FDA imprisons Amish farmer

Deeje · Mar 4, 2017

Jeremiahcp said:
Oh, that's right you don't believe in academics, higher learning, or science. You won't have clue what a genuine study even looks like, much less how to read it.

I don't believe "genuine studies" are ever conducted. The parties with the vested interests in ill health do not want to cure anyone. They just want to develop "treatments" so that they can guarantee customers for the rest of their lives. Ever stood at the drug store counter and watch elderly people getting their medications? Its truly mind boggling!

I once saw an elderly gentleman still working into his late seventies just so he could afford his wife's medication. Is that OK with you?

Now, can you tell me about the placebo effect? We know that drug companies have to do double blind studies so as to balance out this well known phenomenon. Sugar pills cure diseases because people believe in them. What does that tell you about the power of the mind over the body? If the placebo effect works, (and scientists know it does) why not harness it if it cures people? The answer is obvious.
When those on drug trials gain good results and then discover that they have taken a placebo, they want to continue the sugar pills, but they are not allowed to. Even those who may gain some benefit from the real drug, they are not allowed to continue after the trial is over...they have to go home and wait 10 years for the drug to gain FDA "approval".
Tell me what's wrong with that picture.....?

Deeje · Mar 4, 2017

Jeremiahcp said:
Any real data? Any real data? Any real data? Any real data? Any real data? Any real data? Any real data? Any real data?

Not the kind that big pharma would ever allow the public to read.

But here is some real data on the drug Ritalin, which is routinely given to children....

www.pic4ever.com/images/297.gif

Jeremiahcp · Mar 4, 2017

@Deeje I am not interested in your opinion on the matter, I want to see actual evidence that you have a better method for treatment than every other doctor in this world.

You are claiming you know how to cure cancer, and you don't need science to do it, you can just make up stuff off the top of your head. I have never seen an ego so large. Where is the proof? And I am not interested in your thoughts, show me a real scientific study proving it.

Deeje · Mar 4, 2017

Jeremiahcp said:
@Deeje I am not interested in your opinion on the matter, I want to see actual evidence that you have a better method for treatment than every other doctor in this world.

You are claiming you know how to cure cancer, and you don't need science to do it, you can just make up stuff off the top of your head. I have never seen an ego so large. Where is the proof? And I am not interested in your thoughts, show me a real scientific study proving it.

Watch the video I posted and then watch the follow ups. The medical professionals will give you all the information you need.
This is the second in the series.....

Jeremiahcp · Mar 4, 2017

Deeje said:
Watch the video I posted and then watch the follow ups. The medical professionals will give you all the information you need.
This is the second in the series.....

You really don't have an idea what a real study looks like do you?

Deeje · Mar 4, 2017

You really don't have an idea what a real study looks like do you?

I know what a staged study looks like. I know a fox guarding the hen house when I see one.

You have not addressed a single point that I have made in any of my responses......that would be because you can't address them or wish to deny them?

Here is another video in a series by a young man who refused chemo and lived to find his own cure in nutrition.

He interviews a former oncology nurse who had to quit once she realized what conventional treatments were doing and that unorthodox methods were having great success. She enumerates quite a few different therapies......there are many.

Jeremiahcp · Mar 4, 2017

Deeje said:
I know what a staged study looks like. I know a fox guarding the hen house when I see one.

You have not addressed a single point that I have made in any of my responses......that would be because you can't address them or wish to deny them?

Here is another video in a series by a young man who refused chemo and lived to find his own cure in nutrition.

He interviews a former oncology nurse who had to quit once she realized what conventional treatments were doing and that unorthodox methods were having great success. She enumerates quite a few different therapies......there are many.

"that would be because you can't address them or wish to deny them?"

Because I realize it is just rhetoric and that you are not an authority of any measure on this subject, but I don't think you know the difference between rhetoric and data.

Deeje · Mar 4, 2017

Jeremiahcp said:
"that would be because you can't address them or wish to deny them?"

Because I realize it is just rhetoric and that you are not an authority of any measure on this subject, but I don't think you know the difference between rhetoric and data.

