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The Kingdom of Heaven is within you

godnotgod

Thou art That
People think that the "I" is real? The universe is a hologram, or, a movie and God is the movie projector. We are characters in the movie but because we are in the movie everything is real to us.

When you are asleep, dreaming you are a dragon-slayer, and someone were to ask if you really are a dragon-slayer, you would answer in the affirmative. Asked the same question when you awaken, you would emphatically answer in the negative. The same is true on the 'awakened' level of consciousness: we only think everything to be real, when in reality, it is illusory, however, illusory on a higher level of illusion, in which we verify reality via the five senses. That is called perceptual reality. Transcending perceptual reality into the state of Ultimate Reality, the true awakening, shows us the illusory nature of this world that is just a dream.
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
Semantics is what sustains the riddle in the first place. The properties of the matter altered are the same regardless if there is anyone there to actually perceive it or not. Same with the universe. The properties of the energies involved at any given moment are the same for all those perceiving - even if they perceive them in completely different ways. And yes, my body and mind are all part of the substance being perceived (or not perceived). So what? This changes nothing about my ability to discern what is what when forms of that matter and energy are placed in front of me. To make out the differences in what I am perceiving and make choices as to what is beneficial or detrimental. It makes no difference that I acknowledge that it is all part of the same "universe". That fact will never help me make the correct decision - and at times this process is vital to carrying on in my own version of "perception".

OK for awhile, but will eventually lead to delusive thought and action.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
When you are asleep, dreaming you are a dragon-slayer, and someone were to ask if you really are a dragon-slayer, you would answer in the affirmative. Asked the same question when you awaken, you would emphatically answer in the negative. The same is true on the 'awakened' level of consciousness: we only think everything to be real, when in reality, it is illusory, however, illusory on a higher level of illusion, in which we verify reality via the five senses. That is called perceptual reality. Transcending perceptual reality into the state of Ultimate Reality, the true awakening, shows us the illusory nature of this world that is just a dream.

It is all an illusion, just like in a dream, but, the illusion never stops.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Someone at RF reminded me recently that the Kingdom of Heaven is within

Luke 17:21
King James Bible
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

That is a beautiful reality to meditate on, but what does it mean? When I think of a Kingdom I think of a civilization. Surely it doesn't mean we have a bunch of Angels, structures, and departed souls living within us does it?

Dear pd,
I am thinking that there are at least a dozen parables on the kingdom of heaven in Matthew. They all have the same message from a different perspective. The easiest one is tht you have the "righteous" and the "wicked" (Mt 13:49-50). The "righteous" to enter into the "kingdom of heaven" have to be more "righteous" than the Pharisees (Mt 5:20). The Pharisees could not commit adultery, whereas those entering into the "kingdom of heaven" had already committed adultery by looking at a women with lust (Mt 5:28). That should give you an idea of why the number who walk the "narrow path" (Mt 7:14) is so "few". The kingdom of heaven is Spirit and power, and it is within, and there are "few" that enter into it, and walk the narrow way. Most belong to the "wicked" and are a slave to their sins.
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
The kingdom is at hand, i.e. God's dominion is everywhere, and everyone is subjected to it.
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Some of you still say that God's kingdom is Israel, and that His house was/will be in Jerusalem. But, His kingdom is all there is, and His house has no borders.
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
It is all an illusion, just like in a dream, but, the illusion never stops.

It will stop for you when you awaken from the dream. Your true nature is always subtly prompting you to do so, but maybe you don't notice it because the thinking mind is always assuming the dominant position. This constant chatter from the thinking mind must first be subdued so that the promptings from your true nature can be detected and understood.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
I see all as One, we are all One with the Source, or God if you like that overused word, we as the mind body organism have arisen from the Source, just s the waves on the ocean, they are there and then they are gone, the wave was always the ocean believing itself to be separate from the ocean. So we are also like the wave believing we are separate from the Source, go within and you will experience this Oneness, it has many names,such as, Enlightenment and Awakening, this experience is Heaven within.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Do you suppose that a higher kind of knowledge may be available that is beyond perceptual reality; one that can show you the true state of affairs?
I suppose it could be possible. Has anyone found such a thing? Maybe they are keeping it to themselves? Or maybe... just maybe, there are people who think they have found it, but it really has no actual benefit or practical utility... so that every time they try to share it and advertise for it with others they just get funny looks.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Has anyone found such a thing?
Of course. Why do you think you have so many that speak of this in the world's various religions?

