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Toying with the Truth

GCVP

New Member
It's My Birthday!
With all the current hype about 'quantum entanglement', Bell's Theorem, quantum computing, wavefunction collapse, Einstein being disproved on at least one count and so on -

With all due respect to science and scientists (I teach it, incidentally),

I couldn't help but notice that science has exposed a fundamental truth in nature revealed as early as in Chapter 1 of Genesis.

And that is how God's Word instantaneously executes his commands. (By instantaneous I wish to say - faster than any known physical process operating in the physical universe. We cannot transport matter or communicate by sending signals faster than than the speed of light. But apparently quantum 'detanglement' is faster than that.)

Let me clarify.

Genesis 1:2 "Now the Earth was without form" - inchoate state of quantum entanglement

Now just one example of an "assume this form" command:

Gen 1:24 "And God said - 'Let the land produce living creatures...'" - issuance of command

Gen 1:24ff "...And it was so." - instantaneous execution of God's command - corresponding to instantaneous wavefunction collapse and resolution of quantum entangled state - what Roger Hanson's ingenious 2015 Delft TU experiment observed, thus proving John Bell's 1964 theorem.

What I wish to say is this is not fantasy - what scientists observed was with electrons but it can be scaled up to any amount or type of matter - the mechanism whereby God can give form to an entire universe instantaneously already exists in the universe! This is what science has discovered. Science's new toy is nothing less than an ancient property of the universe set in place when God spoke and the inchoate formless universe assumed form.

"Hamlet: There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies." - William Shakespeare
 
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fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
With all the current hype about 'quantum entanglement', Bell's Theorem, quantum computing, wavefunction collapse, Einstein being disproved on at least one count and so on -

With all due respect to science and scientists (I teach it, incidentally),

I couldn't help but notice that science has exposed a fundamental truth in nature revealed as early as in Chapter 1 of Genesis.

And that is how God's Word instantaneously executes God's intention.

Let me clarify.

Genesis 1:2 "Now the Earth was without form" - inchoate state of quantum entanglement

Gen 1:14 "And God said - 'Let there be lights in the heavens...'" - issuance of command

Gen 1:15 And it was so. - instantaneous execution of God's command - corresponding to instantaneous wavefunction collapse and resolution of quantum entangled state - what Delft TU experiment observed.

What I wish to say is this is not fantasy - what scientists observed was with electrons but it can be scaled up to any amount or type of matter - the mechsnism whereby God can create an entire universe in a few days exists in the universe! This is what science has discovered. Science's new toy is nothing less than an ancient property of the universe set in place when God spoke and the inchoate formless universe assumed form.
The word "instantaneous" does not appear in Gen 1. You are reading that into it.
 

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
With all the current hype about 'quantum entanglement', Bell's Theorem, quantum computing, wavefunction collapse, Einstein being disproved on at least one count and so on -

With all due respect to science and scientists (I teach it, incidentally),

I couldn't help but notice that science has exposed a fundamental truth in nature revealed as early as in Chapter 1 of Genesis.

And that is how God's Word instantaneously executes his commands. (By instantaneous I wish to say - faster than any known physical process operating in the physical universe. We cannot transport matter or communicate by sending signals faster than than the speed of light. But apparently quantum 'detanglement' is faster than that.)

Let me clarify.

Genesis 1:2 "Now the Earth was without form" - inchoate state of quantum entanglement

Now just one example of an "assume this form" command:

Gen 1:24 "And God said - 'Let the land produce living creatures...'" - issuance of command

Gen 1:24ff "...And it was so." - instantaneous execution of God's command - corresponding to instantaneous wavefunction collapse and resolution of quantum entangled state - what Roger Hanson's ingenious 2015 Delft TU experiment observed, thus proving John Bell's 1964 theorem.

What I wish to say is this is not fantasy - what scientists observed was with electrons but it can be scaled up to any amount or type of matter - the mechanism whereby God can give form to an entire universe instantaneously already exists in the universe! This is what science has discovered. Science's new toy is nothing less than an ancient property of the universe set in place when God spoke and the inchoate formless universe assumed form.

