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Islam and women

Mujahid Mohammed

Well-Known Member
Melody said:
I don't know Jamaesi, but that seems to be the interpretation by many islamic clerics who, one would think, know the Qu'ran inside and out.
Salam, In Islam it is not permissible to take someone other than Allah and his Prophet in terms of what the Quran says. That is the problem people interpret our religion according to what others say instead of the source.
 

jamaesi

To Save A Lamb
So what you're saying then is that the clerics who are promoting the view that women be fully veiled...are in error?
Yes.

As to the rest, Faint seems to have answered it.
I urge you to please read this.

Jamaesi,
I apologize if I have offended you in any way. It was not my intention. I was merely trying to understand why a woman not brought up under the restrictions (that I see based on my reading) of Islam would choose to convert to, what appears to me to be, a religion which looks upon women as slightly dimwitted children in need of protection from themselves.

It was not an indictment of you or other muslim women. Just an attempt at understanding.

I'm sorry if I got snappy. It's very frustrating to face the same stereotypes and misinformation over and over. It's one of the reasons I go on lurks from RF. :( If you would look into Islam, especially just focusing on the Qur'an and not what the masses say, a little more I think you would find it's a rather liberating religion for women- especially considering the time when it formed.
 

Mujahid Mohammed

Well-Known Member
Melody said:
Jamaesi,
I apologize if I have offended you in any way. It was not my intention. I was merely trying to understand why a woman not brought up under the restrictions (that I see based on my reading) of Islam would choose to convert to, what appears to me to be, a religion which looks upon women as slightly dimwitted children in need of protection from themselves.

It was not an indictment of you or other muslim women. Just an attempt at understanding.
Again there are many reasons a educated woman in the west would accept Islam. The first and most important reason is that islam is a noun and a verb, it is a religion in which the practictioner can believe in THAT GIVES YOU AN EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT WITHOUT ERROR. A muslim does not just believe, he believes that the words spoken are Allah's (God's word) because we have an evidence to proof the belief. If a woman does what Allah's mandates for her to the best of her ability. The satisfaction of knowing you have obeyed one of Allahs commands and Allah is pleased with that individual is something that can not be measured. That is the most important understanding as to why. Secondly you must understand that at that time woman had NO, I MEAN NO RIGHTS AT ALL. Woman were considered property. They could not vote. Many were buried alive as infants and it was a common practice. Propstitution for women whos husband died was commonplace. There was not limit to how many women one could have and if she was an orphan, many men married them just to steal the inheritance. Rape and justice being implemented after the crime was not heard of. There was a system where the husbands used to cheat on there wives with women of brothel house. they also sold women as slaves or rented out their wives when debt were incurred. It was very bad 9 times out of ten. The woman would be killed before they had a chance to live. One of the many rights Islam brought for woman was 1 the right to live Islam forbid the practice of burying new born girls. Islam also forbid the marrying of as many women as you want and treating them injustly. Give one wife more than the other for whatever reason etc. It also forbid the practice of marrying orphan girls just to steal their inheritance. There was a sense of brotherhood and a honor and respect came to women through Islam. For if the rights of a women in a muslim world are ignored it is the muslims who have the obligation of fighting for their rights. Evey woman has the God given right to be provided for by a man. If she wants to work she can but her husband is entitled to none of her money. The woman actually controls the wealth. If a person is married and truly loved your spouse and you want to keep the eyes of the other gender from looking at you, you would wear hijab, a muslim woman wears her hijab for the same reason that Mary the mother of Jesus or any catholic nun or Christian woman.(men have to be chaste as well) It is a sign for a woman who is chaste. Mary wears it and it is a symbol for chastity if a muslim woman wears it it is a sign of oppression. That is the issue There are many rights of woman in Islam all detailed and guidelined in several hadith and the Quran. Woman used to be forced into marriage and Islam gave them the right to choose or refuse. There are more if you would like more I would be glad to give you more. Remember Islam is only defined by the Prophet and his companions not by the actions of muslims today. You know Islam only by the ones who perfected the religion and Implemented it to perfection as Allah tells us in the Quran. My interpretation of what Islam means or what the Quran means is unacceptable. If Allah said it or the Prophet said it then this is Islam If it is this person saying this and saying that. Then you know hey maybe he is not telling the truth because he is not giving you an evidence. Some say Islam is this and that without giving you the definition according to what the Quran or the authentic hadeeth. Where is the evidence. Be careful of the testimonies of people especially those who are uneducated and either biased or religiously racist. It is only through education that we can learn and understand each other. If you have any questions regarding Islam according to the Quran and authentic prophetic traditions please let me know any time. I hope I have not said anything wrong and if I did know it is from me and not from Allah. May Allah continue to allow us to be curious about what we do not understand and may he allow us to accept the truth with the evidence.
 

