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The Gospels. Any 'Difficult' verses?
- Thread starter oldbadger
- Start date
Interesting.... I have read the Gospels multiple times and I don't remember finding even one that I would have preferred not seeing.
Well... maybe one difficult one for some. Having to forgive people
Riders
Well-Known Member
Answer: In Matthew 15:21–28, Jesus encounters a Canaanite woman who begs Him to cure her daughter. Jesus initially refuses her request by saying, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs” (Matthew 15:26). Taken out of context, and especially in English, it’s easy to mistake this for an insult. In the flow of the story, however, it’s clear Jesus is creating a metaphor meant to explain the priorities of His ministry. He is also teaching an important lesson to His disciples.
I disagree with the assesment. Jesus was referring to his class and group he was associated with and this woman was with a group that his class shouldn't be associating with, the fact that Jesus used the dog term is cruel and a sign that Jesus did not mean his ministry to preached tot he world but rather to his own Jewish group, look how mean he is.
I disagree with the assesment. Jesus was referring to his class and group he was associated with and this woman was with a group that his class shouldn't be associating with, the fact that Jesus used the dog term is cruel and a sign that Jesus did not mean his ministry to preached tot he world but rather to his own Jewish group, look how mean he is.
Jonathan Ainsley Bain
Logical Positivist
Its the 'walking on water' verse that is most difficult for me.
I seem to recall it being suggested that it was not meant to be literal
but perhaps just a figurative message about him being a source of comfort and calm.
But I can't help wondering if he perhaps had alien technology or levitation powers.
I think that is more of an interpretation (by you) than what Jesus was actually doing.
The obvious reason one can know you are wrong in your interpretation is that Jesus healed the daughter. If she was one that he really believe that she was a "dog" he would never had healed the daughter.
The cursing of the fig tree. Mark 11:12-14
I think it was. I wonder if he was showing us that there is much more to our capacity than what we know.
What makes it difficult for you?
Makes me think fanaticism, maybe trees have a choice, still up in air about that.
If you look at the word Jesus used for "dogs" in this verse you will see something interesting.
The word is "kynarion" and it means "little dogs" or puppies....not a "dog" in any derogatory sense. The woman was not insulted by Jesus' words but used the expression to acknowledge that 'the little dogs eat the crumbs falling from their master's table'.
Matthew 15:21-28 says in context....
"Jesus went away from there, and withdrew into the district of Tyre and Sidon. 22 And a Canaanite woman from that region came out and began to cry out, saying, “Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is cruelly demon-possessed.” 23 But He did not answer her a word. And His disciples came and implored Him, saying, “Send her away, because she keeps shouting at us.” 24 But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” 25 But she came and began to bow down before Him, saying, “Lord, help me!” 26 And He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the [little] dogs.” 27 But she said, “Yes, Lord; but even the [little] dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.” 28 Then Jesus said to her, “O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish.” And her daughter was healed at once." (NASB)
This Canaanite woman had obviously acknowledged Jesus as the "Lord, Son of David", but not being "of the house of Israel", Jesus was not sent to those ones (as it was prophesied in the scriptures). The Gentiles would come in later. Jesus was sent only to the Jews as descendants of Abraham, to whom God made a promise concerning his offspring. This did not prevent him, on occasion, from ministering to those outside of Israel to people of faith.....like the Samaritan woman at the well.
Yet the Canaanite woman's faith and persistence as a "little dog" or "puppy" patiently waiting for the spiritual "crumbs" touched Jesus' heart and he rewarded her faith by granting her request.
Sometimes things can get lost in the translation. Look up the original words and it often makes more sense.
Since Jesus as the son of God was resurrected as a spirit, defying gravity was not a problem for him. The miraculous gifts were bestowed on sinful humans enabling them to perform miracles. Jesus was giving Peter a demonstration of what faith can accomplish.....as soon as he gave way to doubt, he sank like a stone. Of course it was literal. Why wouldn't it be?
Again, there was a lesson. Jesus often used literal things to give added meaning to figurative admonition.
Matthew 21:18-22:
"While returning to the city early in the morning, he felt hungry. 19 He caught sight of a fig tree by the road and went to it, but he found nothing on it except leaves, and he said to it: “Let no fruit come from you ever again.” And the fig tree withered instantly. 20 When the disciples saw this, they were amazed and said: “How is it that the fig tree withered instantly?” 21 In answer Jesus said to them: “Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only will you do what I did to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ it will happen. 22 And all the things you ask in prayer, having faith, you will receive.”