Maybe they are keeping it to themselves?
Or perhaps you are unaware of what is recorded in the various scriptures of the world, such as the Upanishads?

Or maybe... just maybe, there are people who think they have found it, but it really has no actual benefit or practical utility... so that every time they try to share it and advertise for it with others they just get funny looks.
Of course it has real, actual benefits. Those that have realized it more than readily attest to it's practical benefits. I certainly do. It changed my entire life. If someone gives them a "funny look", that says more about the person who can't fathom reality beyond their own limited ideas of it. It's literally "above their heads", and their insistence on their own ideas as being reflective of reality is what blinds them to the terribly obvious. It's not "other" to this world, but it is "other" to so-called "normal" perception of self and other.

Here's a perfect summation of this.

The world is illusory,
Brahman alone is real,
Brahman is the world.


You have to first recognize the illusory nature of our perceptions of reality, then after if it falls away, we see the world as it is.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
You have to first recognize the illusory nature of our perceptions of reality, then after if it falls away, we see the world as it is.

And then... profit!

I honestly don't see an issue with how I see the world... and I have never needed to adopt, wholesale, the beliefs and/or ideas of one particular religion or belief system, etc. As I am exposed to things, I may or may not incorporate or change my understandings or beliefs as I see fit.

I am always skeptical when I hear that someone has spiritual matters, "life outlook" or "meaning to existence" that they seem to feel is better than what I experience or know - especially if it points to the supernatural, where I am constantly told that I am "missing out". I feel I have a pretty good grasp of those life concepts, and I am constantly assimilating new information, thinking on and contemplating things - coming to conclusions, or throwing away ideas and starting from scratch. And in all my time seeking in this way, never have I had need of, nor come across anything I would classify as "supernatural". It does not resonate with me, in fact my intuition points me dead-set in the opposing direction. And there is nothing wrong with that. So forgive me for being skeptical, and not jumping on the supernatural bandwagon. It will likely always appear to me as a waste of time - and I see no need to change.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
It will stop for you when you awaken from the dream. Your true nature is always subtly prompting you to do so, but maybe you don't notice it because the thinking mind is always assuming the dominant position. This constant chatter from the thinking mind must first be subdued so that the promptings from your true nature can be detected and understood.

The illusion will stop when I awaken from the dream? You never awaken from the dream. The landscape changes but it's still illusion until you reach paradise but, even then, it could be argued that you are just in another illusion.

Meditation is fine, to a degree, while you are on the earth. Paradise is not having another thought. Paradise is understanding how the universe really works and accepting it.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
Someone at RF reminded me recently that the Kingdom of Heaven is within


That is a beautiful reality to meditate on, but what does it mean? When I think of a Kingdom I think of a civilization. Surely it doesn't mean we have a bunch of Angels, structures, and departed souls living within us does it?

I find it makes more sense to think of the 'reign' of God, a time of transformation, within.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
And then... profit!
Profit, certainly. But "freedom" is the better word. Once you have that, then everything else become lighter... It's still the same world, still the same science, still the same trees, and friends, and family, but simply held in a much more illumined mind. That's all. Just a change in how you live and perceive, and that results in profit to yourself and the world. Yes.

I honestly don't see an issue with how I see the world...
Then you are where you need to be. If at some point these understandings you hold fail to answer the questions you may find yourself dealing with, then sometimes just another set of answers won't suffice. It's that whole "shift" in how you see the whole and approach the question itself, that starts to impress itself on you at that point, existential questions.

and I have never needed to adopt, wholesale, the beliefs and/or ideas of one particular religion or belief system, etc.
Me neither. Those that do are simply choosing a given tradition as their path, as you do your own in likely embracing science and rationality as the path to enlightenment for you.

As I am exposed to things, I may or may not incorporate or change my understandings or beliefs as I see fit.
Same here.

I am always skeptical when I hear that someone has spiritual matters, "life outlook" or "meaning to existence" that they seem to feel is better than what I experience or know
I wouldn't say it's better for you, if you are getting your needs met with where you are at at the time. For those who were where you are at, and deeper questions impressed them to go further, what they experience is in fact held as "better" by them then where they were at.

- especially if it points to the supernatural
Nothing I have been talking about is supernatural.

where I am constantly told that I am "missing out".
Only you can answer what is lacking in your life. I will say however, that if someone says they have everything figured out, they probably don't.

