The following things about your religion aren't special...

omega2xx · Feb 12, 2017

A Greased Scotsman said:
Again, how would you know?! If you've never looked for yourself you have no reason to assume it's a waste of time. You're engaging in confirmation bias.

The Bible says there is only one God. Why should I not believe it, since God cannot lie?

I've looked for one and found her. Another one found me.

Click to expand...

What's her name and how did she convince you she is a God?

Verses supporting salvation by faith alone:

Romans 3:28

Romans 5:1

Galatians 3:24

Verses supporting salvation by faith and works:

James 2:24

You were saying?

Click to expand...

It is interesting that the exact 2 example given as works in James are given as example of faith in Hebrews. Without faith Noah would not have built the ark. His faith cause him to work. Without faith Abraham left his land and his relatives. His faith cause him to do the work, Without faith Noah would not have built the ark and Abraham would have stayed home. Now look at Jas 2:14, which basically says faith without works is not saving faith. If one has saving faith, he will have works. If he does not have works, he does not have saving faith. Faith and works are opposites sides of the same coin.

I'm merely reversing your own lack of thinking back on you. If you see it as flawed then I suggest and examine the claims that my statement is reflecting.

Click to expand...

Actually you are interjecting your misunderstanding and trying to convince me you actually understand the Bible. You will have to do a much better job if you hope to convince my you understand the Bible. All it takes i prayer and an open mind.

Blackdog22 said:
The point the verses got across was to love people who do you wrong, that is specifically saying love your enemy, apparently you think that if I say "Would you like to dance" and "I like would to dance with you" then they have drastically different meanings. This is such a bizarre way of going about basic conversation I have to ponder if you are trolling me. Besides the fact you are actively talking about things you admit to knowing nothing about, the rest of your points come across from the pov of someone who has lived in a bubble their entire lives. On the other hand, you are exactly the kind of person I run into in America regarding Christianity, so on that front, I thank you for proving all my points in regards to people with your mentality.

I never troll intentionally, but I am sure i do from time to time.

Saying to love people who do me wrong is the same as "love your enemy is not accurate. My friends can do me wrong, but they are not my enemy.

What have I Admitted that I don't know what I am talking about? If anyone is in a bubble, it is you. I did not become a Christian until I was 45 years old. I was in the bubble of spiritual ignorance then,. I had a sharp pocket knife and soon I burst all of the bubbles and escaped.

I will lend you my knife and then you will escape the bubble you are in.

The Emperor of Mankind · Feb 12, 2017

omega2xx said:
What's her name and how did she convince you she is a God?

Aphrodite and she answered the first prayer I ever made to her the very next night. I don't think I need to tell you what the prayer was for.

It is interesting that the exact 2 example given as works in James are given as example of faith in Hebrews. Without faith Noah would not have built the ark. His faith cause him to work. Without faith Abraham left his land and his relatives. His faith cause him to do the work, Without faith Noah would not have built the ark and Abraham would have stayed home. Now look at Jas 2:14, which basically says faith without works is not saving faith. If one has saving faith, he will have works. If he does not have works, he does not have saving faith. Faith and works are opposites sides of the same coin.

So presumably you believe faith alone does not bring God's salvation which, according to mainstreram Christian orthodoxy, is heretical. Also there's Ragin's list of examples where the Bible contradicts itself which you have yet to address.

Actually you are interjecting your misunderstanding and trying to convince me you actually understand the Bible. You will have to do a much better job if you hope to convince my you understand the Bible. All it takes i prayer and an open mind.

I'm not arguing about the Bible; I'm arguing about your stance on the gods. You have no reason in the world to justify the premise that my gods are false because - having failed to answer my question - I can only assume you've never actively looked for them. So you have no way to know if they exist or not. I, on the other hand, was brought up a Christian and spent years learning about the Christian god. In all that time, to my knowledge, he never answered my prayers; in fact I'm pretty sure he never even responded. I actually have a reason - personal experience - for claiming your god is mythical (i.e. false).

What have I Admitted that I don't know what I am talking about? If anyone is in a bubble, it is you. I did not become a Christian until I was 45 years old. I was in the bubble of spiritual ignorance then,. I had a sharp pocket knife and soon I burst all of the bubbles and escaped.

I will lend you my knife and then you will escape the bubble you are in.

