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When the Bible contains obvious falsehood!

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
Even more there are fathers and mothers who have willfully not given their children medication, for diabetes as an example, who believed fully that Jesus would come through for them. They clearly believed and they lost their child for it. Reality simply doesn't line up with the Bible or what it says. For that reason, my only option is to disbelieve what it says.

To base you rejection of what the Bible says, when it doesn't say it, based on the actions of a few, is illogical. It is actually an excuse for not doing something you don'[t really want to do, IMO.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
So how do I trust what I read in the Bible when I encounter obvious falsehoods?

John 14:13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 16:23 In that day you will no longer ask me anything. Very truly I tell you, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.

Those two statements are obvious falsehood!

Now I'm aware of James 1

"But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord".

But here in lies the problem. One of the definitions of insanity is "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." I've asked many times for noble graces and virtues to help me serve and obey God, and not received them. I asked in Jesus name without doubting, but when God repeatedly is unfaithful to his word, that is when the doubt starts to set in. If God would be faithful to His Word, I wouldn't doubt.

I know you're reading this Mr. God!! ;)

What can be asked in his name? Maybe that is the correct road to investigate? If I am reading John 16 correctly, the only thing that can be asked in his name is himself, ie Jesus.

Matthew

24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If any want to become my followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 25 For those who want to save their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will find it.

To deny oneself and to take up the cross is to die to your own self, including all your dreams, fears, desires and hopes. Only then can anything be asked in his name and not your own name, for you have ceased to exist.

2 cents from a non-Christian. Feel free to ignore. :)
 

Blackdog22

Well-Known Member
To base you rejection of what the Bible says, when it doesn't say it, based on the actions of a few, is illogical. It is actually an excuse for not doing something you don'[t really want to do, IMO.

It says that though. I can go look at it right now. It simply doesn't mean what it says which begs the question, what else could "Ask anything in my name and I will do it" possibly mean. I want an alternative explanation that makes that make sense or its blatantly and demonstrably false.
 

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
It says that though. I can go look at it right now. It simply doesn't mean what it says which begs the question, what else could "Ask anything in my name and I will do it" possibly mean. I want an alternative explanation that makes that make sense or its blatantly and demonstrably false.

The answer to all prayer is based on what Jesus prayed just before His crucifixion---Lord, let this cup pass from Me, yet not My will but Yours be done.

Christians should always want God's will to be done in their lives.“



Whatever their bodies do affects their souls. It is funny how mortals always picture us as putting things into their minds: in reality our best work is done by keeping things out...”
C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Well why is the Bible written in codes that are hard to interpret? It doesn't mean what it says. Why did God give us a book that doesn't mean the words it says? Why give us a book that is so hard to interpret that so many will misinterpret?

Since it doesn't mean what it says, how does one ever know if they have the right interpretation?

No doubt the people who wrote the scriptures used words with meanings that the readers of the time Understood. However It would take a deep understanding of linguistics to untangle what they meant in terms of todays language.
Even with the comparative short time between the language of the KJV and today. most people struggle, because they think the words and phrases still have the same relative meaning.

Even for an academic well versed in ancient languages and idioms has to take into account social differences and gender issues especially when translating from Koin Greek. As it cater for male, female and either gender, as alternatives. when modern languages are limited to male and female.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
No doubt the people who wrote the scriptures used words with meanings that the readers of the time Understood. However It would take a deep understanding of linguistics to untangle what they meant in terms of todays language.
Even with the comparative short time between the language of the KJV and today. most people struggle, because they think the words and phrases still have the same relative meaning.

Even for an academic well versed in ancient languages and idioms has to take into account social differences and gender issues especially when translating from Koin Greek. As it cater for male, female and either gender, as alternatives. when modern languages are limited to male and female.
Who actually used the language style of the KJV?
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Who actually used the language style of the KJV?
It is read, quoted, and preached from, by millions every day. with out any thought to the language.