"Hamlet: There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies." - William Shakespeare

'Nature is the executor of God's laws' : Galileo
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Let me clarify.

Genesis 1:2 "Now the Earth was without form" - inchoate state of quantum entanglement
The Egyptians are the ones who are first recorded to believe that the world begins as chaos. After them everyone else appears to follow suit ('Follow suit' is a card playing phrase).
Now just one example of an "assume this form" command:

Gen 1:24 "And God said - 'Let the land produce living creatures...'" - issuance of command

Gen 1:24ff "...And it was so." - instantaneous execution of God's command - corresponding to instantaneous wavefunction collapse and resolution of quantum entangled state - what Roger Hanson's ingenious 2015 Delft TU experiment observed, thus proving John Bell's 1964 theorem.
This idea appears very early on, also previous to Genesis. The pre-socratic philosopher Heraclitus posits that the essence of the universe is 'Change' (which today we would call chaotic energy). Its really a though out guess based upon observation, and quantum physics isn't necessary to derive it. He invents the term 'Logos' which is used in the Gospel of John to describe Jesus ministry. For Heraclitus, chaos is the essence of the universe while logos gives form to that chaos. Therefore Genesis does not originate the concept although it may borrow it.

What I wish to say is this is not fantasy - what scientists observed was with electrons but it can be scaled up to any amount or type of matter - the mechanism whereby God can give form to an entire universe instantaneously already exists in the universe! This is what science has discovered. Science's new toy is nothing less than an ancient property of the universe set in place when God spoke and the inchoate formless universe assumed form.
Proving the existence of God is counter to the concept of God, since God is invisible. If you can provide a means to observe God then you are debunking God. The account in Genesis is similar (quite similar) to an account found in very ancient Egyptian documents, albeit the gods are vanquished from the story in Genesis or successfully opposed by Adam and Eve.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
...

With all due respect to science and scientists (I teach it, incidentally),

I couldn't help but notice that science has exposed a fundamental truth in nature revealed as early as in Chapter 1 of Genesis.

And that is how God's Word instantaneously executes his commands. (By instantaneous I wish to say - faster than any known physical process operating in the physical universe. We cannot transport matter or communicate by sending signals faster than than the speed of light. But apparently quantum 'detanglement' is faster than that.)...

You teach science?

You lost most of us when you started with a God.

*
 

GCVP

New Member
It's My Birthday!
I think many try in vain to make the words in Genesis sound as if its scientific, and some through arrogance even try to make it sound better than science, but all in vain.
Thank you, I would have to agree with you on that.
There are lots of things that science cannot prove nor can ever prove about reality, and so I'd have to say that science does not have absolute bragging rights about what reality is.
This experiment proved just that (please, read about the experiment first before challenging that apparently 'self referential' statement!) I'm sorry, I'm unable to upload the links, but there are several good articles about this topic out there - please refer to 'Delft test of Bells theorem', for example. Also, you might be interested to know that science cannot predict the weather - please refer to 'chaos theory and the Butterfly Effect' for example. Thanks for providing a very true insight!
 

allfoak

Alchemist
With all the current hype about 'quantum entanglement', Bell's Theorem, quantum computing, wavefunction collapse, Einstein being disproved on at least one count and so on -

With all due respect to science and scientists (I teach it, incidentally),

I couldn't help but notice that science has exposed a fundamental truth in nature revealed as early as in Chapter 1 of Genesis.

And that is how God's Word instantaneously executes his commands. (By instantaneous I wish to say - faster than any known physical process operating in the physical universe. We cannot transport matter or communicate by sending signals faster than than the speed of light. But apparently quantum 'detanglement' is faster than that.)

Let me clarify.

Genesis 1:2 "Now the Earth was without form" - inchoate state of quantum entanglement

Now just one example of an "assume this form" command:

Gen 1:24 "And God said - 'Let the land produce living creatures...'" - issuance of command

Gen 1:24ff "...And it was so." - instantaneous execution of God's command - corresponding to instantaneous wavefunction collapse and resolution of quantum entangled state - what Roger Hanson's ingenious 2015 Delft TU experiment observed, thus proving John Bell's 1964 theorem.

