Ignorance Doesn't Excuse Your Sin Sonny. Off to Hell You Go

Reggie Miller · Feb 22, 2017

psychoslice said:
Still what I said applies.

That's subjective, though.

psychoslice · Feb 22, 2017

Reggie Miller said:
That's subjective, though.

Isn't experiencing the Spirit subjective ?.

Ben Avraham · Feb 23, 2017

Thief said:
if I fail to escape the flesh.....I hope your right but it's not my belief
the will to live is likely to allow each one of us to stand.....in spirit and then ( as written in the book of Job).......we present ourselves to God

You won't, Thief. No one has since the beginning of man on earth. To present oneself to God according to Job is here during our lifetime; not in the afterlife. So, do it now while you can. To make sure you understand what I mean, read Ecclesiastes 9:5,6.

Reggie Miller · Feb 23, 2017

psychoslice said:
Isn't experiencing the Spirit subjective ?.

I suppose it is subjective in that a person might think he is experiencing the Spirit when he is not and vice versa.

Thief · Feb 23, 2017

Ben Avraham said:
You won't, Thief. No one has since the beginning of man on earth. To present oneself to God according to Job is here during our lifetime; not in the afterlife. So, do it now while you can. To make sure you understand what I mean, read Ecclesiastes 9:5,6.

God and His Sons.....seem to be somewhere else
I will be going there
I hope they let me stay

Ben Avraham · Feb 23, 2017

Thief said:
God and His Sons.....seem to be somewhere else I will be going there I hope they let me stay

You hope if they will let you stay! Listen, Thief, if you are indeed speaking seriously, it will take you about 8 months to get a name better than sons and daughters if you read Isaiah 56:1-8, according to Halacha aka Jewish law, but you will be welcomed at the end as a "son of God" just according to exodus 4:22,23 when the Lord said, "Israel is My son." Good luck!

Muffled · Feb 23, 2017

Skwim said:
Nice to see it when people admit their mistakes.

.

I do admit that everyone may not know enough now to avoid hell but I was not mistaken to say that ignorance would not insure them of hell because there is still a possibility for them to be informed before Hell is assigned.

Thief · Feb 23, 2017

Ben Avraham said:
You hope if they will let you stay! Listen, Thief, if you are indeed speaking seriously, it will take you about 8 months to get a name better than sons and daughters if you read Isaiah 56:1-8, according to Halacha aka Jewish law, but you will be welcomed at the end as a "son of God" just according to exodus 4:22,23 when the Lord said, "Israel is My son." Good luck!

the story I got.....God's Favored led the rebellion....
and one third of heaven lost their positions
over an argument concerning something that looks like us

two thirds of heaven lost their brothers over an argument concerning something
that looks like us

heaven might not care
and the fallen want us dead

and you wish for me good luck.....
I will take it!

Thief · Feb 23, 2017

Muffled said:
I do admit that everyone may not know enough now to avoid hell but I was not mistaken to say that ignorance would not insure them of hell because there is still a possibility for them to be informed before Hell is assigned.

and neither is knowledge a saving grace

Muffled · Feb 23, 2017

Jenny Collins said:
The idea of a place of eternal suffering is viscious. A God who is just, loving and merciful would never do that. And the scriptures people use to laim he does, actually mean something else. The God I worship "punishes to the proper degree." That scripture is found somewhere in Jeremiah, about how God dealt with Israel.

Oh most exalted one, I believe you are most generous to tell God what He can do and not do to please you.

I believe you should explicate this since I have no idea about which scriptures you are referring to and why you believe they mean something else.

I believe that means Hell.

Muffled · Feb 23, 2017

Jenny Collins said:
For starters, 2 thessalonians 1:9 says "eternal destruction." That is what fire symbolizes. Will reply to the other scriptures later.

I believe there is nothing in the text that is symbolic and I would be greatly surprised if you thought you could show any. It is slightly metaphoric because our understanding of destruction is not usually the one used in this verse.

Muffled · Feb 23, 2017

Jenny Collins said:
Scripture about cutting hand off is clearly not literal. Hands dont make us stimble and we dont cut them off. It means whatever is a stumbling block we must remove. And what the scripture is supposed to say instead of Hell, is Gehenna which was a garbage dump. Anyway, if you ac ept that it means literal fire, then you must caccept that we should cut our hands off.

