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angel maturino and the death penalty

robtex

robtex

Veteran Member
Matrurio was exectuted tonight (6/27) in Huntsville Tx.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/06/27/railroad.killer.ap/index.html

If you are not aware of the case you could probably skim these two articles here:
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/resendez/track_1.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_Maturino_Resendiz

Of all the immates on death row Maturino must be the most cetain to have committed the crimes he was convicted of. I for one am 100 % sure he committed the crimes he was convicted of due to mountain of evidence against him.

Hence I thought he would be a great academic topic for a death penatly debate. Should he specifically have been put to death in Texas? Why or why not?
 
kevmicsmi

kevmicsmi

Well-Known Member
robtex said:
Matrurio was exectuted tonight (6/27) in Huntsville Tx.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/06/27/railroad.killer.ap/index.html

If you are not aware of the case you could probably skim these two articles here:
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/resendez/track_1.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_Maturino_Resendiz

Of all the immates on death row Maturino must be the most cetain to have committed the crimes he was convicted of. I for one am 100 % sure he committed the crimes he was convicted of due to mountain of evidence against him.

Hence I thought he would be a great academic topic for a death penatly debate. Should he specifically have been put to death in Texas? Why or why not?
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I think yes, simply because i feel it to be justice, in certain crimes, to lose your right to life.
 
ChrisP

ChrisP

Veteran Member
I would rather see an "Escape from LA" situation, with such people left on an Island together to create their own societies. I realise this is a little "washing your hands clean" of me, but I don't feel right about killing people like this and am glad to live in a country where we haven't done it for 50 years.
 
Ciscokid

Ciscokid

Well-Known Member
I think George Carlin had it right, get an island and put all the hard core criminals there. Get them hopped up on PCP, give them weapons and watch the mayhem. I think it'd be a great success on Pay per view....and I'd watch for sure.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
ChrisP said:
I would rather see an "Escape from LA" situation, with such people left on an Island together to create their own societies. I realise this is a little "washing your hands clean" of me, but I don't feel right about killing people like this and am glad to live in a country where we haven't done it for 50 years.
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Ciscoid said:
I think George Carlin had it right, get an island and put all the hard core criminals there. Get them hopped up on PCP, give them weapons and watch the mayhem. I think it'd be a great success on Pay per view....and I'd watch for sure.
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It's much better to be in a lonely cell with no chance of escape. You know exactly the day and time that the government will take your life for your crimes. After death, they keep you on government property with a number on your grave instead of your name.
 
ChrisP

ChrisP

Veteran Member
angellous_evangellous said:
After death, they keep you on government property with a number on your grave instead of your name.
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*raises eyebrows* Really? Wow.

I'm still in favour of Islands, if only to remove this cause of friction from within societies with capital (capitol?) punishment. Why should we allow people who've already been convicted of something truly heinous to further waste our time and efforts, not to mention the disharmony developed by this policy. My decision is more looking towards what is better for us as a group than what is worse for those being punished.
 
Ciscokid

Ciscokid

Well-Known Member
angellous_evangellous said:
It's much better to be in a lonely cell with no chance of escape. You know exactly the day and time that the government will take your life for your crimes. After death, they keep you on government property with a number on your grave instead of your name.
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A grave is being too generous...I'd grind the dead bodies into a mush and sell it as generic cat food.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
robtex said:
Should he specifically have been put to death in Texas? Why or why not?
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Yes. He killed repeatedly in Texas.

He didn't die soon enough, and unfortunately he can only die once.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
ChrisP said:
*raises eyebrows* Really? Wow.

I'm still in favour of Islands, if only to remove this cause of friction from within societies with capital (capitol?) punishment. Why should we allow people who've already been convicted of something truly heinous to further waste our time and efforts, not to mention the disharmony developed by this policy. My decision is more looking towards what is better for us as a group than what is worse for those being punished.
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Are you seriously for the Islands?

As long as someone is out in the open and alive, there is change of escape. Jails are cheaper and easier to maintain - not to mention more humane.

To be honest, I'm personally more inclined to have these people hanged immediately after their trial and their bodies displayed publically.
 
ChrisP

ChrisP

Veteran Member
angellous_evangellous said:
Are you seriously for the Islands?

As long as someone is out in the open and alive, there is change of escape. Jails are cheaper and easier to maintain - not to mention more humane.