Melody

Well-Known Member
So in other words, Islam has the same problem as Christianity in regards to fundamental right wingers who choose to interpret Scripture in a way that makes women seem less worthwhile than men.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond to my query. :)
 

Faint

Well-Known Member
jamaesi said:
Faint- Six different ENGLISH translations of the Qur'an.

I recommend a little research into the meanings of the word (idrib) they translate as "beat." It has about six different meanings (one meaning seperate... Hmm...).
So we cannot trust an English translation of the Qur'an? Are you implying that the only people who can truly understand Islam at all are those who understand arabic? Who do you think does the translating? People with an anti-Islam agenda who only speak English? That's ridiculous. Why do you suppose the translators would choose to not consider alternate meanings of a word like "idrib" (or whatever) to specify "separate"?

Melody said:
So in other words, Islam has the same problem as Christianity in regards to fundamental right wingers who choose to interpret Scripture in a way that makes women seem less worthwhile than men.
Yes, apparently. "Lost in translation" is only the beginning. You have to understand that (1) the texts were written by humans and (2) by using what evolutionary psych calls "Theory of Mind" the best we can do is use the textual symbology to try to figure out what the original authors were initially trying to say. Considering the barbarity of the time period in which the Quran was written...I think it's highly likely that they intended wives to get beaten as a punishment.
 

Peace

Quran & Sunnah
Melody said:
why would any educated woman choose islam?

First of all, I would like to say that I am proud to be a Muslim woman. Islam has given me all my rights and I find nothing in my religion to be ashamed of.
Islam has given me honor and respect. Before the coming of Islam women were treated with disrespect, baby girls were buried alive, women had no right to heritage………
As a Muslim I can keep always my name and family name and I am not obliged to take the man’s name when getting married. As a Muslim I have the right to heritage. As a Muslim I keep my chastity and honor and I don’t get into a relationship until it is official and agreed upon. As a Muslim I keep my modesty by wearing Hijab (The veil) covering all my body except for my face and hands.
For Jamaesi the veil is mentioned in the Quran in two different chapters and it is a fard (obligatory):
“Tell the believing women to lower their eyes, guard their private parts, and not display their charms except what is apparent outwardly, and cover their bosoms with their veils and not to show their finery except to their husbands or their fathers or fathers-in-law, their sons or step-sons, brothers, or their brothers’ and sisters’ sons, or their women attendants or captives, or male attendants who do not have any need (for women), or boys not yet aware of sex. “ Annur "the Light" (24: 31)

“O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters, and the women of the faithful, to draw their wraps a little over them. They will thus be recognized and no harm will come to them. God is forgiving and kind” al-ahzab"The Allied troops" (33: 60)

While wearing the veil I know that I am dealing with men with my intellect and not with my beauty. My body and beauty is dear to me and I won't show it to whoever would like to watch, it is not a product that to be sold or bought.
Islam never oppressed women on the contrary Islam is the one who freed woman from all the ignorance.
Islam enourages seeking knowlege for both men and women.
In Islam woman has:
The RIGHT and duty to acquire education.
The RIGHT to have her own independent property.
The RIGHT to work [job or business] to earn money, which she keeps it.
The RIGHT to equal reward for equal deed and/or work.
The RIGHT to express her opinion.
The RIGHT to argue and/or advocate her cause or opinion to be heard.
The RIGHT to vote
The RIGHT to provisions from her husband for all her needs and more.
The RIGHT to negotiate marriage terms of her choice.
The RIGHT to obtain divorce from her husband, even on the grounds that she simply don't like him. In Islam divorce is suppose to be last resort.
The RIGHT to keep all her own money. [She is not responsible for maintenance of family].
The RIGHT to get sexual satisfaction from her husband.
The RIGHT to get custody of her children in case of divorce [unless she is unable to raise them for valid reasons]
The RIGHT to choose husband of her choice.
The RIGHT to refuse a proposed and/or arranged marriage.
The RIGHT to re-marry after divorce or after becoming widow.

EXEMPTIONS GIVEN TO WOMEN IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCE.