I feel I have a pretty good grasp of those life concepts, and I am constantly assimilating new information, thinking on and contemplating things - coming to conclusions, or throwing away ideas and starting from scratch.
And all these things we share. What I am talking about lands outside "figuring stuff out". It has to do with "being" itself, of which the mind is only part of that. These are experiential things, not conceptual idea things.

And in all my time seeking in this way, never have I had need of, nor come across anything I would classify as "supernatural".
What people see as "supernatural" is really nothing more than a mythological construct to try to talk about something which seems beyond themselves. As I said before, "Brahman is the world". That's not supernatural, but it definitely is spiritual. The spiritual is natural. Don't confuse metaphors as descriptors of reality. The spiritual is the condition of being. It's not supernatural.

It does not resonate with me, in fact my intuition points me dead-set in the opposing direction.
I tend to think that's because you likely conceptualize it in these mythological terms, "spirit" is some disembodied ghost; God is "guy in the sky", etc. Yes, my intuition points me away from that too. Just because some may envision God as Sky Parent, does not mean I need to understand it that way.

And there is nothing wrong with that. So forgive me for being skeptical, and not jumping on the supernatural bandwagon.
No need to apologize. I'm not jumping on that either! :)

It will likely always appear to me as a waste of time - and I see no need to change.
I would say you see no need to change to adopt that system of belief. That doesn't mean your internal questions aren't seeking to reach beyond to where you haven't come yet. We all do that.
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
I suppose it could be possible. Has anyone found such a thing? Maybe they are keeping it to themselves? Or maybe... just maybe, there are people who think they have found it, but it really has no actual benefit or practical utility... so that every time they try to share it and advertise for it with others they just get funny looks.

Yes, that is the case indeed. The Third Level of Consciousness*, that of Identification, AKA 'Waking Sleep', is a most convincing state of awareness, due to perceptual reality. During the second level, we do not know we are dreaming, and think this to be reality. Only upon awakening to the third level do we realize the illusory nature of the dream, as it vanishes. But the third level is another dream state yet, only realized as such upon yet a further awakening, but which does not vanish upon detection. Via sensory perception and its extensions, we 'verify' the 'authenticity' of this state. Basically, the Buddha saw that the third level of life is suffering, and the end to suffering was awakening to a higher level and beyond. This has been verified by practitioners independently of one another at different times in history, with consistent results when the experience is complete. IOW, they have awakened into the state of true Reality from the dream of Identification, in which 'I' and the phenomenal world it lives in seem real. For one thing, the higher levels do not involve thinking, but direct seeing into the nature of Reality, so errors in Logic, Reason, and Analysis are absent. People asleep and living on the third level do everything possible to keep other sleeping people from waking up via various reinforcements, ie propaganda, advertising, morals, etc.

I think if you look closely, you will find the five senses very limited and many times faulty. Even science has been found incorrect many times, but even when correct, has serious limitations, especially in the exploration of space. Therefore, the mystic puts perceptual reality aside and seeks higher ground, called Ultimate Reality. Perceptual reality tells us how things behave so we can make predictions; Ultimate Reality tells us what the true nature of Reality actually is.


*First Level: Sleep without dreams
Second Level: Sleep with dreams
Third Level: Waking Sleep; Identification
Fourth Level: Self-Transcendence: The Observer
Fifth Level: Cosmic Consciousness

Source: The Master Game, by Robert deRopp
 
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godnotgod

Thou art That
The illusion will stop when I awaken from the dream? You never awaken from the dream. The landscape changes but it's still illusion until you reach paradise but, even then, it could be argued that you are just in another illusion.

Meditation is fine, to a degree, while you are on the earth. Paradise is not having another thought. Paradise is understanding how the universe really works and accepting it.

So are you saying that Paradise is not on this earth?

If you know something to be illusory, then that by which you know it must therefore be non-illusory, by definition. What is the nature of that state of awareness? What I am saying is that, if illusion exists, then the state of non-illusion must also exist, and that there is a way of knowing the difference with certitude.
 
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godnotgod

Thou art That
Or maybe... just maybe, there are people who think they have found it.....

One of the metaphors for those who have found it is in Plato's Cave Allegory, in which one of the prisoners escapes from the cave of shadows and appearances to go topside and see the Sun for the first time.
 
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