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The Spirit that Raised Jesus

Thief

Rogue Theologian
ALL of Jesus' resurrections were back to healthy physical life, Not zombie life.
Starting from the day of Jesus' resurrecting his friend, his enemies plotted to kill his friend - John 11:53; John 12:10
Since there is No mention of friend Lazarus at Jesus' death, apparently they already succeeded in murdering him.
That does Not take away from a future physical resurrection hope - John 3:13
That is why the ' future tense ' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....
Going to happen, to me, during Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth.
Lazarus will once again have a perfectly healthy physical resurrection at that time, with the opportunity to live forever on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.

My post had nothing to do with mainstream belief

I look upon the resurrection of Lazarus as if I might witness
as if I would be there

as for resurrection for eternity.....
that much is dealt in spirit

God is Spirit
the sons of God are spirit
the kingdom is NOT of this world
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
My post had nothing to do with mainstream belief
I look upon the resurrection of Lazarus as if I might witness
as if I would be there
as for resurrection for eternity.....
that much is dealt in spirit
God is Spirit
the sons of God are spirit
the kingdom is NOT of this world

I agree with you about God is a spirit, and so are angels, and so will be the saints or holy ones of Daniel 7.
That is because the kingdom of God is NOT of this world ( of badness ).
So, to me, the kingdom's location is heavenly. Christ governs from heaven - Ephesians 5:23
Although governing from the heavens, Jesus requested that we pray for the kingdom to come (thy kingdom come).
Jesus did Not instruct us to pray to be 'taken up' to the kingdom, nor pray to be 'taken away' to the kingdom.
Rather, pray for the kingdom to come, and God's purpose (will) be done here on Earth as in Heaven.
In Heaven there is: No war, No crime, No violence, No pollution, No sickness and No death in Heaven.
So, we are praying for those same wonderful good conditions to come to Earth as they exist in Heaven.
Jesus, as King (President) of God's kingdom government, will eradicate evil and enemy death on Earth.
- 1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8; Isaiah 33:24
So, people like Lazarus - John 3:13 - can be part of the humble meek to inherit the Earth - Psalms 37:10-11
To me, you can be there (here) to see Lazarus resurrected a second time, but this time a permanent resurrection restored back to physical life on Earth, with the opportunity to never die again, and live forever (everlasting life) on a beautiful paradisical Earth as Isaiah chapter 35 describes Earth for us under Christ as king of God's Kingdom.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I agree with you about God is a spirit, and so are angels, and so will be the saints or holy ones of Daniel 7.
That is because the kingdom of God is NOT of this world ( of badness ).
So, to me, the kingdom's location is heavenly. Christ governs from heaven - Ephesians 5:23
Although governing from the heavens, Jesus requested that we pray for the kingdom to come (thy kingdom come).
Jesus did Not instruct us to pray to be 'taken up' to the kingdom, nor pray to be 'taken away' to the kingdom.
Rather, pray for the kingdom to come, and God's purpose (will) be done here on Earth as in Heaven.
In Heaven there is: No war, No crime, No violence, No pollution, No sickness and No death in Heaven.
So, we are praying for those same wonderful good conditions to come to Earth as they exist in Heaven.
Jesus, as King (President) of God's kingdom government, will eradicate evil and enemy death on Earth.
- 1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8; Isaiah 33:24
So, people like Lazarus - John 3:13 - can be part of the humble meek to inherit the Earth - Psalms 37:10-11
To me, you can be there (here) to see Lazarus resurrected a second time, but this time a permanent resurrection restored back to physical life on Earth, with the opportunity to never die again, and live forever (everlasting life) on a beautiful paradisical Earth as Isaiah chapter 35 describes Earth for us under Christ as king of God's Kingdom.
I saw a cartoon about the....meek inheriting the earth....

imagine a planet of people (even if the numbers are great)
and no one dies

after centuries of living here, with the same people
would you not desire something greater?

you write as if heaven and earth are two separate places
I would agree

but we could stand side by side and there could be a great divide between us
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I saw a cartoon about the....meek inheriting the earth....
imagine a planet of people (even if the numbers are great)
and no one dies
after centuries of living here, with the same people
would you not desire something greater?
you write as if heaven and earth are two separate places
I would agree
but we could stand side by side and there could be a great divide between us