In fact last night the visiting priest used words from Genesis and from Matthew in his homily during the Eucharist. It came out after the service, that he favours a literalist view of the Bible. Which is hardly the mood of our congregation.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I think the context of this scripture may help us have a balanced view of Jesus statement. "Most truly I say to you, whoever exercises faith in me will also do the works that I do; and he will do works greater than these, because I am going my way to the Father. Also, whatever you ask in my name, I will do this, so that the Father may be glorified in connection with the Son. If you ask anything in my name, I will do it. “If you love me, you will observe my commandments." (John 14:12-15)
Jesus was talking about doing God's will and keeping Christ's commands. Obviously, Jesus was not speaking in absolute terms when he promised to do what they asked in his name. And Jesus was not telling them to ask him, IMO, but rather to ask God in Jesus name. So prayers addressed to Jesus do not have God's approval. Nor did Jesus mean that if we pray in his name for the death of a cable installer who didn't show up as promised, or that we win the lotto, that our prayer would be answered. John, who wrote this book under inspiration, said; "And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that no matter what we ask according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us concerning whatever we are asking, we know that we are to have the things we ask for, since we have asked them of him. (1 John 5:14,15)
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Fairly simple. Ask yourself one question:

Was there ever a time, Jesus did not receive what he asked of God?
And there you have it... God playing favorites. Always has, apparently always will. That's not how I father my children. Never have, never will.

God and I disagree in such fundamental ways that He doesn't support or represent my most basic principles - therefore I do not need His support, nor His representation. From what I have read and been witnessed to He would simply muck it all up anyway.
 

Scott C.

Just one guy
So how do I trust what I read in the Bible when I encounter obvious falsehoods?

John 14:13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 16:23 In that day you will no longer ask me anything. Very truly I tell you, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.

Those two statements are obvious falsehood!

Now I'm aware of James 1

"But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord".

But here in lies the problem. One of the definitions of insanity is "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." I've asked many times for noble graces and virtues to help me serve and obey God, and not received them. I asked in Jesus name without doubting, but when God repeatedly is unfaithful to his word, that is when the doubt starts to set in. If God would be faithful to His Word, I wouldn't doubt.

I know you're reading this Mr. God!! ;)

You're right that we don't necessarily get exactly what we requested. But I do believe that God always answers sincere heartfelt prayers. God gives us what we really need and not what we think we need. My first encounter with this was when I was a little kid. I used to watch the cartoon "Felix the Cat" on TV. Felix had a magic bag that he could transform into whatever he wanted such as a car, a plane, or whatever. I prayed that a magic bag would appear for me, believing that God would give me whatever I asked. Well, it didn't happen (surprise). I learned a lesson from that. Since then, I have seen prayers answered time and time again, but not necessarily exactly as I asked. But in the long run, I can see God's wisdom and grace in how he responds and when.

Felix Magic Bag!
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
So how do I trust what I read in the Bible when I encounter obvious falsehoods?

John 14:13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 16:23 In that day you will no longer ask me anything. Very truly I tell you, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.

Those two statements are obvious falsehood!

Now I'm aware of James 1

"But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord".

But here in lies the problem. One of the definitions of insanity is "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." I've asked many times for noble graces and virtues to help me serve and obey God, and not received them. I asked in Jesus name without doubting, but when God repeatedly is unfaithful to his word, that is when the doubt starts to set in. If God would be faithful to His Word, I wouldn't doubt.

I know you're reading this Mr. God!! ;)

Not sure what falsehoods you're referring to. My guess is you feel all prayers should be answered without the approval of the will of God. I've heard people pray for their death or another's death. Thank God Jesus answers prayers according to God's will.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
It is read, quoted, and preached from, by millions every day. with out any thought to the language.

In fact last night the visiting priest used words from Genesis and from Matthew in his homily during the Eucharist. It came out after the service, that he favours a literalist view of the Bible. Which is hardly the mood of our congregation.
Now, yes.
Not back then.
 

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
And there you have it... God playing favorites. Always has, apparently always will. That's not how I father my children. Never have, never will.

Jesus prayed the cruciifixion would be taken away. It wasn't. There you have it, God does not play favorites,

God and I disagree in such fundamental ways that He doesn't support or represent my most basic principles - therefore I do not need His support, nor His representation. From what I have read and been witnessed to He would simply muck it all up anyway.

It must be wonderful to be smarter than God.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Now, yes.
Not back then.

When it was written it used the language of the time,but in a form as used in poetry and oratory. Though not perhaps by the majority of the uneducated, but when spoken out loud in church it would have been understood by everyone. That was the prime requirement set for it by the King.
It is designed for listening not for reading.
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
When it was written it used the language of the time,but in a form as used in poetry and oratory. Though not perhaps by the majority of the uneducated, but when spoken out loud in church it would have been understood by everyone. That was the prime requirement set for it by the King.
It is designed for listening not for reading.
That is my point.
That the KJV "language style" (for lack of a better term) was not used at that time outside stuffy shirt meetings.
 
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