It's this sort of arrogant assumption that those who don't believe in Jesus must be spiritually ignorant that really throws people off of Christianity. It's so egotistical to assume your faith is right and others are wrong when you confess to knowing only what your own religion says about them. You claim others are ignorant and yet "IMO, it is foolish to study false religions. I know enough about them that Christianity teaches they are false religions."

Fool · Feb 12, 2017

Jeremiahcp said:
So you decided what everyone in the world thinks, so that you can then tell them they are all wrong. This is how you delude yourself into believing you and your views are unique.

the op is not stating that it is known what everyone thinks. it states that there is nothing new under the sun. the sun shines upon the whole world, it isn't unique to self-identifying "the chosen".

none are chosen. those who recognize that they are not unique; everyone has the capacity to realize the sun doesn't belong to anyone.

omega2xx · Feb 12, 2017

A Greased Scotsman said:
d she answered the first prayer I ever made to her the very next night.

Ho do you know it was not coincidence?

I don't think I need to tell you what the prayer was for.

I have no idea.

So presumably you believe faith alone does not bring God's salvation which, according to mainstreram Christian orthodoxy, is heretical. Also there's Ragin's list of examples where the Bible contradicts itself which you have yet to address.

Actually we are saved by grace alone---Eph 2:8. Works play no part in man's saslvatgion---Eph 2:9

I'm not arguing about the Bible; I'm arguing about your stance on the gods. You have no reason in the world to justify the premise that my gods are false because - having failed to answer my question - I can only assume you've never actively looked for them. So you have no way to know if they exist or not.

Actually I do know your gods are false. The only true God says He is the only one. That makes all others only gods and that only in futile imaginations.

I, on the other hand, was brought up a Christian and spent years learning about the Christian god. In all that time, to my knowledge, he never answered my prayers; in fact I'm pretty sure he never even responded. I actually have a reason - personal experience - for claiming your god is mythical (i.e. false).

Actually He answered all of hem. No is and answer. However if you were not a Christians with faith in Him, He is not going to answer them.

You don't only don't understand Christianity, you can't. Its not what I say, it is what God says(ICor 2:14). You and the others prove the accuracy of that verse every day.

So presumably you believe faith alone does not bring God's salvation which, according to mainstreram Christian orthodoxy, is heretical. Also there's Ragin's list of examples where the Bible contradicts itself which you have yet to address.

I must have missed it. If you give me the post number, I will address all of them Those list from atheists sites are easy to refute, they don't , cant' understand the Bible either.

I actually have a reason - personal experience - for claiming your god is mythical (i.e. false).

No you don't. prove me wrong.

The Kilted Heathen · Feb 12, 2017

omega2xx said:
The only true God says He is the only one.

Funny, then, that the distinction would need to be made. By a self-proclaimed "jealous god", to boot. What would he have to be jealous of? To paraphrase a quote by Tywin Lannister; "A god who must say 'I am the one true god' is not the only true god."

However if you were not a Christians with faith in Him

Ah, the old "you're doing it wrong!" excuse. Classic.

You don't only don't understand Christianity, you can't. Its not what I say, it is what God says(ICor 2:14).

"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."

Firstly that's what Paul says to the Corinthians, not what your god says, but hang on--haven't you been saying that our Gods are false, our beliefs are foolish, etc etc? You have! So by this logic, perhaps you just don't under our beliefs because you can't.

You and the others prove the accuracy of that verse every day.

Futile effort, I know--it's a comfort blanket. There is no truth to it - those who don't believe your religion are absolutely capable of understanding it - and it only serves to make people like you feel better about their close-mindedness. Furthermore, the verse allows - and you reinforce - quite a bit of arrogance. It makes it easy for you to do exactly what you've done here; mock others for their lack of belief in your god, but unsurprisingly provide nothing to explain or show the "error". Lastly, it's a bit self-defeating. Jesus - oh, sorry, "your god" - tells you to preach to all nations (Mark 16:15). How can you do that if most the world doesn't and can't know the things you're hucking?

I must have missed it. If you give me the post number, I will address all of them

How very transparent. Good luck.

No you don't. prove me wrong.

Oh wait, I think the next reply is "I know you are but what am I?" How juvenile. Neither Scotsman or I have anything left obligated to you. If anything, many balls are in your court to prove - and "god says so" isn't that - the many claims that you've made. But we know you won't. You're showing with every post just how bigoted you can be, and that you have no intention to explain yourself. You even flawlessly (and predictably) use your bible as excuse as to why you won't (can't) explain.

