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the Crimes of God
- Thread starter Thief
- Start date
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Probably I can't understand you is because you're stuttering.
If someone blames god, how are they in denial (40)?
Some people honestly do believe in god and are hurt by him. Others don't know what you mean when you tell them they are in denial over a god that doesn't exist.
If god doesn't exist, and you say they are pointing their finger up and blaming god, who are they pointing a finger towards?
Since you can't imagine yourself pointing a finger at god (even though it's a hypothetical question), if you made up a character in your head (not god) and pointed your finger at it in anger because she somehow hurt your fingers, I would ask you the same question, who are you pointing the finger at?
If a child was blaming an imaginary friend (a real imaginary friend, not god) for messing with his sand castle, and you the parent hear this, would you not ask "who are you blaming Johny?" Maybe a child can give an logical answer because children don't over analogize a hypothetical question. Maybe the parent can get a gist of why the child is actually angry and who that child is angry at by addressing his imaginary friend as a real person.
Turn it back to god...
If you cannot answer the question of who you are pointing the finger at (even the answer "no one would be cool as long as it's honest") then how would you expect my to understand why you think people deny god by pointing a finger at him when you don't even know based on the analogy who they are pointing the finger at to begin with?
If you have read all of this actively, thank you.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
"And Israel joined himself unto Baalpeor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel. And the LORD said unto Moses, 'Take all the heads of the people and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.'" (Numbers 25:3-4)Reward and punishment, the twin pillars of justice
You thought the Muslims were bad ?.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
From my perspective, it goes sour whenever we pretend we are dominant. It especially turns bad for non-human animals.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Either way, the point in having this "trial" is to make others away of the true monster that lies within the pages of the Bible, and his name is not Satan, or Lucifer, nor Beelzebub or Belphegor, not Pharaoh or Nebuchadnezzar. The name of the one who commands death and destruction, rape and slavery, is none other than Elohim. This trial is to put him to death via knowledge and critical thinking. And the case is not looking good when even his own followers readily admit that a lot of it was just how it was back then, we didn't know better, and just has no valid excuse or defense.
Personally, I cannot think of anything else that would be of a greater honor and privilege. And how I would delight in seeing the look on his face when it is established that "I am god and have my reasons" is not, logically or legally, a valid defense. His word says that in what you judge it shall be judged against you, and it is time we use even the 10 Commandments of thou shalt not murder and the teachings of Jesus to tear down this illusion and free people from the shackles of ancient dogma.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Exactly! The god of Abraham was the god of those who lived so long ago. Of course we don't find good standards, we find their standards. If their standards are living are just so long ago and we can dismiss them, then it only logically follows that their god is also of a past, primitive, and obsolete approach to divinity.Is it fair to judge the standards of 3,500 years ago with todays standard?
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Yes it does, it is said that God's word never changes, it seems he had some sort of brain transplant when the NT was introduced.Is it fair to judge the standards of 3,500 years ago with todays standard?
roger1440
I do stuff
The whole is greater then the sum of it's parts.
God does not change but His guidance to humanity changes according to the exigencies of time and culture...
To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
Ecclesiastes 3:1-8
Very well
Consider story of Jesus on the cross:
And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God. Luke 23:33-35
Consider the verse from Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 above
Jesus Himself has already freed the people from 'the shackles of ancient dogma' or the time of Elohim of which you speak. That was nearly 2,000 years ago.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Ok then, I think differently
, so each to their own
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
What, really, sort of a sacrifice is it for a god in human form to have not faith but true knowledge of what lies ahead, knowing everything will be better, and it's only going to be a day of suffering and only dead for a weekend.
And, of course, Jesus said nothing of the law is to change, not until the all things have come, and that it is easier to imagine the end of the earth than the end of the law, and anyone who changes it will be counted among the least in Heaven.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
That isn't even a rebuttal.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
This should be an exiting time for the believers.
"The righteous shall rejoice when he sees the vengeance. He shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked." (Psalms 58:10)
"The righteous shall rejoice when he sees the vengeance. He shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked." (Psalms 58:10)
There may be problems with your understanding and assumptions about the 'Divinity' of Christ, His resurrection, and the nature of sacrifice. That's aside He annulled the Mosaic law.