The fig tree was not producing fruit, it was all leaves and so Jesus cursed it. It withered up and died.
As Jesus explained.....“Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only will you do what I did to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ it will happen. And all the things you ask in prayer, having faith, you will receive.”
It was a demonstration of the power of faith.
Jonathan Ainsley Bain
Logical Positivist
directly after walking on water the Bible reads:
So there is a 'real meaning' for both 'miracles'
implying that they were not material miracles, or perhaps something else?
Thats why I sometimes find it difficult to grasp.
That I totally see, so I try not to take the tree thing personal, the miracles are always about a greater message.
Why? Is there anything at all therein that you have a genuine interest in debating, or is the aim just one more silly Bible-bashing thread?
Matthew 6:6 Pray in secret. It makes zero sense in Christianity today, because the concept of prayer changed so much for most Christians today. Nobody thinks that prayer is itself something that deserves a reward, like a way of transforming yourself or kind of meditation. They think you get answers to prayer of yes or no. Prayer is different, so this verse does not fit into most of the Christian universe today.
Matthew 19:21 & Mark 10:21 Sell your possessions to give to the poor etc. Nobody does this. If a Christian does this, the other Christians might say "I respect that, but you're being extreme or crazy." Its because the Bible is taken literally. People cannot handle a literal interpretation of this in the current culture. You'd have to be living in a commune. You can't just sell everything and expect God to take up the slack. People have tried it. You need a commune for it to work. Its a basis for a communism that might actually work as opposed to a Marxist communism, but few Christians risk it. Donations are what substitute for it today, and they come nowhere near to 'Selling all your possessions'. Note there are homeless people. That would not be possible if all Christians sold their possessions and gave them to the poor. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, because its ridiculous to claim otherwise. Additionally it doesn't say "Sell your possessions to give to a church building fund." or "Sell your possessions to support missions." or "Sell your possessions so the ministry can eat."
That fig tree's leaves were un-seasonally early, thus since leaves are early could indicate figs are also early.
However, that fig tree was giving a deceptive appearance ( like the Pharisees ) in Jerusalem - Mark 11:15
Continue reading at Mark 11:20-33
Jesus was teaching an object lesson to his disciples on their need to have faith in God, and in their quality of faith.
That unfaithful nation was like that fig tree ( deceptive ). Outwardly appearing to observe what God said.
Being unfaithful proved them to be without faith, or being barren of having good fruitage.
The results of that cursed nation resulted in being a fruitless, or a faithless nation.
So, that fig tree would serve as a reminder to Jesus' followers of how Not to be faithless or unfaithful.
It also serves as a vivid ' word picture ' reminding us to also Not be unfaithful or faithless.
Jesus also said to his apostles.... “I have many things yet to say to you, but you are not able to bear them at present" (John 16:12)
After saying these things, their failure to grasp many things would be rectified once the promised holy spirit was granted to them at Pentecost.
This is why we need knowledge of all that Jesus taught. Even his apostles were puzzled at times, but waited for an explanation. Once when Jesus once spoke about 'eating his flesh and drinking his blood', his Jewish audience were immediately stumbled because they took his words literally. The apostles were trying hard not to be stumbled as well. When everyone else left in disgust, Jesus said to the 12....'are you going to go away too'? Peter responded "Lord whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life". So Jesus went on to explain what he meant. It was a figurative reference to his sacrificial death and its meaning for those who inherited salvation through faith in his shed blood.
He did not chase after the ones who left, but allowed their own hearts to draw them back to him. If we are looking for excuses to leave, Jesus will not chase after us either. Our own hearts know the ring of truth when we hear it. If God is 'drawing' us, it is a hard power to resist. (John 6:44) People in Jesus' day had to go against everything they were taught by the Pharisees and return to the true meaning of God's word. This made them outcasts in their own faith....but not to God.
The people in the boat were literal, and Jesus was still literally physically alive indicating literal.
More amazing is that ALL of Jesus' resurrections were bringing people back to literal healthy life on Earth.
Besides walking on water, Jesus also demonstrated his ability to calm the stormy sea - Mark 6:47-51; Mark 4:39
The words from Jesus' mouth calmed that stormy sea.
In other words, Jesus will have control over weather phenomenon under his 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth.
As to what powers Jesus had, we will find out at that millennium-long day of Jesus governing over Earth.
For now, we will have to settle for us 'walking on water' when it is frozen !