BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Sure, Christianity is for old folks! Because trusting Christ takes off years of stress and anxiety. Jesus makes you younger and then grants eternal life.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Religion is for Enlightened Old Folks... Right?
- Thread starter Quintessence
- Start date
Sure, Christianity is for old folks! Because trusting Christ takes off years of stress and anxiety. Jesus makes you younger and then grants eternal life.
There is that, too. Honestly, as much as I like PEW Research, I think that the framing they use to survey about religion is very dated and very Christian-centric. Granted, their framing is also a reflection of America's very dated and telescopic understanding of what religion is (which is why we have folks call things that are religious by the term "spiritual" in the first place). I find it interesting to think about this from the standpoint of the podcast I was listening to. Druidry - that of OBOD in particular - doesn't present itself as "a religion" per se, but also as a "spirituality" or philosophy. So what is up with fewer young people being engaged in paths like that? It's an interesting question.
One that the speaker talked about was a combination of an image/marketing problem and a lack of awareness. Speaking personally, that is a huge thing that kept me away from religion until I was much older than I should have been. I held a lot of misconceptions about what religion was and was completely unaware of movements like contemporary Paganism or even progressive Christianity. I didn't get involved because I didn't know there was anything to get involved with.
My journey in atheism has been long & varied.
At first, I was "by default".
Then I became "confirmed".
"Staunch" followed that.
Next, I want thru my "self described" phase.
And finally, with the unlightenment of old age, I became a "revolting" atheist.
What a roller coaster of a ride it's been!
DragonHawk1959
Member
I became interested in religions at 16-18.
But I wouldn't necessarily call an interest in religions "enlightened". Plus this is a misstatement of what the studies found.
They actually found that people in the younger demographics tended to identify as spiritual rather than religious. Mostly because they reject the dogma of organized religion.
DragonHawk1959
Member
You repeatedly used "thought," past tense. Have you changed your mind?
Blastcat
Active Member
Those are great questions.
I was never given a choice about religion. I was expected to be a good boy. I was. I was a very good boy.
I started having doubts at the time when they started to press a little harder on me with their beliefs. I had to believe this and that and the other thing.. say what?
As soon as I started to ask the loving question: "Why" I was told to shhh. Just believe and figure it out later.. yeah. Everyone toed the line. We all wanted to be good little boys and girls, didn't we?
I went home from that feeling a bit abused. I was 8. Took me years to figure it all out. ( I did it all secretly, and felt a lot of guilt ) One day, I just decided that I was the boss of me.
And if we are talking about the "big" philosophical question, we have to be old enough to read.
I doubt that will be news to you, but I think it is the mistaking of Abrahamic religion for religion proper.
Most forms of those are simply not appealling to people who are not very tradionalistic to begin with.
Far as I remember, I always was.
VitoOFMCap
Member
I feel that you raise an interesting point, but perhaps there are some aspects that have not been mentioned about this. For almost the entire survey, the older people "participate" (to use a word that envelopes the questions) at a higher level in their church except for one area: Do you feel a sense of awe by the universe?
The key component behind any faith tradition is this sense of something wholly other, the numinous that Rudolph Otto describes. If a religion is only about doctrine, liturgical norms, and personal enlightenment, then I would argue that what one is describing is a wisdom tradition, not a faith tradition. The foundation of any religion is not an amalgamation of soteriology, morality, supplication, or miracles, but rather it is a response to a common human experience of that awesome mystery: whether that be manifested by an experience of a person, some thing outside our perception, nature, or even in the movie Contact, an experience of the universe, where only a poet can truly capture the beauty and awe of that celestial body. This is a component of religion where the Pew Research shows that young people have the same level of involvement as older people.
Second, the survey does not ask any questions about mission. In this new world of Trump, I have seen many people who have come together to stand in unity and solidarity with others who are marginalized and oppressed. Just as the numinous is a human experience, so also are suffering, affliction, and poverty. Similarly, the human response to injustice. Whether its about an oil pipeline or tax rates, injustice is something we as humans understand. Unfortunately the responses to those injustices don't always measure up to one's own spirituality. Even still, if a faith tradition or philosophy is to move beyond the abstract, then some form of praxis is needed. A church is not a church if it happens only in a building.
