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Lack Of Education Leads To Lost Dreams And Low Income For Many Jehovah's Witnesses

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Lack Of Education Leads To Lost Dreams And Low Income For Many Jehovah's Witnesses

Pew Research shows that only 9 percent of Witnesses get undergraduate degrees. That's well below the national average of 30.4 percent and the lowest of any faith group. The likely reason for this trend is the religion's official warnings against college.

Witness leadership declined to speak to NPR for this story, but Anthony Morris III, a member of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses, outlines the organization's policies clearly in a video on the organization's website. The Watchtower Organization discourages higher education for two basic reasons.

First, higher education is spiritually dangerous. In the video, Morris warns parents that "the most intelligent and eloquent professors will be trying to reshape the thinking of your child, and their influence can be tremendous." He goes on to say that continual association with non-believers in an academic setting can "erode thinking and convictions."

Witness leadership also discourages higher education because they believe it's a waste of time. Jehovah's Witnesses have been predicting the end of the world since the religion's founding at the end of the 19th century. By their rationale, time in college would be better spent out on the streets, converting persons to become Witnesses.

Morris makes it very clear that the Watchtower organization doesn't discourage education, but rather secular education.

"If parents and young ones are motivated to pursue divine education," Morris says, "the quest for higher secular education becomes less and less of an issue."

The article, which is well worth reading in it's entirety, is based on interviews with over 100 people who grew up as Jehovah's Witnesses.

Do parents and/or religious leaders have a moral right to limit a child's education in such a way that the child is handicapped when pursuing his or her dreams? Note: I'm not talking about a legal right here, but instead, a moral right.

If you think parents and/or religious leaders have a moral right to limit a child's education, do you also believe the government possesses the same right? If not, why not?
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
I read this article yesterday, was it Hitchens who said, "Religion poisons everything" He wasn't wrong.

It is not just JW's though - look at many Jewish and Islamic schools
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Lack Of Education Leads To Lost Dreams And Low Income For Many Jehovah's Witnesses



The article, which is well worth reading in it's entirety, is based on interviews with over 100 people who grew up as Jehovah's Witnesses.
Sounds very similar to other anti-education religious groups, like ultra-orthodox Jews and Mennonites. I've heard stories of Mennonites who have been shunned because they went to med school; conservative Mennonites often consider any education beyond high school as "worldly" and problematic.

Do parents and/or religious leaders have a moral right to limit a child's education in such a way that the child is handicapped when pursuing his or her dreams? Note: I'm not talking about a legal right here, but instead, a moral right.

If you think parents and/or religious leaders have a moral right to limit a child's education, do you also believe the government possesses the same right? If not, why not?
IMO, religious leaders have absolutely no moral right to limit a child's education. Their only role is to advise the parents (or the child themselves, once they're old enough).
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Altfish, I am a religious person currently in the final months of a scientific degree in one of the world's most prestigious tertiary education institutions. Don't lump everybody in one box.
Indeed. There have been days when I counted a dozen of more doctors at koyil.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
Altfish, I am a religious person currently in the final months of a scientific degree in one of the world's most prestigious tertiary education institutions. Don't lump everybody in one box.
Good for you, I see you are citing your scientific credentials, not your religious ones.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Another thought on this: when a religious group sets up a situation where its members don't have the skills to get a job outside of their religious community, I think we should question just how free the decision is of its adherents to remain in that community.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Where some religious traditions may discourage higher education, others encourage it. As such, generalizations about what "religion" (as if that was a single, identifiable thing) means for education cannot and should not be made.

As for "moral rights," I'm not sure how to comment as I reject the notion of such a thing. There are a wide variety of factors that end up limiting someone's access to education. I don't see these limitations disappearing any time soon. In fact, these obstacles are becoming worse given the rising costs of higher education. I think I was at the tail end of undergraduate students who could finish programs debt-free. Now it's an accepted fact of the game that you have to have big debt to finance higher education. On the whole, I am tremendously more concerned about that issue than some small religious group attempting to discourage pursuit of higher education at all.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
If you think parents and/or religious leaders have a moral right to limit a child's education, do you also believe the government possesses the same right? If not, why not?
No to both, and placing such willful handicaps on your children should be considered something similar to/along the lines of abuse and neglect.
I read this article yesterday, was it Hitchens who said, "Religion poisons everything" He wasn't wrong.

It is not just JW's though - look at many Jewish and Islamic schools
And Evangelical schools.
Where some religious traditions may discourage higher education, others encourage it. As such, generalizations about what "religion" (as if that was a single, identifiable thing) means for education cannot and should not be made.
I do hold Christians responsible for this lumping of religion: it is, after all, they who use terms such as "god" and "religion" as if they have exclusive rights to them.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
To the OP:

I think that parents have a duty to help their children be as well prepared as possible to succeed in life. I'm sure that many religious parents feel as though that means limiting access to the world of knowledge, but that strikes me as a YUGE mistake.