The Emperor of Mankind · Feb 12, 2017

omega2xx said:
Ho do you know it was not coincidence?

I don't. I believe that's what happened. I try to keep an open mind about such things. Doubt is to faith as a whetstone is to a sword. Unlike you, I understand the difference between knowledge & belief.

I have no idea.

Displaying your religious ignorance here. If you bothered to crack open a book about other belief systems you'd know what Aphrodite was the goddess of. But you won't because it's far easier to lazily dismiss other beliefs off as false rather than having to think. In fact, if you believe other religions are false then why are you even here on this forum?

Actually we are saved by grace alone---Eph 2:8. Works play no part in man's saslvatgion---Eph 2:9

That you can claim this after telling me that works are essential to faith shows the amount of mental gymnastics & cognitive dissonance you have to employ to believe the Bible is true.

Actually I do know your gods are false. The only true God says He is the only one. That makes all others only gods and that only in futile imaginations.

No you don't. Knowledge is gained through research & experience and you have openly admitted to undertaking neither of these. Therefore you do not know. You believe.

Actually He answered all of hem. No is and answer. However if you were not a Christians with faith in Him, He is not going to answer them.

As if you'd know! More of your arrogance. I believed in the Christian god growing up because it never occurred to me that I could choose otherwise. Turns out my faith was unjustified.

You don't only don't understand Christianity, you can't. Its not what I say, it is what God says(ICor 2:14). You and the others prove the accuracy of that verse every day.

God doesn't say that, though. Peter does. How can I take you seriously when you don't even know who wrote what parts of the Bible?

I must have missed it. If you give me the post number, I will address all of them Those list from atheists sites are easy to refute, they don't , cant' understand the Bible either.

Non-Christians like atheists & Pagans tend to have a greater understanding of the Bible than Christians do; normally because Christian faith requires the deliberate dismissal of Biblical flaws.

No you don't. prove me wrong.

****, I didn't realise I was responding to Kent Hovind. How do you expect me to prove that my personal experience isn't sufficient evidence?

That's a rhetorical question; I'm pretty sure you don't which is rather the point.

If my personal experiences are inadequate evidence then so are yours. And so is the Bible which is, after all, written by men acting on personal experiences.

omega2xx · Feb 12, 2017

The Ragin Pagan said:
Funny, then, that the distinction would need to be made. By a self-proclaimed "jealous god", to boot. What would he have to be jealous of? To paraphrase a quote by Tywin Lannister; "A god who must say 'I am the one true god' is not the only true god."

What a silly sthin to say. That ells people searching, all who claim to be God's are liars.

]Ah, the old "you're doing it wrong!" excuse. Classic.

Ah, the old response , yo said I am doing it wrong, Classic

"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."

Click to expand...

Firstly that's what Paul says to the Corinthians, not what your god says, but hang on--haven't you been saying that our Gods are false, our beliefs are foolish, etc etc? You have! So by this logic, perhaps you just don't under our beliefs because you can't.

Give me a break, You reading comprehension is much better that of a cave man, and that verse is at about a 10th grade reading comprehension liver.

Futile effort, I know--it's a comfort blanket. There is no truth to it - those who don't believe your religion are absolutely capable of understanding it - and it only serves to make people like you feel better about their close-mindedness. Furthermore, the verse allows - and you reinforce - quite a bit of arrogance. It makes it easy for you to do exactly what you've done here; mock others for their lack of belief in your god, but unsurprisingly provide nothing to explain or show the "error". Lastly, it's a bit self-defeating. Jesus - oh, sorry, "your god" - tells you to preach to all nations (Mark 16:15). How can you do that if most the world doesn't and can't know the things you're hucking?

Of course you can understand the lieral, but you cant understand the spiritual truths.

How very transparent

Click to expand...

. Good luck.

Oh wait, I think the next reply is "I know you are but what am I?" How juvenile. Neither Scotsman or I have anything left obligated to you. If anything, many balls are in your court to prove - and "god says so" isn't that - the many claims that you've made. But we know you won't. You're showing with every post just how bigoted you can be, and that you have no intention to explain yourself. You even flawlessly (and predictably) use your bible as excuse as to why you won't (can't) explain.