Since the OP sought this survey out as a means to invite older people into a faith community, my humble suggestion would be to move beyond doctrine and philosophy. All ages have access to experience that Mystery, and it is the narratives of that Druidic tradition that allow people to enter into that. Second, the response to social issues is a common meeting ground for many inter-faith gatherings. If you are seeking to invite others and not "convert" (which is how I understand your intention), your community's involvement in social issues invites others to see how your community responds to social injustice and oppression.
TL,DR - There's more to religion than philosophy and thinks. The awe-inspiring experience of the "wholly other" is the same.
TheMusicTheory
Lord of Diminished 5ths
A worthy question best suited for another thread.
But very briefly, thinking too darned much about things (aka, deep thinking) is pretty much what led me to religion. This is not atypical of folks involved in newer religious movements, and as this OP is inspired by a podcast produced by one such movement, that sort of framing is what was on my mind.
Thinking too darn much is what led me to realize that religion was largely nonsense. So I'm not sure the premise is sound.
Depends on what religions you are talking about. With respect to the religion that my parents attempted to raise me in, I agree. I abandoned it because it didn't gel with me thinking too darn much about everything. Later, I found religious paths that not only work with that, but encourage it if not require it.
TheMusicTheory
Lord of Diminished 5ths
Depends on what religions you are talking about. With respect to the religion that my parents attempted to raise me in, I agree. I abandoned it because it didn't gel with me thinking too demand much about everything. Later, I found religious paths that not only work with that, but encourage it if not require it.
My point is that I am perfectly capable of "deep thinking" about larger questions without the need to appeal to the metaphysical or spiritual.
MrMrdevincamus
Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
What do you think is behind these trends? Is religion, deep thinking, and enlightenment really just for old folks? At what age did you become seriously interested in religion? Or maybe there was an age where you became disinterested in it?
What is behind those trends? ummmm'....ahhhh'...lets see....I think it's "the king of all terrors",* i.e. the fear of DEATH and what if anything comes next. I do think the psychology and related studies of death and aging indicate that the concept or the event of death is 'more real' and absolutely inevitable as people age. Also there are stages of life which are (loosely) youth, adolescence, young adulthood, middle age, and old age where different things are important than they were in prior stages. Sometimes even our world view changes. Those are the non-spiritual things that happen to many of us if we are lucky enough to get older.
Lastly, deep thinking such as those that call on higher brain functions of the right parietal lobe et al the regions of mathematical ability etc are really at their peak when we are in our 20's. Philosophy and maybe even logic may benefit from life experience but I am not familiar of any studies that say one way or another.
God bless this forum ~
* job 18:14 .......His confidence shall be rooted out of his tabernacle, and it shall bring him to the king of terrors.
: { >
Last edited:
Robert Landbeck
Member
As all the 'tough' questions remain intact, as they have throughout history, and neither philosophy nor religion have effected the necessary solution to the problems, it is no wonder that so many are honestly disinterested. Why waste time on a body of ideas that have failed in there primary purpose and function? As the DoomsDay Clock is moved ever closer to midnight, if religion is without the authority to redirect the 'human experiment' off the slippery slope towards it's own self made hell, God must have other plans! The Final Freedoms
Vancouversailor
Member
I am convinced it is the fear factor.
Humans are the only species that have a conscious awareness of their eventual death. However, to a 20 or 30 year old 50 years from now sounds like an eternity. It is a whole different story for someone who is in their sixties, has already seen some lifelong friends pass away, and have health issues they know could become life threatening.
What is next? The honest answer is 'nothing' which is all that follows death but many people can't accept that so they finally turn to religion, which talks about eternal life and bliss in heaven or wherever your religion takes you. The fact that it 'ain't so' does not have much meaning to someone relying on blind faith to alleviate their fears of dying.
Enough said.