Denial is indeed a sad state to be in. You can't handle the truth eh? OK then....no point in continuing.....you have provided nothing but criticism. Empty rhetoric on your part it seems. Where is your data?

Jeremiahcp · Mar 4, 2017

Deeje said:
Denial is indeed a sad state to be in. You can't handle the truth eh? OK then....no point in continuing.....you have provided nothing but criticism. Empty rhetoric on your part it seems. Where is your data?

"Where is your data?"

Data for what? You are the one pretending you know how to cure cancer.

Deeje · Mar 5, 2017

Jeremiahcp said:
"Where is your data?"

Data for what?

Can you produce proof that the health industry is not milking the general public by peddling their poisonous chemotherapy to keep patients from getting well, instead of providing genuine medicine to cure their cancers. Cures for cancer have been around for many decades, but they have all been suppressed or shut down despite the fact that they were successfully curing people. No cures are allowed.

You are the one pretending you know how to cure cancer.

I am not pretending anything. I have provided many testimonials from medical professionals who can attest to the fact that cancer can be cured. What have you provided? Criticism....empty rhetoric.....nothing else.

Here is another video outlining the takeover of medicine by those who saw it as a lucrative economic investment.

Tell me if you were aware of this history.....?

Also...

tytlyf · Mar 5, 2017

So the argument from the right is that the FDA does nothing good for America and is taking advantage of a farmer? Because Big Pharma doesn't want competition so they are using the FDA to target this guy?

That doesn't make any sense.

What makes sense is to stop electing republicans in congress who are bought and paid for by Big Pharma if you're angry about this FDA issue. It isn't democrats who are lobbied and using the FDA to take out the 'little guy.' Republicans don't even realize they're contributing to the problem.

Shadow Wolf · Mar 5, 2017

Deeje said:
I am not pretending anything. I have provided many testimonials from medical professionals who can attest to the fact that cancer can be cured. What have you provided? Criticism....empty rhetoric.....nothing else.

If these people are saying "cancer can be cured," you should not take them too seriously, because not all cancers are created equally. A number of cancers we can cure generally with no problem with early detection, but some of them are much harder to cure, some we cannot yet cure, and some we can cure but symptoms generally don't manifest until it's too late.

freethinker44 · Mar 5, 2017

So some snake oil salesman is shut down and I'm supposed to feel sorry for him?

Jeremiahcp · Mar 5, 2017

Deeje said:
Can you produce proof that the health industry is not milking the general public by peddling their poisonous chemotherapy to keep patients from getting well, instead of providing genuine medicine to cure their cancers. Cures for cancer have been around for many decades, but they have all been suppressed or shut down despite the fact that they were successfully curing people. No cures are allowed.

I am not pretending anything. I have provided many testimonials from medical professionals who can attest to the fact that cancer can be cured. What have you provided? Criticism....empty rhetoric.....nothing else.

Here is another video outlining the takeover of medicine by those who saw it as a lucrative economic investment.

Tell me if you were aware of this history.....?

"Can you produce proof that the health industry is not milking the general public by peddling their poisonous chemotherapy to keep patients from getting well, instead of providing genuine medicine to cure their cancers. "

Can you produce evidence I don't have four arms?

You are the one making all the wild claims, the onus of proof lies on you. You have the cure for cancer? Stop hogging it, people are dying.

"I have provided many testimonials from medical professionals who can attest to the fact that cancer can be cured."

You provided a series of Youtube videos because you have no clue what a real study looks like. I am sorry but these testimonials don't prove anything. There are plenty of people who have been cured by chemo, who could give their own testimonials. It is rhetoric, not hard evidence. Try to learn the difference.

You have not given one shred of real evidence to support your claim, and it is a bit sad that you think you have.

9-10ths_Penguin · Mar 5, 2017

Deeje said:
Yep!....herbal fraud, herbal negligence and reckless herbal indifference. Completely frightening
He may as well be peddling ICE!!! Such a criminal!

Even if there wasn't anything toxic in what he was selling - there was, but if there wasn't - he would still be lying to his customers, selling fake products, and causing harm by delaying real treatment.