You haven't given me anything to explain. All you do is whine. You don't even understand what bigoted means, it is just your childish way to try and insult me.. I guess that' the best you can do. I may have over estimated your intellect level.

The Kilted Heathen · Feb 12, 2017

omega2xx said:
What a silly sthin to say. That ells people searching, all who claim to be God's are liars.

Would you mind clarifying this to make sense? In English, preferably.

Give me a break, You reading comprehension is much better that of a cave man, and that verse is at about a 10th grade reading comprehension liver.

A comprehension liver? Science has found a new organ! But really, none of your petty insults at all addressed what was said; further evidence that this is a wasted effort.

Of course you can understand the lieral, but you cant understand the spiritual truths.

Sure thing, Linus.

Also you surely missed the link to the post of biblical contradictions that you said you would address. THIS IS A LINK; CLICK ME.

You don't even understand what bigoted means

A bigot is one who holds an obstinate belief in the superiority of their own opinions, and a prejudiced intolerance of the opinions of others. You to a T. It cannot be an insult if it's true, and what you have provided here is more than enough evidence for fact.

Blackdog22 · Feb 12, 2017

omega2xx said:
What have I Admitted that I don't know what I am talking about? If anyone is in a bubble, it is you. I did not become a Christian until I was 45 years old. I was in the bubble of spiritual ignorance then,. I had a sharp pocket knife and soon I burst all of the bubbles and escaped.

Not to be rude but at this moment I have to assume you have no concept of what any religion teaches outside of Christianity.

Guilty. Sometimes the truth is rude, but necessary. IMO, it is foolish to study false religions. I know enough about them that Christianity teaches they are false religions. Especially those with more than one God.

This is specifically what you said, you then continue going on about other religions you claim to know nothing about all through this thread. You sure you aren't trolling?

omega2xx said:
I never troll intentionally, but I am sure i do from time to time.

Saying to love people who do me wrong is the same as "love your enemy is not accurate. My friends can do me wrong, but they are not my enemy.

Okay, fair enough point. It clearly isn't saying to only love your friends, but if you want to throw that in their that is fine, I can roll with this.

So then, consider this! If the Bible is right because it says to love your enemy, and that is unique to the Bible therefore its automatically right, then when Judaism claims a similar, yet slightly different point, that is also however unique from your pov, then it must certainly be right as well. Do you see the trap you have put yourself in? If the Bibles verses are unique because you want to slightly change the meaning then that also means what the other book has is unique, by your own logic.Your attempt at making the Bible "seem" unique can ONLY mean that then the verses in other books are unique to those books, because they aren't the same or saying the same things. Your logical conclusion has only proven, to I suppose anyone but yourself, that all books and religions are true by your logic.

I just don't understand how you can't see this.

Blackdog22 · Feb 12, 2017

Fool said:
the op is not stating that it is known what everyone thinks. it states that there is nothing new under the sun. the sun shines upon the whole world, it isn't unique to self-identifying "the chosen".

none are chosen. those who recognize that they are not unique; everyone has the capacity to realize the sun doesn't belong to anyone.

Wanted to thank you for this response. You may of actually summed up what I was trying to say better than I actually did. It feels good to know someone got where I was coming from.

omega2xx · Feb 13, 2017

The Ragin Pagan said:
Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?
"Again the anger of the lord burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, 'Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.'" 2 Samuel 24:1
"Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel." 1 Chronicles 21:1

Two different census. 2 Sam 24:1, number Israel and Judah; I Chr 21:1 - number Israel. Different number of people.

Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary?

Click to expand...

"and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah." Matthew 1:16
"Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli," Luke 3:23

Easily explained if you understand a leverite marriage.

Was John the Baptist Elijah who was to come?

Click to expand...

"The disciples asked him, 'Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?' Jesus replied, 'To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.' Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist." Matthew 17:10-13
"Now this was John’s testimony when the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, 'I am not the Messiah.' They asked him, 'Then who are you? Are you Elijah?' He said, 'I am not.' 'Are you the Prophet?' He answered, 'No.'" John 1:19-21

Jesus said Elijah suffered and that He would suffer at the hands of the Jews, the disciples understood that what He said also applied to the suffering of John the Baptist.

Judas also has three deaths accounted differently.