Humans are the only species that have a conscious awareness of their eventual death. However, to a 20 or 30 year old 50 years from now sounds like an eternity. It is a whole different story for someone who is in their sixties, has already seen some lifelong friends pass away, and have health issues they know could become life threatening.
What is next? The honest answer is 'nothing' which is all that follows death but many people can't accept that so they finally turn to religion, which talks about eternal life and bliss in heaven or wherever your religion takes you. The fact that it 'ain't so' does not have much meaning to someone relying on blind faith to alleviate their fears of dying.
Enough said.
My ideas are always provisional.
Epictetus
Member
An interesting thread. Brought me back to this forum after a long absence. (I'm a 73 year-old retiree and just too busy.)
I started to think systematically about religion when I was about 13. Coming back from church one morning it occurred to me that if what they were saying was true then I should take it seriously. I then went into a few years' phase of church-changing, finally settling on Catholicism at 18.
I took my faith very seriously, sent all my kids to Catholic schools, worked for the Church for 23 years (33 if you count a private Catholic school) and thought I was settled. Then I did a Masters degree in Theology and found that what I had believed and what the Church taught all rested on a rather shaky foundation. And that was from studying at a Catholic university.
Having recognised that I could no longer in conscience call myself a Catholic (though it's part of my identity) I made a good study of Buddhism and have now incorporated that into my identity, and of Islam, but I don't identify with that. I found Advaita Vedanta makes a lot of sense, but only at an intellectual level. Now I think of myself as an atheist, but not a materialist. I also found Schopenhauer's take on ontology worth reflecting upon. His is not a religious philosophy though he was much influenced by the Upanishads and Buddhism.
It's not really about religion, is it. It's about being and consciousness. We may not know if God exists, but we know that existence exists, and what is that all about? Being is and we are consciousness of it. That's all we really know and that's probably the beginning and the end of any intellectual or spiritual quest.
I started to think systematically about religion when I was about 13. Coming back from church one morning it occurred to me that if what they were saying was true then I should take it seriously. I then went into a few years' phase of church-changing, finally settling on Catholicism at 18.
I took my faith very seriously, sent all my kids to Catholic schools, worked for the Church for 23 years (33 if you count a private Catholic school) and thought I was settled. Then I did a Masters degree in Theology and found that what I had believed and what the Church taught all rested on a rather shaky foundation. And that was from studying at a Catholic university.
Having recognised that I could no longer in conscience call myself a Catholic (though it's part of my identity) I made a good study of Buddhism and have now incorporated that into my identity, and of Islam, but I don't identify with that. I found Advaita Vedanta makes a lot of sense, but only at an intellectual level. Now I think of myself as an atheist, but not a materialist. I also found Schopenhauer's take on ontology worth reflecting upon. His is not a religious philosophy though he was much influenced by the Upanishads and Buddhism.
It's not really about religion, is it. It's about being and consciousness. We may not know if God exists, but we know that existence exists, and what is that all about? Being is and we are consciousness of it. That's all we really know and that's probably the beginning and the end of any intellectual or spiritual quest.
Could you explain what you mean by "metaphysical" and "spiritual?" I'm not clear on how you are using those terms.
I would say that deep thinking requires consideration of metaphysics (aka, asking questions about the nature of existence/reality), and that religions inherently deal in metaphysics on at least some level. I'm guessing you do not mean the formal understanding of the word "metaphysics?" As for "spiritual," I just plain don't know what that word means. Thus I don't use it, or appeal to it.
Religion is for Enlightened Old Folks... Right?
Proverbs 22:6, Train up a child in the way he should go, Even when he is old he will not depart from it.
The problem is that children are not being taught from parents like they should be. We cannot leave it all up to the churches, it is a parents responsibility to make sure that all of the family has the training it needs to live a life that is pleasing to God.
ronandcarol
Proverbs 22:6, Train up a child in the way he should go, Even when he is old he will not depart from it.
The problem is that children are not being taught from parents like they should be. We cannot leave it all up to the churches, it is a parents responsibility to make sure that all of the family has the training it needs to live a life that is pleasing to God.
ronandcarol