Women are exempt from:

a.. Fasting when they are pregnant or nursing or menstruating,
b.. Praying when menstruating or bleeding after childbirth,
c.. The obligation to attend congregational prayers in the mosque on Fridays.
d.. They are not obliged to take part as soldiers in the defense of Islam, although they are not forbidden to do so.
But under normal circumstances they are allowed to do all the things that men do.

- Even when they are menstruating, on special days, like the two Eid festivals, they are still allowed to come to the Eid prayers, and menstruating women can take part in most of the actions of the Hajj pilgrimage.

Islamic laws do not require that women should confine themselves to household duties.

Muslim women have [and are as well] headed Islamic provinces [and states as well], like Arwa bint Ahmad, who served as governor of Yemen under the Fatimid Khalifahs in the late fifth and early sixth century.

Name any other religion, political theory, or philosophy which offers such a comprehensiveness to women by giving her total control of her life and affairs ??? NONE

Thanks be to God who guided me to Islam where I find my total freedom and honor!

Peace


 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
I must say, Peace, that you gave a beautiful response to how women are held in some high regard in Islam. I was especially moved by your interpretation for why women should veil themselves in order to ensure that their intellect will be dealt with when in the company of men and not their physical attributes. On that note, I would very much like to read your response to Faint's examples lifted from the Qu'ran where it seems that a husband is instructed to beat his wife if she is "out of line" in his eyes.



For me, these verses are troubling at first glance, and they seem to encourage further subjugation of women despite the social freedoms that Muslim women enjoy............how are women held in high regard in the home?




I think I share the same concern as Melody has for ending subjugation of women in all areas, whether it is state-mandated or is subliminal, I believe it must end in all cultures.





Peace,
Mystic
 

croak

Trickster
So we cannot trust an English translation of the Qur'an? Are you implying that the only people who can truly understand Islam at all are those who understand arabic? Who do you think does the translating? People with an anti-Islam agenda who only speak English? That's ridiculous. Why do you suppose the translators would choose to not consider alternate meanings of a word like "idrib" (or whatever) to specify "separate"?
I think we all agree that when words are translated, they can be mistranslated and/or given a specific meaning rather than another.

Here's a fact: did you know that over 90 words, if I remember correctly, mean 'sword' in Arabic? A lot, don't you think? And, obviously, there are many words that can mean different things.

Considering the barbarity of the time period in which the Quran was written...I think it's highly likely that they intended wives to get beaten as a punishment.
If it were written during a peaceful time, it would have a different meaning? If you believe, as Muslims do, that the Qur'an is a revelation from God, then you wouldn't think that he'd command men to beat their wives. It just doesn't make sense.
Most of the things against women are from a nice bunch of so-called 'Sayings of the Prophet'. It is also a collection that says that angels do not enter houses where pictures are, prohibits music, demands dogs (or at least black dogs) be killed... Really, you can find things like that. And more amusing things as well.

Why do I always think that somehow I've made a bad post? Maybe I have...
 

Melody

Well-Known Member
Peace said:
Name any other religion, political theory, or philosophy which offers such a comprehensiveness to women by giving her total control of her life and affairs ??? NONE


Peace,

No disrespect, but while this all looks lovely, it doesn't seem to be put into actual practice in many muslim countries based on what I'm reading in a variety of sources....many of Islamic origin and leaning.

If women have all these rights, then why are they shuttled from father to husband and denied the right to an education and a career?



 

Ezzedean

Active Member
It is taught in the Quran that the man has to take care of the women. The women are given the role of care takers for their children and they have a choice to work or not to work. If a women chooses not to work (which Islamically she has every right not while the man does not) then the man supports the family. If the women chooses to work (which Islamically she has every right to) then whatever she earns from her profession she is capable of doing whatever she wants with that money. She can buy herself jewlery, cars, gifts, dinner, whatever she pleases and not one cent of that has to go towards the family, or the bills (and the man can't say a damn thing) This is a womans right. For Example. If wife makes $100 thousand a year and husband makes $50 thousand a year, the wife although she makes more money than the husband can do WHATEVER she wants with that money, and the man has to put his money towards the family. A woman is also given a dowry. It is set before marriage, for an x amount of money. If the man divorces his wife, he HAS to give her that X amount of money afterwards. Although the man is the head of the household, he cannot make a decision without discussing it with his wife. Islam stopped women from being slaves, and gave them the right to divorce there husband ( a right in which they didn't have before). Yes, women are asked to cover themselves in a respectful manner, what's wrong with that? Would you rather a religion say something along the lines of "O dear Women. Dress in miny skirts, and flaunt your breasts to the men of earth so that when the men look at you they can indulge in sexual thoughts towards you. Verily when you dress like this you are gaining the respect of all whom cross your path". Take it from a mans point of view, and from a man who has hung around men who see women as pieces of meat, and the women who get it the worse are the ones who dress like trash, and the ones who get the most respect are the ones who cover themselves (not necessarily with a hijab) and by the way the covering of a womens head is solely up to the women.