First, (the prime directive) of Genesis 1:28 was for people to ' fill ' (populate) the Earth.
In other words, we are Not to overfill or overpopulate the Earth.
So, God's purpose ( will ) for the Earth was to have Earth populated with healthy people who would live forever.
Reproduction would cease at that time frame.
There would be No ' great divide ' because mankind would be under one God.
The wicked will be gone forever - Psalms 92:7
Since we will never stop learning we can always increase in knowledge.
I never tire of my favorite foods, and I never tire of seeing loved ones.
So, I can't see why that would ever come to an end.
Plus, just think a ' forever ' gives plenty of time to get to know and visit everyone on Earth.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
First, (the prime directive) of Genesis 1:28 was for people to ' fill ' (populate) the Earth.
In other words, we are Not to overfill or overpopulate the Earth.
So, God's purpose ( will ) for the Earth was to have Earth populated with healthy people who would live forever.
Reproduction would cease at that time frame.
There would be No ' great divide ' because mankind would be under one God.
The wicked will be gone forever - Psalms 92:7
Since we will never stop learning we can always increase in knowledge.
I never tire of my favorite foods, and I never tire of seeing loved ones.
So, I can't see why that would ever come to an end.
Plus, just think a ' forever ' gives plenty of time to get to know and visit everyone on Earth.
if I spend a year with each one of us now living
I would be busy for the next 7billion years

in the next life...I hope to be VERY busy

as for that great divide....see the parable Lazarus and the Rich man
note the proximity of the Rich man to the angel
even as the Rich man pleads for relief
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
No, the Bible teaches that God resurrected Jesus. "God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses." (Acts 2:32) It is clear to me that Jesus was raised from the dead by God, giving the lie to the trinity doctrine.
Exactly. It is so simple, isn't it?!
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
I agree with you about God is a spirit, and so are angels, and so will be the saints or holy ones of Daniel 7.
That is because the kingdom of God is NOT of this world ( of badness ).
So, to me, the kingdom's location is heavenly. Christ governs from heaven - Ephesians 5:23
Although governing from the heavens, Jesus requested that we pray for the kingdom to come (thy kingdom come).
Jesus did Not instruct us to pray to be 'taken up' to the kingdom, nor pray to be 'taken away' to the kingdom.
Rather, pray for the kingdom to come, and God's purpose (will) be done here on Earth as in Heaven.
In Heaven there is: No war, No crime, No violence, No pollution, No sickness and No death in Heaven.
So, we are praying for those same wonderful good conditions to come to Earth as they exist in Heaven.
Jesus, as King (President) of God's kingdom government, will eradicate evil and enemy death on Earth.
- 1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8; Isaiah 33:24
So, people like Lazarus - John 3:13 - can be part of the humble meek to inherit the Earth - Psalms 37:10-11
To me, you can be there (here) to see Lazarus resurrected a second time, but this time a permanent resurrection restored back to physical life on Earth, with the opportunity to never die again, and live forever (everlasting life) on a beautiful paradisical Earth as Isaiah chapter 35 describes Earth for us under Christ as king of God's Kingdom.
Great post! But keep in mind, Lazarus being a disciple of Jesus, was probably part of the 120 at Pentecost 33CE. (If not then, soon after.) He no doubt became anointed, so he's probably one with a heavenly hope, i.e., taking part in the "earlier resurrection", like Paul spoke of.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
if I spend a year with each one of us now living
I would be busy for the next 7billion years
in the next life...I hope to be VERY busy
as for that great divide....see the parable Lazarus and the Rich man
note the proximity of the Rich man to the angel
even as the Rich man pleads for relief

Just as the 'rich man' was Not a real person described at Luke 16:1, the rich man of Luke 16:19 is also Not real.
Jesus would only speak to the crowds in illustrative word pictures (parables) - Matthew 13:34.