I'm not going to look them up. If you want me to comment on them you need to give me chapter and verse.

omega2xx · Feb 13, 2017

The Ragin Pagan said:
Of which there is zero evidence for. No more than any other cultures' mythology. You Christians take "divine inspiration" far too literally. It does not mean that your god literally guided the writing of a specific text, but that whoever wrote said text had your god in mind when he did. If I write a poem about my Gods, it too is "divinely inspired"

I have a record written by a man who thought bearing false witness was a sin aginst God. You have nothing to show it is not true.

Not irrelevant. There are several accounts of interactions with Jesus that are ignored. Men compiled and selected your bible's books, and they did so to push a narrative. Your rebuttal is pure denial, nothing more.

Common skeptic jibberish. You have no evidence God did not control the canon and you certainly have no evidence they chose the books to push a narrative. That strawman is as old as the hills.

More false witness from you. It is so named because King James VI and I commissioned it to be written (using poor, rushed translations and with punishments issued when the King's vision wasn't met) to complete work began by Henry VIII for his rebellious Church of England - began because the Church wouldn't let him divorce his wife.

Now who is bearing false witness? You have no evidence it was commissioned to to use poor translations and they were threatened with punishment. The KJB did not change anything about divorce that is not in it today. Another common strawman of skeptics.

It is named for a man, commissioned by a man, overseen by a man, and flawed due to such.

It does have a few flaws but they are due to a lack of understand the language, not intentional. Those flaws have been corrected in the NKJ.

Do explain, because Jesus certainly has not returned

You need to understand that a person can be coming and going at the same time. Those Jesus mentioned did see Jesus coming into His kingdom, To them He was going, To God He was coming.

I've provided you with more than enough, given your obstinacy to equal discourse.

I am not more obstinate than you are.

When it comes to human record, it is. 40 years is a long time, and would have produced something physical. All we have is a myth.

That is hilarious coming from someone who claims, Thor is a God. If I go to the library to find some information on him, will I find it in the non-fiction section?

Actually you did, when you said you know yourself better than I know myself. Something you cannot possibly know.

As usual, it it talk with no evidence. That is something you can't possibly know.

The Emperor of Mankind · Feb 13, 2017

omega2xx said:
I have a record written by a man who thought bearing false witness was a sin aginst God. You have nothing to show it is not true...

Common skeptic jibberish. You have no evidence God did not control the canon and you certainly have no evidence they chose the books to push a narrative. That strawman is as old as the hills.

You obviously don't understand how the onus of proof works. The burden of substantiating extraordinary claims lies with the one making said claims. That would be you in this case. Ragin is merely expressing disbelief in the claims you make. He doesn't need to prove his disbelief. Also you don't seem to understand what a strawman is.

Now who is bearing false witness? You have no evidence it was commissioned to to use poor translations

This is a strawman. Ragin clearly did not say those who commissioned the KJV demanded poor translations; they were the outcome.

It does have a few flaws but they are due to a lack of understand the language, not intentional. Those flaws have been corrected in the NKJ.

If the KJV was compiled under divine inspiration then there would a) have been no errors; and b) there would resultingly be no need for a 'New' version to rectify these errors.

That is hilarious coming from someone who claims, Thor is a God. If I go to the library to find some information on him, will I find it in the non-fiction section?

Actually you probably would. I got my books on the Greek gods out of the Spirituality & Religion section: the same place where you can find more than a few copies of the Bible, the Quran and other miscellaneous books on various religions.

I am not more obstinate than you are.
...
As usual, it it talk with no evidence. That is something you can't possibly know.

Are you able to articulate a response that goes intellectually beyond shovelling what people say to you back at them like snow from a driveway?

omega2xx · Feb 13, 2017

Blackdog22 said:
Not to be rude but at this moment I have to assume you have no concept of what any religion teaches outside of Christianity.
I have limited knowledge. That is enough to reject them.

This is specifically what you said, you then continue going on about other religions you claim to know nothing about all through this thread. You sure you aren't trolling?

Click to expand...

If I am, it is not intentional. I am not even sure what trolling is.

Okay, fair enough point. It clearly isn't saying to only love your friends, but if you want to throw that in their that is fine, I can roll with this.

Click to expand...

Good

So then, consider this! If the Bible is right because it says to love your enemy, and that is unique to the Bible therefore its automatically right, then when Judaism claims a similar, yet slightly different point, that is also however unique from your pov, then it must certainly be right as well.

Click to expand...