We are to treat our wives and daughters like queens, and that is taught by the prophet Muhammed himself. Men work and live to protect there wives and children. Why wouldn't a women want to be a muslim? Don't be fooled by the media and what you read on the internet, a lot of it is junk.

Peace
 

Ezzedean

Active Member
Melody said:
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Peace,

No disrespect, but while this all looks lovely, it doesn't seem to be put into actual practice in many muslim countries based on what I'm reading in a variety of sources....many of Islamic origin and leaning.

If women have all these rights, then why are they shuttled from father to husband and denied the right to an education and a career?

Go speak to those muslim women you speak of and tell me if they say they are unhappy, or feel deprived. I can bet you millions that they wont. Muslim women are to gain knowledge just as men are to do the same, so this would involve education. Just because western society advertises women as sexual objects and food for the eyes, it doesn't mean that it's okay, and it definately doesn't mean that you are free. I'll tell you why. The way western society has advertised women in the media has caused many teenage girls to become depressed and at times suicidal because they fell that there body isn't good enough, or because they are too ugly. Western society has portrayed women in such disgusting ways to the point where many are throwing up after eating, and taking ephedryn pills to keep weight off. Instead of asking why would a women want to be a part of Islam, shouldn't the question be "why would a women want to be a part of western society?".

PEace
 

martha

Active Member
An educated woman would convert to Islam because the basic premises of Islam are the same as those in Christianity, Bhudism, Hinduism and the Jewish beliefs, to mention a few.
Basically the tenants of Islam are good, but as with most all religions there is the matter of interpretation. In the Catholic bible it says that a woman should submit to her husband. In the wedding ceremony it says. ...."To love honor and obey" It is my belief that cultural influences are at the fore in most respects to Islamic countries and also in European countries, not to mention America. In most European countries and America, women have asserted their independance and proven their ability to be equal with men. In some Islamic and Asian societies, women have not reached that potential, yet. They are beginning to assert themselves, but it is difficult when you are up against a mostly male dominated society that bases it's rules upon the literal translation of their specific written doctrines. In some South American countries the man has the last word about his wife and her behaviours. Many of those South American men have physically mutilated their wives and gotten away with it because of their belief that a man is the one who is in charge and a woman is subservient to men. "Machismo" is the word that comes to mind. Let us not forget that it was not so very long ago in America that a similar thought was pretty much the rule. Women were to be seen but not heard.
The expression, "You've come a long way baby!" is still just a dream for millions of women in the world.
There are radicals and extremist in all religions. As for the christians of which I am a catholic, I have seen gross misrepresentations of the bible. Interpretation is the key. The KKK, or White Supremists come to mind at the moment.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with following a husband who is an upright, spiritual man, with the concerns of humanity in his heart. But a man who tries to demean or keep a woman down just because he thinks he can and should, because of his interpretation of the Word that he believes in, that man has lost sight of God's directive.
Hope I didn't get too off topic here. If I did, then chalk it up to me haveing a voice and being bold with it, and living in a country where I can! That is just the little radical woman inside of me I guess.:D
 

martha

Active Member
Ezzedean, I tend to agree with you regarding western society. We have gotten so very wrapped up in the world that we have forgotten family, and God's ways.
It is all about self gratification in this life. We see kids killing each other over tiny little things and words that are so very insignificant. The reverence for the life that the Almighty has given us seems to be of no significance.
Now I see on the news where young kids are beating each other up for entertainment value and posting the videos on the internet. This is ludicrous! Our kids need fathers and mothers who will be there for them every day and good faith filled parents that will teach them right from wrong and teach them love. Islam teaches that, Christianity teaches that, and all of the religions teach that. We have become full of ourselves.If an educated woman seeks out these truths, then I would say that Islam is also a good way to go. Not the extremists way in Islam but the heart of Islam.