I believe "cutting the hands off is hyperbole. Jesus is simply explaining how serious one must be in avoiding sin because the end result is a serious matter.

I don't believe it matters how hell is depicted. If Gehenna is a metaphor for Hell I believe that makes more sense than believing Jesus literally throws people into a burning garbage dump.

I believe this is a non-sequitur. How one interprets one phrase has nothing to do with how one interprets another phrase.

Skwim · Feb 23, 2017

Muffled said:
I do admit that everyone may not know enough now to avoid hell but I was not mistaken to say that ignorance would not insure them of hell because there is still a possibility for them to be informed before Hell is assigned.

Just as there's the possibility that they won't be informed. And, exactly where is the justice for those who've been saddled with honest questions and doubts about the veracity of the sin/salvation operation, have decided it isn't true, and went on with their lives believing so, when compared to the lucky soul who's just died, has met god himself, and has no stake in not believing--the stake being remaining honest to one's self despite the threat of hell. If given the option, I'd prefer not to hear of the sin/salvation operation, live my life unencumbered with questions and doubts, and be asked at the very last moment if I accepted Jesus as my savior, the answer of which would impose no burden on me whatsoever.

Nope, the sin/salvation operation as you imagine it is a flawed one, unless that is, god doesn't give a fart in the wind about compassion and fairness, which truthfully, having read about some of the stuff he did, isn't hard to imagine at all.

.

Thief · Feb 23, 2017

Skwim said:
Just as there's the possibility that they won't be informed. And, exactly where is the justice for those who've been saddled with honest questions and doubts about the veracity of the sin/salvation operation, have decided it isn't true, and went on with their lives believing so, when compared to the lucky soul who's just died, has met god himself, and has no stake in not believing--the stake being remaining honest to one's self despite the threat of hell. If given the option, I'd prefer not to hear of the sin/salvation operation, live my life unencumbered with questions and doubts, and be asked at the very last moment if I accepted Jesus as my savior, the answer of which would impose no burden on me whatsoever.

Nope, the sin/salvation operation as you imagine it is a flawed one, unless that is, god doesn't give a fart in the wind about compassion and fairness, which truthfully, having read about some of the stuff he did, isn't hard to imagine at all.

.

comparison and fairness?.....as in the book of Job?

'have you considered the least of my servants?'

psychoslice · Feb 23, 2017

Reggie Miller said:
I suppose it is subjective in that a person might think he is experiencing the Spirit when he is not and vice versa.

Yes then it can be both, but it doesn't mean it is true.

Reggie Miller · Feb 23, 2017

psychoslice said:
Yes then it can be both, but it doesn't mean it is true.

It does if one really is experiencing the Spirit.

Thief · Feb 23, 2017

psychoslice said:
Yes then it can be both, but it doesn't mean it is true.

have you a truth?....something else?

psychoslice · Feb 23, 2017

Reggie Miller said:
It does if one really is experiencing the Spirit.

The spirit is just a label, we cannot conceptualize what is spirit, so the experience itself is secondary to that which was experienced, so we then say we have experienced what spirit is, and again that is all it is, an experience.

Myself I have had an Enlightenment experienced where I experience that which is beyond the mind body organism, but to tell you what that was, I cannot, the experience I had was secondary to that which was experienced.

psychoslice · Feb 23, 2017

Thief said:
have you a truth?....something else?

Yes i have experienced Truth, but I cannot tell you what it is, because it was an experience in Truth, as soon as I try to conceptualize it, its is no longer the Truth, this is why no religion can hold the truth.

Reggie Miller · Feb 23, 2017

psychoslice said:
The spirit is just a label, we cannot conceptualize what is spirit, so the experience itself is secondary to that which was experienced, so we then say we have experienced what spirit is, and again that is all it is, an experience.

Myself I have had an Enlightenment experienced where I experience that which is beyond the mind body organism, but to tell you what that was, I cannot, the experience I had was secondary to that which was experienced.

Yes, it is subjective in that sense. One can experience the Spirit but one cannot prove it to others.

Ignorance Doesn't Excuse Your Sin Sonny. Off to Hell You Go

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