9-10ths_Penguin · Mar 5, 2017

freethinker44 said:
So some snake oil salesman is shut down and I'm supposed to feel sorry for him?

Well, he's Amish. That means he's supposedly likeable and incapable of fraud... I guess?

Also, he's one guy who owns his own small business. Individuals never cheat or harm people; it's only big corporations who do that.

Shadow Wolf · Mar 5, 2017

I, for one, do not desire to go back to the days of this:

For all the complaints I have about big pharma, it's still better than letting people make claims about whatever and not warn people of possible side effects. And that isn't just a law, it is basic/general treatment ethics. If a doctor and pharmacist were not to provide a list of possible side effects, it is possible they could loose their license. This guy is guilty of some serious offenses, including tampering with a witness. Any of his charges on their own are not taken lightly, and he got a combo of them.
The guy was warned. He didn't stop. Now he suffers the consequences. Let us take a moment to think about what he actually did:

The government charged the Bath County man with conspiracy to impede an officer, obstruction of a proceeding before an agency, failing to register with the FDA, eights counts of causing misbranded drugs to be introduced into interstate commerce, tampering with a witness and failure to appear. The jury found Girod guilty on all 13 counts.

Failure to appear is his lightest, and that alone means turn yourself in or run and dodge the cops until you get caught, making things harder on yourself the longer you wait. We have these laws for a reason, and those reasons are often because we showed a very horrible side of ourselves that needed some safe guard, such as Internal Board Reviews. Not everything's perfect, but it's better than letting people claim non-proven healing ability and failing to warn people about side effects. Add than to his other legal troubles of behaviors judges and police do not like and prosecutors will pick at, and I see absolutely nothing wrong with his confinement, especially since he was warned, a behavior that in particular really pisses off judges.

Deeje · Mar 7, 2017

9-10ths_Penguin said:
Even if there wasn't anything toxic in what he was selling - there was, but if there wasn't - he would still be lying to his customers, selling fake products, and causing harm by delaying real treatment.

Oh please. As soon as the "Big C" is diagnosed the medical profession gives these poor hapless souls three urgent choices......each one is known to exacerbate the condition. Chemotherapy sets the patient up, not only for a recurrence of their cancer (if that poison doesn't kill them outright) but a whole bunch of secondary cancers. An already weakened immune system is made weaker by killing off any good immune cells remaining, and this opens the patient up for all manner of infection and other cancers.

Radiation therapy is also recommended, but we know that radiation itself causes cancer.

The third option is surgery, but surgeons know that this poses the risk of introducing cancer cells into the bloodstream where they can metastasize in other parts of the body.

Natural therapies do not harm the body, but allow its own healing abilities to kick in and fight infection or invasion of foreign cells. The natural herbal products are no more "fake" than big pharma's drugs. There is no harm caused by avoiding "real treatments" that are nothing of the sort. Even medical professional acknowledge this....people have been fooled into placing their faith in the wrong kind of medicine.

See Death by doctoring|Fraught with risks and side effects

9-10ths_Penguin said:
Well, he's Amish. That means he's supposedly likeable and incapable of fraud... I guess?

Also, he's one guy who owns his own small business. Individuals never cheat or harm people; it's only big corporations who do that.

Small business can cheat and harm people, there is no disputing that, and being "religious" is no guarantee either....but the harm they cause is nowhere near the scale that corporate drug companies are responsible for....not even in the ballpark.

The worst thing herbs and vitamins can do is give you expensive urine. They won't kill you. The same cannot be said for artificial pharmaceutical concoctions.