Those hate-filled Pharisees of Luke 16:14 were the money-loving covetous rich man of verse 19 - Matthew 23:5-7.
So, that ' great divide ' (Luke 16:25-26) was now showing that there was a great chasm taking place between positions, or a reversing of positions, between those haughty-proud religious leaders and the humble-meek Lazarus class of people who accept Jesus' refreshing ' yoke ', and being fed 'proper spiritual food' from Jesus.
That ' great (spiritual) divide ' would become even more evident at Pentecost when God now set up a ' spiritual Israel ' to replace fleshly natural Israel - Galatians 4:26; Hebrews 8:7-13; Romans 10:4; Colossians 2:14; Jeremiah 31:31-33
The pouring out of God's spirit at Pentecost made it clear which side of the ' divide ' God was now blessing, and would keep on blessing with His favor.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Great post! But keep in mind, Lazarus being a disciple of Jesus, was probably part of the 120 at Pentecost 33CE. (If not then, soon after.) He no doubt became anointed, so he's probably one with a heavenly hope, i.e., taking part in the "earlier resurrection", like Paul spoke of.

Very interesting thoughts ^ above ^. Besides being anointed at his (Lazarus) baptism, just as John the Baptizer died before Jesus died, Lazarus, like John, would Not have a heavenly resurrection - Matthew 11:11.
Not resurrected to heaven because there is great indication that Lazarus died a second time - Luke 11:53; Luke 12:10
So, since there is No mention of Lazarus at Jesus' death, that could indicate the religious leaders succeeded in killing Lazarus 'before' Jesus' died whose death then opened up the way to heaven -> John 3:13.

Even as All the faithful ones of Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:39 did Not see the fulfillment of God's promise (Genesis 12:3; 22:18) but they will have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to life on Earth - Acts 24:15.
Lazarus, like John, could gain the position of being ' princes ' on Earth -> Psalms 45:16; Isaiah 32:1; Ezekiel 34:24
So, even if Not part of the first or earlier resurrection (Revelation 20:6) they will be very,very blessed and rewarded.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Just as the 'rich man' was Not a real person described at Luke 16:1, the rich man of Luke 16:19 is also Not real.
Jesus would only speak to the crowds in illustrative word pictures (parables) - Matthew 13:34.

Those hate-filled Pharisees of Luke 16:14 were the money-loving covetous rich man of verse 19 - Matthew 23:5-7.
So, that ' great divide ' (Luke 16:25-26) was now showing that there was a great chasm taking place between positions, or a reversing of positions, between those haughty-proud religious leaders and the humble-meek Lazarus class of people who accept Jesus' refreshing ' yoke ', and being fed 'proper spiritual food' from Jesus.
That ' great (spiritual) divide ' would become even more evident at Pentecost when God now set up a ' spiritual Israel ' to replace fleshly natural Israel - Galatians 4:26; Hebrews 8:7-13; Romans 10:4; Colossians 2:14; Jeremiah 31:31-33
The pouring out of God's spirit at Pentecost made it clear which side of the ' divide ' God was now blessing, and would keep on blessing with His favor.
the parables speak what is true....
I believe we might stand with heaven ....and yet there might be a great divide
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
the parables speak what is true....
I believe we might stand with heaven ....and yet there might be a great divide

To me, absolutely those called to heaven such as those of Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18 (saints or holy ones) will be resurrected to heaven. They have that first or earlier resurrection mentioned at Revelation 20:6.
But, as for the majority of people - John 3:13 - they will have a future happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to life on Earth as King David will have - Acts of the Apostles 2:34; Acts of the Apostles 24:15

Those in heaven serve with Jesus as kings and priests according to Revelation 5:9-10
No divide there, just having two (2) jobs to do serving mankind on Earth as kings taking care of governmental duties.
Serving as priests to take care of spiritual responsibilities for mankind living forever on Earth.
In other words, caring for earthly subjects of God's kingdom government.
- Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14; Matthew 5:5

So, to me, the only ' divide ', so to speak, will be that some people will live forever in heaven, the rest of us will live forever on a beautiful paradisical Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
To me, absolutely those called to heaven such as those of Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18 (saints or holy ones) will be resurrected to heaven. They have that first or earlier resurrection mentioned at Revelation 20:6.
But, as for the majority of people - John 3:13 - they will have a future happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to life on Earth as King David will have - Acts of the Apostles 2:34; Acts of the Apostles 24:15

Those in heaven serve with Jesus as kings and priests according to Revelation 5:9-10
No divide there, just having two (2) jobs to do serving mankind on Earth as kings taking care of governmental duties.
Serving as priests to take care of spiritual responsibilities for mankind living forever on Earth.
In other words, caring for earthly subjects of God's kingdom government.
- Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14; Matthew 5:5