To be honest, I'm personally more inclined to have these people hanged immediately after their trial and their bodies displayed publically.
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Ok, picture this, an island (or group of islands) in the middle of freaking nowhere, very little vegatation, barely any fresh water and a group of men who are there because they are right pricks with an antisocial streak.

Just to make sure they won't get "rescued" each will be tatooed on their eyelids with bright green ink.
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
ChrisP said:
Ok, picture this, an island (or group of islands) in the middle of freaking nowhere, very little vegatation, barely any fresh water and a group of men who are there because they are right pricks with an antisocial streak.

Just to make sure they won't get "rescued" each will be tatooed on their eyelids with bright green ink.
Click to expand...

But they get to see the sun at whim and feel the breeze on their faces! No prison gaurds to tell them when to get up, what to eat, what to do and when. No cold bars, no hard beds.
 
ChrisP

ChrisP

Veteran Member
You're right... just saltwater insanity, starvation, no shelter and having to sleep on your back all night.
 
Green Gaia

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
They are some truly evil people in the world who have done horrible, undefendable things who should never be part of society again.... and yes, they may deserve to die but the system is not perfect and is flawed because it is run by humans, therefore there is room for error and the certainty that an innocent person will be put to death at some point is too great and because of that I cannot support state sponsored killing of people, no matter what they have been convicted of.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
ChrisP said:
You're right... just saltwater insanity, starvation, no shelter and having to sleep on your back all night.
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That's too much for me. They get to see the stars and really, IMO, breathe the air of freedom. Choosing when to get out of bed and what to eat - even if it is little - is too much for me.

Plus, the victim gets to know exactly where the perp is and when they will die. On an Island the perp is still alive - may drown, starve, or be killed by another person out of rage and not cold, controlled justice.
 
robtex

robtex

Veteran Member
Maize said:
They are some truly evil people in the world who have done horrible, undefendable things who should never be part of society again.... and yes, they may deserve to die but the system is not perfect and is flawed because it is run by humans, therefore there is room for error and the certainty that an innocent person will be put to death at some point is too great and because of that I cannot support state sponsored killing of people, no matter what they have been convicted of.
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I am against the death penalty in the USA for the same reason (because I don't know other countries systems well enough I don't have an opinion on them), but I chose this fella, Angel Maturino as a specific debate topic because in his case we our assured he is the killer in the crimes he was tried for. If you read the links and just google him you will see the evidence against him included, dna, confession, retained personal articles from mulitple victims that were recovered, knew details of the crime only the killer and law enforcement knew ect ect.

In this case, and this is certainly against the norm, there is no margin of error to factor in. To be blunt. Maturino committed those crimes. So in this one case, human error, in my mind is not a reason to say he should not be put to death. Having told you this, should he have been killed or spared? Why or why not?
 
Green Gaia

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
robtex said:
So in this one case, human error, in my mind is not a reason to say he should not be put to death. Having told you this, should he have been killed or spared? Why or why not?
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Either we have the death penalty, or we don't. :shrug:
 
kevmicsmi

kevmicsmi

Well-Known Member
Maize said:

Either we have the death penalty, or we don't. :shrug:
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But cant we have a different conviction standard in order to impose the death penalty? Cant we require DNA evidence, or a confession from a sound mind?
 
Green Gaia

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
kevmicsmi said:
But cant we have a different conviction standard in order to impose the death penalty? Cant we require DNA evidence, or a confession from a sound mind?
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I still think it would be subject to human flaw and error.
 
robtex

robtex

Veteran Member
kevmicsmi said:
Rob, what do you think?
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I am slow on the uptake. I need more time to think it through. As of right now before thinking through it I can't think of a reason he should have lived. If you haven't read the links he is quite an interesting fella. I saw an interview on tv with him once. His english was very strong. He may have been one of those intellectual type killers like Edmund Kemper 3rd however, unlike Kemper, he had no desire to teach crimminologists and profilers how to become more skillful at their occupations.

I bring that up as a tangent because if I had stuck Kemper in as the debate on if he should die or not I would argue not because since his captivity he was instrumental in giving law enforcement tremendous insight into motivations and tactics to catch serial killers in the future. Maturino by contrast seemed to have no aspirations to help law enforcement in anyway and was amazing apathic in interviews about his victims.
 
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