As far as a woman covering herself to a certain degree so that her intelect is viewed instead of her beauty, well... I really agree with that . Good gracious, am I about to convert from Catholisism to Islam? Well not just yet. I follow Jesus and His teachings and try to live my life in His Way. But I can still have great respect for the truth of Islam.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
Every culture seems to have it's own experiences with degrading women. Lets not judge Islam too harshly. Our own religions/cultures have probably done the same.
 

martha

Active Member
To the one who said Maesi to me. I respond (phonetically) Taab Mesh. Then I question are you Egyptian? Tali.
 
Assalaam Alaikum all

The "rights and status of women" was the subject of our Holy Prophets (peace and blessings be upon Him) Last Sermon
http://www.themodernreligion.com/prophet/prophet_lastsermon.htm

Please check it.

To the translations of Chapter 4 verse 34 add Asads http://www.geocities.com/masad02/004pretation.

and read the commentary.

About the so called "clerics". In my opinion, in the modern context we must be very careful who we listen to. The Quran puts heavy emphasis on one s own thinking and striving to understand.And we must read and re read the Holy Scripture.
 

Peace

Quran & Sunnah
MysticSang'ha said:
I would very much like to read your response to Faint's examples lifted from the Qu'ran where it seems that a husband is instructed to beat his wife if she is "out of line" in his eyes.

with pleasure dear MysticSang'ha :)

Chapter # 4: 34 (by the way the whole chapter is called "Women" which indicates the high elevated status of woman in Islam ) goes as follows:

"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband’s absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband’s property). As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great. "(4:34)

How can Islam encourage beating women when the prophet of Islam peace be upon him had never NEVER beat a woman in his life.

Look at the following interpretation by MOHAMMED ABDUL MALEK

The verse instructs a husband whose wife causes problems in their marriage to first talk to her about it, then leave the marital bed, then {adriboo} his wife, and all of this in view of pursuing a reconciliation as is evident from the subsequent verse 4:35.

ADRIBOO

The Arabic word used here, {adriboo}, from the root {d-r-b}, has several dozens of meanings, such as: 'to beat', but also: 'to forsake, to avoid, to separate, to leave, to part'.

How do we know which interpretation to choose? One way to find out is to relate this verse to other verses in the Glorious Qur'an and to check if the meanings make sense. In this case, let us look at verse 24:2, which describes what should be done in case of adultery:

"The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, - flog each of them with a hundred stripes..." (Noble Qur'an 24:2)
This verse establishes the principle that for men and women, equal actions lead to equal punishment. When for adultery men and women must receive equal punishment, surely there is no reason why they should be treated differently for any lesser marital problem.

Now let us take a look at the consequences of interpreting {adriboo} one way or another.

Suppose {adriboo} means: 'to beat'.

In this case, verse 4:34 says that when a wife causes a problem in the marriage, her husband should first talk to her about it, then leave their bed, then beat her and all of this in view of increasing his chances of a reconciliation. On the emotional level, this certainly does not sound like a very promising course of action. So let us check this meaning against the bigger framework and in particular against the principle of 'equal behaviour leads to equal punishment'. This would imply that when a husband causes a problem in the marriage, his wife can beat him. At which he could invoke verse 4:34 to beat her again, so that the result would be a perpetual physical fight between spouses! Surely, this makes no sense at all. And indeed, it is not what Allah prescribes for the situation where a husband causes a rift, as will be explained in a moment.

Suppose {adriboo} means: 'to forsake, to avoid', possibly, as Mohammed Abdul Malek suggests: 'to separate, to part'.

Now what do we get? Verse 4:34 now says that when a wife causes a problem in the marriage, her husband should first talk to her about it, then leave their bed (forsaking his sexual satisfaction), then avoid her even more (not talking to her anymore, leaving the room when she enters it, and possibly even leaving the house for a while), in order to prevent things from getting worse, and on the contrary to let things cool down and create enough space in view of increasing chances of a reconciliation.

This sounds like a very logical chain of events.

Also, application of the general rule of verse 24:2 ('equal actions, equal punishment') now means that when a husband causes a marital problem, his wife should forsake a few of her rights, avoid her husband in increasing ways, and try to work towards a reconciliation. And yes, that is precisely what verse 4:128 says:

"If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves" (Glorious Qur'an 4:128)
Understanding {adriboo} as 'to forsake, to (gradually) avoid (more and more), possibly eventually leave altogether', clearly makes sense when relating several verses to one another.