So, to me, the only ' divide ', so to speak, will be that some people will live forever in heaven, the rest of us will live forever on a beautiful paradisical Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
I don't read Genesis as a paradise for Adam and Eve

it was a petri dish
used to make a needed alteration in the species of Man

once the alteration took hold....the chosen specimen and his cloned mate
were released back into the environment

Man was never meant to live forever in this world

and we won't
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Man was never meant to live forever in this world

and we won't

You might find interest in these Scriptures: Psalms 37:29; Isaiah 45:18; Revelation 21:3-4 ("the tent of God is with mankind....and death will be no more"). There are more to consider.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
You might find interest in these Scriptures: Psalms 37:29; Isaiah 45:18; Revelation 21:3-4 ("the tent of God is with mankind....and death will be no more"). There are more to consider.
I believe God is spirit
the Sons of God are spirit

and the kingdom is not of this earth
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Didn't Jesus raise himself?


Doesn't the Son of Man raise all, like the serpent in the desert?


Roman 8:11
And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

I believe there is one Spirit and that is God. Jesus no longer exists as a person after His death so He can't raise anyone. I believe that is the point that Paul is making that Jesus was not raised by a physical man but by God.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
  • God the Father raised Jesus (Acts 2:24, 32; 3:15, 26; 4:10; 5:30; 10:40; 13:30, 33, 34, 37).
  • God raised Him up again (Rom. 4:24; 6:4[through the glory of the Father]); 10:9; 1 Cor. 6:14; Gal. 1:1; Col. 2:12).
  • The Holy Spirit is somehow involved in the resurrection of Jesus:
    Romans 8:11 “But if the Spirit of Him who raised…”
    Romans 1:4 “who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,…”
  • The Son Himself lays down His life and takes it up again — John 10:17-18

I believe none of the passages refers to God the Father but simply to God. God the Father is only a concept while Jesus is living as also God the son.

I believe God is a Spirit and the correct term for "the Holy Spirit" is the Paraclete. Paraclete is not used in this verse so it is referring to God. Rom1:4 is not talking about the Spirit doing the raising.


I believe one must remember that Jesus speaks as God and does not necessarily mean that He will be alive to raise Himself from the dead or that a dead person can raise the dead.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
The spirit of the Father. That is what is sometimes called the "Holy Spirit". But this shows that this "Holy Spirit" is not a third "person in some imagined trinity but is the spirit or power of the Father. This spirit of the Father can also join with a human spirit in a person to create a new creature.

I believe it does not show that. One does not need imagination when one has evidence.

I believe that is the case if one thinks of the Father as the OT construct for God but not as Jesus conceives Him.

I believe this is called the Paraclete the third member of the Trinity sometimes erroneously referred to as the Holy Spirit except that it is the Spirit of God within a person in a new life.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
I believe God is spirit
the Sons of God are spirit

and the kingdom is not of this earth
I agree, almost completely. The only difference is regarding Adam, he is called 'son of God', but he was human. All other sons are spirit...and I also agree that God's Kingdom is not of this Earth, it's heavenly. It's benefits, though, will be experienced here on Earth. The Bible discusses all these things.

Have a good day, my cousin.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Yes, the Bible discusses these things and it says Jesus is coming back to earth to rule over God's kingdom. There is nothing about anyone going to heaven.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I believe God is spirit
the Sons of God are spirit
and the kingdom is not of this earth

Those resurrected to heaven - Luke 22:28-30 - are spirit sons, the saints or holy ones referenced at Daniel 7:18.
That does Not mean there will Not be earthly physical sons, as Adam was an earthly son - Luke 3:38
Adam did Not come from heaven, Adam did Not go to heaven but simply returned to dust - Genesis 3:19
To me, a person can Not 'return' to a place he never was before. Adam went back to where he started: dust.

I agree with you that the kingdom (God's kingdom of a thousand years) is Not of this earth - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26
Being Not of this earth does Not mean it can Not govern over earth.
As Jesus is head of the Christian congregation today, and Jesus is Not here on earth but his governing power is.
Jesus, as king of God's kingdom, will govern from heaven over earth - Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14
Jesus will have earthly subjects or citizens on earth from sea to sea as he governs from the heavens.
 
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