So their are many religious, well-intended, but misguided parents out there.
 

Jeremiahcp

Well-Known Jerk
Lack Of Education Leads To Lost Dreams And Low Income For Many Jehovah's Witnesses



The article, which is well worth reading in it's entirety, is based on interviews with over 100 people who grew up as Jehovah's Witnesses.

Do parents and/or religious leaders have a moral right to limit a child's education in such a way that the child is handicapped when pursuing his or her dreams? Note: I'm not talking about a legal right here, but instead, a moral right.

If you think parents and/or religious leaders have a moral right to limit a child's education, do you also believe the government possesses the same right? If not, why not?

It is basically saying that in order for their children to adopt and believe in their religion they have to isolate them from the world and keep them as stupid as possible. Any religion that depends on being stupid to believe is prob. one we'd be better off without. And it really is a form of oppression.

"If you think parents and/or religious leaders have a moral right to limit a child's education, do you also believe the government possesses the same right? "

A basic level of education should be a protected standard for every child. Not only for the benefit of the child but this is really something that impacts us all. These are the leaders and the work force of the future. It would be nice if they could do basic math.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
I read this article yesterday, was it Hitchens who said, "Religion poisons everything" He wasn't wrong.

It is not just JW's though - look at many Jewish and Islamic schools
Tell that to religious Asian communities (particularly in the West.) If your kid ain't a doctor or lawyer, they're a failure. The meme
cbf00be13ad2ba7797b40dbffbda097f35262282f54fcacd76b790e3a737fea9.jpg

comes to mind. Half the time I was more scared to tell my friends' parents my school results than my actual parents. Who were surprisingly laid back in comparison despite facing (in my mum's case, anyway) heavy societal pressure. The struggle is real.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
It is basically saying that in order for their children to adopt and believe in their religion they have to isolate them from the world and keep them as stupid as possible. Any religion that depends on being stupid to believe is prob. one we'd be better off without. And it really is a form of oppression.

Hmmmm....did no one ever think to ask a JW about this issue instead of getting second hand stories from the disgruntled ones who felt like they were missing out on something wonderful?
297.gif
You'd think that JW's were some sort of anti-education dumbos who want to keep their kids in ignorance. The two leading stories in that article are not the whole story.....by a long shot.

"If you think parents and/or religious leaders have a moral right to limit a child's education, do you also believe the government possesses the same right? "

Do you know the difference between not being "encouraged" to do something and being "forbidden" to do it?
352nmsp.gif


The children of Jehovah's Witnesses are not forced to abandon hopes for a higher education.....it is, after all left to the children when they are of age to make their own decisions about their education and their spiritual choices. Being raised as a JW does not guarantee that the child will choose the same spiritual path as their parents. But at the same time, parents are responsible for educating their children about the ever present dangers that are waiting for them out there in the world.

The reasons why university education is not encouraged is mainly because of the moral and spiritual climate that are common at such schools of higher learning. Can anyone doubt the validity of this statement? For our children, who are raised with high moral standards, the immoral activities that take place on campuses is a real moral danger. The world has lost its moral compass.

As for science being the reason why some might reject God and creation.....I can only think that those are the people who might have rejected him anyway. Many among our brotherhood are educated in different branches of science and medicine, having achieved their degrees before becoming Jehovah's Witnesses. There are also a lot of tradesmen in our ranks, so tertiary education is by no means frowned upon. Online courses are also a good way to gain a degree in a chosen field.

But higher education never leads to happiness when all it does is fuel a desire for a materialistic lifestyle. "Things" never make you happy for long.....it becomes a never ending addiction to transient material pursuits that often leads to serious debt and unhappy relationships. It doesn't guarantee a job either. I know many young people who gained university degrees who still haven't found work in their chosen field. Why do so many people think a higher education is so special?

We prefer the Bible's counsel to be 'content with the present things'....not continually looking for the next fad or fashion or addiction to waste money on. We also prefer the Bible's recommendation to live a simple life.....being materially poor but spiritually rich engenders a sense of satisfaction in life that no material things can equal. We would rather clean offices and windows and have time to serve God, than slaving for a master who can never be satisfied.

A basic level of education should be a protected standard for every child. Not only for the benefit of the child but this is really something that impacts us all. These are the leaders and the work force of the future. It would be nice if they could do basic math.

What makes you think that we don't care about the education of our children? It is the law that they must be educated, so we encourage our children to make the most of their school years and use that knowledge to serve a better 'boss'. The wages he pays can't be matched by any human employer, and he has fringe benefits that most people would die for. ;)

These are the sorts of articles that the gullible swallow because they can't be bothered to find out the actual truth.