And there is more. Beating a wife, would contradict hadiths of the Noble Prophet who repeatedly said: “do not beat believing women!”. It would also contradict the Noble Prophet's instructions about anger – which he explained to originate from Satan and which he described as "a living coal on one's heart". One should not act upon ones anger, lest one would do things one would regret later. When you are angry when you are standing, sit down, the Prophet (pbuh) said. And when you are still angry when you are sitting, then lie down. Interpreting this verse as allowing a husband to beat his wife, surely contradicts these rulings on anger.

Furthermore, Allah says in the Noble Qur'an that one must meet bad behaviour with something that is better, not with something that is worse, in order to turn a hostile situation into a friendly one:

"Nor can goodness and Evil be equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better: Then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate!" (Noble Qur'an 41:13)
Therefore the word {adriboo} cannot really have meant “to beat”, can it?. It must mean something that is better than causing problems, and avoiding the problem certainly is exactly that.

Based on the evidence presented here, it would seem that interpreting {adriboo} as 'to beat', causes several internal conflicts with the meaning of other Qur'anic verses and hadiths, while interpreting it as 'gradually forsaking, more and more and possibly leaving altogether', is a much more logical interpretation that is entirely consistent with the interpretation of other rules in the Glorious Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Noble Prophet Muhammad.

What makes much more sense, is that this verse does not allow a 'superior' husband to 'beat' his 'inferior, disobedient' wife. On the contrary, this verse appears to tell us that a husband must look after his wife (an equal partner who, like he, is obedient to God), and that when his wife is causing problems in their marriage, he should first talk to her about it, if that doesn't help, he should begin avoiding her by leaving the marital bed. If that still doesn't resolve the situation, he should forsake her presence even more, avoid conversations, leave a room when she enters it, avoid her company altogether, and possibly leave the house for a while, so that no problems are added to the conflict, and so that things can cool down a bit to maximize chances for a later reconciliation.

 

Peace

Quran & Sunnah
Return to obedience?
When the problem is solved, when the wife is committed to the marriage again, then the husband is advised not to keep using the incident against her and to consider the incident closed.
The exact Arabic wording is: "when then they (fem.pl.) {aTa:} (with) you (masc.pl.), then seek not against them (fem.pl) means of annoyance". The verb {aTa:} (alif taa alif ayn) has several meanings, such as: 'obey', but also: 'comply, comply with, accommodate, give in to', or in French 'filer doux'. Consequently, the verse can be understood to mean: "when then they are committed to the marriage again", or: "when then they give in to/comply with the efforts of the husband to save the marriage", or "when they no longer cause marriage problems", ... Linguistically there is no compelling necessity to translate {aTa:} as "obedient to the husband" . Other interpretations are possible and indeed preferable. Earlier in the verse, there was no reason at all to translate {qanitat} as women who are "obedient to their husband" so that here there isn't any reason to imply that this verse is about a temporary disobedience and a subsequent return to obedience to their husbands. It is not a matter of obedience to him, it is a matter of {nushooz} (marriage problems). And the Noble Qur'an advises that when one of the partners causes a marriage problem, the other should gradually avoid the person who causes the problem, in order to save the marriage - irrespective of who started the strife (4:34, 4:128)
 

Peace

Quran & Sunnah
Melody said:
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Peace,

No disrespect, but while this all looks lovely, it doesn't seem to be put into actual practice in many muslim countries based on what I'm reading in a variety of sources....many of Islamic origin and leaning.

If women have all these rights, then why are they shuttled from father to husband and denied the right to an education and a career?


My dear Melody-- if Islam is to put into practice in our societies our position in the world won't be like what it looks now. If Islam is to put into practice we will surely be and without doubt the most developed nation in the world as we were before when Islam was really put in practice. Just go and look at our brilliant history.
However; this doesn't mean that this doesn't exist at all, it does exist within Muslim familes who obey Allah and do practice what is written in the Quran and the Sunnah (Tradition of the Prophet).
What you see from wives' beating and ill treatment comes from culture and ignorance and not from Islam.

Peace
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Thank you, Peace, for your explanation. I'm learning a lot, now.



I had to chuckle over the logic of following the argument that if a husband is allowed to beat his wife, then by order from Allah, the wife should be allowed to beat her husband since there is equal punishment given to both partners. It WOULD be a never-ending fight! :areyoucra



But, the translation of "adriboo" into a further kind of seperation in order to cool things off makes more sense when put into context with other verses from the Qur'an. I have my own copy, and although I have only read perhaps half of it, it was hard to put down. It is overall a beautiful piece of work, I think, and a joy to read. :)



Peace,
Mystic
 
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