Deeje · Mar 7, 2017

Shadow Wolf said:
For all the complaints I have about big pharma, it's still better than letting people make claims about whatever and not warn people of possible side effects. And that isn't just a law, it is basic/general treatment ethics. If a doctor and pharmacist were not to provide a list of possible side effects, it is possible they could loose their license. This guy is guilty of some serious offenses, including tampering with a witness. Any of his charges on their own are not taken lightly, and he got a combo of them.
The guy was warned. He didn't stop. Now he suffers the consequences. Let us take a moment to think about what he actually did:

Nobody wants to see the return of the snake oil salesmen, but most people don't seem to recognize who the peddlers of the real snake oil are.
This is akin to the medicinal cannabis issue. Should those who provide medicine that has been proven to benefit many people including children with intractable epilepsy, be thrown in jail for helping people and to alleviate their suffering, just because it might make pharma drugs redundant? Should a person be arrested for growing a medicinal plant? If they can make medicines at home that work to alleviate their own suffering, should they be treated like criminals?

Shadow Wolf said:
We have these laws for a reason, and those reasons are often because we showed a very horrible side of ourselves that needed some safe guard, such as Internal Board Reviews. Not everything's perfect, but it's better than letting people claim non-proven healing ability and failing to warn people about side effects.

There is a big difference between safeguarding people's health and preventing them from gaining control of their own health and well being. We all know that financial interests are the driving force behind the prosecutions, not concern for people's health.

Can you explain why there is such a swing away from orthodox medicine now? If it actually worked, people would keep supporting it, but they are abandoning it in droves.....sick of the ineptitude of doctors who simply peddle symptomatic relief. How many doctors are interested in getting to the cause of disease? They are trained to give you pills....and when these make you sicker, they will give you more pills and line the pockets of the drug barons....the legal drug barons.

Prescription drugs kill more people every years that all illicit drugs combined. That is a sobering statistic.

Prescription Drugs Are More Deadly Than Street Drugs

Shadow Wolf · Mar 7, 2017

Deeje said:
Nobody wants to see the return of the snake oil salesmen, but most people don't seem to recognize who the peddlers of the real snake oil are.

When you claim a product can heal something it can't and fail to warn about side effects, you are selling snake oil.

Deeje said:
This is akin to the medicinal cannabis issue. Should those who provide medicine that has been proven to benefit many people including children with intractable epilepsy, be thrown in jail for helping people and to alleviate their suffering, just because it might make pharma drugs redundant? Should a person be arrested for growing a medicinal plant?

Cannabis has tons of research backing it up, and those who administer it must still warn of possible side effects. Making false claim and failing to warn of possible side effects is what makes this incident a crime. People can turn to other methods, and for minor stuff sometimes a simple herbal remedy can help (several of our medications are even just derived from and synthetic forms of various plants). But it becomes problematic when you make exaggerated and false claims, and with him failing to warn of side effects, he is either ignorant of them, meaning he shouldn't be doing such a thing, and/or he just doesn't care about it, making it seem he has a skewed vision of what ethics are. Considering his troubles also extent to conspiracy to impede an officer and and investigation and witness tampering, my guess is he probably isn't overly concerned about ethics.

Deeje said:
Can you explain why there is such a swing away from orthodox medicine now?

Droves of people also believe that light emitted from stars millions and billions years ago that reached the Earth the day of their birth foretells their future, characteristics, and personality. We have arm chair psychologists who think anecdotal experience is sufficient for hard evidence, and droves of people saying evolution is "just a theory." They also get caught up in trendy fad diets that are often unhealthy and even sometimes dangerous for certain people, and in the end do nothing to address long-term habit changes, especially when they say "loose weight and eat all you want and don't exercise more than you do."

Deeje said:
If it actually worked, people would keep supporting it, but they are abandoning it in droves.

Most people are still supporting Western medicine. Even in the East, where it's not unusual to find traditional medicine, they too are embracing Western medicine, and that is because it works. Vaccines that prevent many terrible diseases, simple antibiotics to make it less likely something like an insect bite will kill us, and even enough women now who are now surviving child birth who would have died during previous times that I read on the BBC not too long ago that the average woman's hips are slightly narrowing.
And when you take out the advertisements, insurance companies, and remove the "for profit" aspect, other Western nations have largely about the same medical approaches, but with far fewer "candyman" doctors who occasionally pressured, in various ways, into prescribing certain medications and who also have to navigate the complex web of health insurance.

FDA imprisons Amish farmer

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