Thanks to @SomeRandom for putting some perspective on this topic.
13.gif
 

Jeremiahcp

Well-Known Jerk
Hmmmm....did no one ever think to ask a JW about this issue instead of getting second hand stories from the disgruntled ones who felt like they were missing out on something wonderful?
297.gif
You'd think that JW's were some sort of anti-education dumbos who want to keep their kids in ignorance. The two leading stories in that article are not the whole story.....by a long shot.



Do you know the difference between not being "encouraged" to do something and being "forbidden" to do it?
352nmsp.gif


The children of Jehovah's Witnesses are not forced to abandon hopes for a higher education.....it is, after all left to the children when they are of age to make their own decisions about their education and their spiritual choices. Being raised as a JW does not guarantee that the child will choose the same spiritual path as their parents. But at the same time, parents are responsible for educating their children about the ever present dangers that are waiting for them out there in the world.

The reasons why university education is not encouraged is mainly because of the moral and spiritual climate that are common at such schools of higher learning. Can anyone doubt the validity of this statement? For our children, who are raised with high moral standards, the immoral activities that take place on campuses is a real moral danger. The world has lost its moral compass.

As for science being the reason why some might reject God and creation.....I can only think that those are the people who might have rejected him anyway. Many among our brotherhood are educated in different branches of science and medicine, having achieved their degrees before becoming Jehovah's Witnesses. There are also a lot of tradesmen in our ranks, so tertiary education is by no means frowned upon. Online courses are also a good way to gain a degree in a chosen field.

But higher education never leads to happiness when all it does is fuel a desire for a materialistic lifestyle. "Things" never make you happy for long.....it becomes a never ending addiction to transient material pursuits that often leads to serious debt and unhappy relationships. It doesn't guarantee a job either. I know many young people who gained university degrees who still haven't found work in their chosen field. Why do so many people think a higher education is so special?

We prefer the Bible's counsel to be 'content with the present things'....not continually looking for the next fad or fashion or addiction to waste money on. We also prefer the Bible's recommendation to live a simple life.....being materially poor but spiritually rich engenders a sense of satisfaction in life that no material things can equal. We would rather clean offices and windows and have time to serve God, than slaving for a master who can never be satisfied.



What makes you think that we don't care about the education of our children? It is the law that they must be educated, so we encourage our children to make the most of their school years and use that knowledge to serve a better 'boss'. The wages he pays can't be matched by any human employer, and he has fringe benefits that most people would die for. ;)

These are the sorts of articles that the gullible swallow because they can't be bothered to find out the actual truth.

Thanks to @SomeRandom for putting some perspective on this topic.
13.gif

"These are the sorts of articles that the gullible swallow because they can't be bothered to find out the actual truth."

Kind of like those people that believe the Bible is the truth.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
My experience going to three congregations over ten years and two states was a decided lack of dreaming. All three congregations had such a doom-and-gloom, 'we're just waiting for the world to end', 'the loftiest goal you can become a full time pioneer and meet a weekly quota of door knocking' 'your job is just something you do to make ends met, put worldly passions away' that I wouldn't be surprised to learn depression is higher than average.
And yeah, JW are anti-science when it doesnt conform to doctrine. When I expressed interest in going into paleontology, they actively discouraged it, and told me to make sure I read the 'Life' book (their then go-to book about evolution.) They even had me sit down with an elder over it.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
"These are the sorts of articles that the gullible swallow because they can't be bothered to find out the actual truth."

Kind of like those people that believe the Bible is the truth.

If you say so.....we all have choices about what to believe, don't we?
352nmsp.gif
You choose not to believe and that is your right.
But all choices have consequences, sooner or later. We choose those too....so we can't blame anyone for the outcome of our choices but ourselves.
 

Jeremiahcp

Well-Known Jerk
If you say so.....we all have choices about what to believe, don't we?
352nmsp.gif
You choose not to believe and that is your right.
But all choices have consequences, sooner or later. We choose those too....so we can't blame anyone for the outcome of our choices but ourselves.

I never made a choice not to believe; I never believed in the first place and there has never been a point in my life where I did believe.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
My experience going to three congregations over ten years and two states was a decided lack of dreaming. All three congregations had such a doom-and-gloom, 'we're just waiting for the world to end', 'the loftiest goal you can become a full time pioneer and meet a weekly quota of door knocking' 'your job is just something you do to make ends met, put worldly passions away' that I wouldn't be surprised to learn depression is higher than average.
And yeah, JW are anti-science when it doesnt conform to doctrine. When I expressed interest in going into paleontology, they actively discouraged it, and told me to make sure I read the 'Life' book (their then go-to book about evolution.) They even had me sit down with an elder over it.

And your experience is just that...yours. That does not speak for all JW's....its just another negative story. They are a dime a dozen. When does an "ex" ever say anything good about you?
2mo5pow.gif
 
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