What I wish to say is this is not fantasy - what scientists observed was with electrons but it can be scaled up to any amount or type of matter - the mechanism whereby God can give form to an entire universe instantaneously already exists in the universe! This is what science has discovered. Science's new toy is nothing less than an ancient property of the universe set in place when God spoke and the inchoate formless universe assumed form.

"Hamlet: There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies." - William Shakespeare
I have been saying these things for years , just not to loud cause I wish to stay out of the Looney bin.
There are those who would like to have me silenced here in my community because I am a very loud advocate for the homeless . I help with everything including court cases they may have.
They are all aware of my views on God and religion.
In fact I have used the Bible to argue court cases.
What i do is not well liked but they can't stop me.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Thank you, I would have to agree with you on that.
There are lots of things that science cannot prove nor can ever prove about reality, and so I'd have to say that science does not have absolute bragging rights about what reality is.
This experiment proved just that (please, read about the experiment first before challenging that apparently 'self referential' statement!) I'm sorry, I'm unable to upload the links, but there are several good articles about this topic out there - please refer to 'Delft test of Bells theorem', for example. Also, you might be interested to know that science cannot predict the weather - please refer to 'chaos theory and the Butterfly Effect' for example. Thanks for providing a very true insight!
Thanks, yes scientist never have said they know everything, they admit that, but many religious thinking and believing people will not admit that they don't know, this was my point.
 

GCVP

New Member
It's My Birthday!
Thanks, yes scientist never have said they know everything, they admit that, but many religious thinking and believing people will not admit that they don't know, this was my point.
Yes! Good one! I'd have to agree with you on that too. I know quite a few people like that. Can't discuss anything with them in a 'reasonable' way, you know?

But in a way, they are right. They have genuine 'faith', and they fully believe, even without proof. They are not stubborn fools - the source of their conviction is from something outside this universe of cause-and-effect, beyond human experience. Simply, to save myself from using onerous and repetetive words I'd have to say that they have experienced God. The rest of us are quite pathetic compared with them - perhaps myself included? But I too had such an experience years ago.

The reason I started this thread was for those with even a trace of scientific knowledge out there, not sure that God is real, to perhaps get the hint that God is real. You see, I know that type of topic is sure to garner controversy on a religious forum - but not in the least on a scientific one. It would be deleted outright.
 

GCVP

New Member
It's My Birthday!
Yeah, it took six days and God was tired by the end of it.

Hindu scriptures also say the same thing: "Eko'ham Bahusyami" (Alone am I, I will be many).
ps - but that is not the only thing they say. ;)
Thanks - I have almost nil knowledge of the Hindu scriptures but I find the correlation most fascinating. Thanks for your post.
 

GCVP

New Member
It's My Birthday!
I have been saying these things for years , just not to loud cause I wish to stay out of the Looney bin.
There are those who would like to have me silenced here in my community because I am a very loud advocate for the homeless . I help with everything including court cases they may have.
They are all aware of my views on God and religion.
In fact I have used the Bible to argue court cases.
What i do is not well liked but they can't stop me.


Thanks for your post.

You know, recently I wrote an article. (It's as of yet unpublished). But in it, I brought attention to what the correct goal of science should be. And you know - there was a recent debate in the scientific community about what 'scientific literacy' should be defined as (sorry, I cannot post the link right now). Apparently - a person must have two qualities to be considered as 'scientifically literate'. One - they must have a true appreciation of science and the scientific enterprise. Two - they must be interested in seeing science used for humanitarian purposes.

Your post has addressed a very important point. Many are more interested in seeing science applied ad infinitum to increasing scientific knowledge, or controlling nature, or to acquire profit - and in doing so have completely forgotten about the great potential it has to make the world a better place to live in, for those in genuine need. Thanks for your great post.
 

GCVP

New Member
It's My Birthday!
The Egyptians are the ones who are first recorded to believe that the world begins as chaos. After them everyone else appears to follow suit ('Follow suit' is a card playing phrase).

