobedience to God which caused some wars,etc.
God's ordered wars were for the sake of justice, an execution for justice' sake for the righteous.
Whereas, the cruelties of church/Christendom were usually political in nature, Not God-like.
Christendom often equates love of political nation as being the same as love of God.
Sacrificing on the Altar of War as if that is the same as the Altar of God.
Which writings of Paul do you have in mind to justify cruelties.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
URAVIP2ME said:
Israel was never in the 'slave-trade business' as to what happened in this country.
Biblical slavery for up to 6 years was to pay off debts. There were No debtor's prisons in ancient Israel.
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Slavery apologetics is disgusting. They were still owned as property, could be beaten, and women were not released.
URAVIP2ME said:
God's ordered wars were for the sake of justice, an execution for justice' sake for the righteous.
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And he ordered the unborn be ripped from the womb, every man and child slain, every woman who has known a man slain, while the virgins were to kept as sex slaves/war plunder. Not even the cattle and crop were safe.
URAVIP2ME said:
Whereas, the cruelties of church/Christendom were usually political in nature, Not God-like.
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Witch executions are very much based in superstition and not often as a political reason.
URAVIP2ME said:
Which writings of Paul do you have in mind to justify cruelties.
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Affirming slavery, repression of women, and condemning homosexuals are a good start.
 
It Aint Necessarily So

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
URAVIP2ME said:
The Constitution of the Old Testament Hebrew Scriptures were only for one nation, the nation of ancient Israel.
Israel was never in the 'slave-trade business' as to what happened in this country.
Biblical slavery for up to 6 years was to pay off debts. There were No debtor's prisons in ancient Israel.
Ancient Israel sometimes went to war, etc. against God's orders.
So, to me, it was disobedience to God which caused some wars,etc.
God's ordered wars were for the sake of justice, an execution for justice' sake for the righteous.
Whereas, the cruelties of church/Christendom were usually political in nature, Not God-like.
Christendom often equates love of political nation as being the same as love of God.
Sacrificing on the Altar of War as if that is the same as the Altar of God.
Which writings of Paul do you have in mind to justify cruelties.
Click to expand...

You're describing indentured servitude, which is a voluntary arrangement that involves a quid pro quo: "I'll work for you and my labor is payment for my debt."

Unlike slavery, the indentured servant is not beaten to the edge of death or beyond at the whim of an owner, nor is his labor being stolen, nor his children sold.

Which of those do you suppose these describe:
  • "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and you can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly ( Lev. 25:44-46, NIV)."
  • "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property (Ex. 21:20-21, NIV)."
  • "I (the Lord) will sell your sons and daughters to the people of Judah, and they will sell them to the Sabeans, a nation far away (Joel 3:8, NIV)"
Sorry, but the book speaks for itself. This is slavery in the rawest, cruelest sense, and it is fully supported by the scriptures.
 
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