Most of the Laws Moses revealed from God are now obsolete. There were many laws. The Jews still identify 613 laws that we should obey to this day. But Christians do not believe this. Why?
Lets take an example of 'work on the Sabbath'. This is one of the 613 laws is it not? The law was revealed by Yahweh to Moses. Here it is:
" Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people." Exodus 31:14
What happened when a man was found gathering sticks on the Sabbath?
"And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." Numbers 15:32-36
Death for collecting wood! That's a severe penalty would you agree?
Does this law still apply today? How many Christians would agree that it does? Not too many!
So Gods' laws does change in accordance to the exigencies of a particular age. Jesus Himself indicated that the Mosaic Law had become obsolete. What are some of the key verses where Jesus does this?
"And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn. And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him? How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him? And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath" Mark 2:23-27
Jesus also changed the Mosaic law in regards to marriage:
"They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery." Matthew 19:7-9
Of course we all know the story of the woman who committed adultery:
"And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more." John 8:2-11
And then incredibly after demonstrating an approach completely different to Mosaic law, Jesus went on to say:
"Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life." John 8:12
So although Jesus has said:
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."
Matthew 5:17
He clearly meant in regards to the coming of the Christ. By fulfilment He was also referring to the end of the Covenant of Moses and the beginning of the New Covenant. Jeremiah 31:31
Perhaps Jesus had to be careful to avoid being too explicit. If He had emphasized the teaching of superseding Mosaic law too strongly His mission would not have lasted 3 months! The punishment was death if He has said it too clearly. So He went on to say:
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:18-19
Those words are of course filled with spiritual meaning, but they are not about keeping all the laws of Moses as they are part of the Old Covenant.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
If that is true, then why does Jesus say not one not or one tittle shall pass from the law? That even breaking the least of commandments and teaching others shall earn disapproval in heaven?
It isn't clear, because not all has been fulfilled. Jesus gave prophecies of things to come, and not a word of the law is to change until all things have been fulfilled. According the Bible, they have not been fulfilled (nor will they since they did not happen while all the apostles were alive). He explicitly said he did not come to destroy the law. That doesn't mean "You don't have to follow those other ways anymore."
Blackdog22
Well-Known Member
Judge not lest ye be judged
Considering in the end God will judge us all based on our actions then I would say that makes him a perfect target for judgement.... According to his own rules of course
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
These two points should be singled out. Of course not many Christians think that way because we consider it today to be unethical, immoral, and illegal to sell anyone into slavery, let alone your very own children. We expect that children will sometimes be rebellious, but anyone who killed them for it would be hated, regardless the reason.
Christians do not believe in or follow most of the Bible because, simply put, most Christians have far surpassed the Bible in regards to morality. According to "Biblical principal," saying "let us worship other gods" is a mandatory death sentence. But, today, something that many Christians support and agree with, the state protects us and grants us the right to worship "other gods." You'll be hard pressed to find more than a few Christians who think such people should be killed. Many Christians are even against war, retaliation, and the death penalty, things the Bible gives support for in numerous circumstances. Few Christians are concerned about dietary and mixed fabric restrictions because they are just silly (though, granted, some would make sense in a society that knows very little of food sanitation and nothing of bacteria).
If more people objectively read the Bible in its entirety, they should have even at least have a few objections against some things Jesus said. If they find nothing wrong or very little wrong with the Bible, they are being blind by dogma.
There are problems with taking this one verse and interpreting it literally. The main two are:
(1) It doesn't make any sense as the conditions and exigencies of the time of Christ were so different from the time of Moses; and
(2) There are other verses in NT both from the life and teachings of Jesus (including those I have outlined) and the apostles that together strongly suggest another interpretation.
Like the author of Hebrews for example:
"By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear."
Hebrews 8:13
It is true that not all prophecies in the Old Testament were fulfilled, but this was not a prerequisite for Jesus to abrogate the Mosaic Covenant. As 'Son of God' He had the authority from God.
No, but there are prophecies that refer to events long after Christ was crucified.