This idea appears very early on, also previous to Genesis. The pre-socratic philosopher Heraclitus posits that the essence of the universe is 'Change' (which today we would call chaotic energy). Its really a though out guess based upon observation, and quantum physics isn't necessary to derive it. He invents the term 'Logos' which is used in the Gospel of John to describe Jesus ministry. For Heraclitus, chaos is the essence of the universe while logos gives form to that chaos. Therefore Genesis does not originate the concept although it may borrow it.


Proving the existence of God is counter to the concept of God, since God is invisible. If you can provide a means to observe God then you are debunking God. The account in Genesis is similar (quite similar) to an account found in very ancient Egyptian documents, albeit the gods are vanquished from the story in Genesis or successfully opposed by Adam and Eve.
Thanks for your long and insightful post. I wasn't aware that these same concepts were so common in world religious tradition.

You are absolutely right - the Creator God is invisible. I was quoting the Judaeo-Christian scriptures because if one accredits them as the source of absolute truth (which I as a Christian am bound to do, and not only because I'm reasonably familiar with them) then I believe that the results of Hanson's experiment do not in any way contradict that truth.

One is free to assign whatever divine force by whatever name to explain how this happens. But as a Christian I claim and believe that my God is that divine force - I am bound by my religious convictions to make that claim
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Note: Then he became all. Living, non-living, vegetation, animals, humans, sand, rocks, mountains, air, water, everything. ;)
Seeing people so bound is hardly a happy sight. We have no such bondage, that is why I can be an atheist comfortably.
 

GCVP

New Member
It's My Birthday!
Note: Then he became all. Living, non-living, vegetation, animals, humans, sand, rocks, mountains, air, water, everything. ;)
Seeing people so bound is hardly a happy sight. We have no such bondage, that is why I can be an atheist comfortably.

Yes, I agree with you completely. It's such a shame that there is a suffering and miserable world of humanity out there, and what - we are here answering posts? Wait -shouldn't we do something about it - to help the bound and miserable - the tormented oppressed and poor, and the sick?

I think it's a shame that science has become a domain for the unfeeling when there is so much more it can do to help those in need, don't you? Science has such power to transform our lives for the better, instead all that money is wasted on answering unanswerable questions and plumbing the depths of a bottomless universe.

You said that the Hindu scriptures say 'lots of other things'. Do they say anything about God helping the bound and oppressed, too? Something like these verses (sorry I don't know how to cut and paste them - but I'll quote them) - Isaiah 61:1-3, and Luke 4:4 in the Christian Bible?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Wait -shouldn't we do something about it - to help the bound and miserable - the tormented oppressed and poor, and the sick?
Easy to say but does not easily translate into reality, otherwise there might not have been any misery.
 

allfoak

Alchemist
Thanks for your post.

You know, recently I wrote an article. (It's as of yet unpublished). But in it, I brought attention to what the correct goal of science should be. And you know - there was a recent debate in the scientific community about what 'scientific literacy' should be defined as (sorry, I cannot post the link right now). Apparently - a person must have two qualities to be considered as 'scientifically literate'. One - they must have a true appreciation of science and the scientific enterprise. Two - they must be interested in seeing science used for humanitarian purposes.

Your post has addressed a very important point. Many are more interested in seeing science applied ad infinitum to increasing scientific knowledge, or controlling nature, or to acquire profit - and in doing so have completely forgotten about the great potential it has to make the world a better place to live in, for those in genuine need. Thanks for your great post.
Your welcome.
Thank you for your kind respnse.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Yes! Good one! I'd have to agree with you on that too. I know quite a few people like that. Can't discuss anything with them in a 'reasonable' way, you know?

But in a way, they are right. They have genuine 'faith', and they fully believe, even without proof. They are not stubborn fools - the source of their conviction is from something outside this universe of cause-and-effect, beyond human experience. Simply, to save myself from using onerous and repetetive words I'd have to say that they have experienced God. The rest of us are quite pathetic compared with them - perhaps myself included? But I too had such an experience years ago.

The reason I started this thread was for those with even a trace of scientific knowledge out there, not sure that God is real, to perhaps get the hint that God is real. You see, I know that type of topic is sure to garner controversy on a religious forum - but not in the least on a scientific one. It would be deleted outright.
Yes I don't believe in the religious god at all, I think you need a good imagination for that.
 
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