First I did not say "love your enemies" makes the Bible right. I said it is beyond man's intellect to make such a statement, it is not taught in any other religion and that makes it unique. I believe the OT was inspired by God just as the NT is. I think Judaism has some wrong interpretations because they reject the NT.

Do you see the trap you have put yourself in? If the Bibles verses are unique because you want to slightly change the meaning then that also means what the other book has is unique, by your own logic.Your attempt at making the Bible "seem" unique can ONLY mean that then the verses in other books are unique to those books, because they aren't the same or saying the same things. Your logical conclusion has only proven, to I suppose anyone but yourself, that all books and religions are true by your logic.

Click to expand...

Most if not all of what all other religions teach is not unique. They all have basically the same doctrines. None of them have the teachings I have mentioned, which IMO point to a superior God.

I just don't understand how you can't see this.

Click to expand...

I do see it, I reject it.

omega2xx · Feb 13, 2017

A Greased Scotsman said:
You obviously don't understand how the onus of proof works. The burden of substantiating extraordinary claims lies with the one making said claims. That would be you in this case. Ragin is merely expressing disbelief in the claims you make. He doesn't need to prove his disbelief.

For the umpteen time, spiritual concepts CANNOT be proved. The ae are accepted by faith alone. That does not means they have not been prove internally to Christians.

If Ragin says what I beliee is wrong, it is up to him to prove it. If he says Thor is a God, it is up to him to prove it. This is not one-way street.

The Emperor of Mankind · Feb 13, 2017

omega2xx said:
For the umpteen time, spiritual concepts CANNOT be proved. The ae are accepted by faith alone. That does not means they have not been prove internally to Christians.

If Ragin says what I beliee is wrong, it is up to him to prove it. If he says Thor is a God, it is up to him to prove it. This is not one-way street.

So where the **** do you get off saying our gods are false ergo our spiritual experiences are invalid but yours aren't? If your experiences can't be evidenced then you have no room trying to claim objective reality for your experiences over others because you've admitted you can't evidence them. You're applying a double-standard here - if you don't have to prove the Christian god is God then neither does Ragin have to prove any claims about Thor. And he didn't claim Thor is God - that doesn't make any sense. He claimed Thor is a god. Learn to English.

omega2xx · Feb 13, 2017

A Greased Scotsman said:
So where the **** do you get off saying our gods are false ergo our spiritual experiences are invalid but yours aren't?

The Bible says there is one God, ergo, all others are false. How can one have a true spiritual experie3iced based on a false premise? I have not said my spiritual experiences are valid. Some probably ar not.

If your experiences can't be evidenced then you have no room trying to claim objective reality for your experiences over others because you've admitted you can't evidence them.

Click to expand...

What I have said that spiritual truths can be proven. Neither can spiritual experiences.

You're applying a double-standard here - if you don't have to prove the Christian god is God then neither does Ragin have to prove any claims about Thor.

Click to expand...

I have admitted I can't prove it. If he claims Thoe is a God, he hss to prove it or do what I did---admit I can't. No double standard.

And he didn't claim Thor is God - that doesn't make any sense. He claimed Thor is a god. Learn to English.

Click to expand...

Here is his statement: "False; Thor is my God." Learn to read.

Liu · Feb 13, 2017

*puts the popcorn aside*

Half of this thread is an educational example of why my religion discourages proselytizing - it's a futile effort.

But, to clarify one point:

The Ragin Pagan said:
omega2xx said:

No [the bible doesn't contradict itself].

Click to expand...

Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?
"Again the anger of the lord burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, 'Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.'" 2 Samuel 24:1
"Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel." 1 Chronicles 21:1

In traditional Judaism, this is actually no contradiction. They consider Satan an aspect of IHVH.
From a Christian point of view however...

But to return to the purpose of the thread:
I already mentioned that I consider the OP's points no argument against, but rather for religion. I'll now show in which way I find them reflected (or not) in my own religion:

Point 1, 2 and 4:

Blackdog22 said:
1: I can feel God! - Mmmhmm, I believe you believe that, I also believe every other religion I have come across in the last 15 years also believes that. When I speak to people who claim to have seen Gods, Aliens, hell, even fairies, they come across as very sincere. I wouldn't doubt their sincerity, however it is not unique to your belief, nor does it make it true. It means nothing at all given these facts. At least, nothing when it comes to any "reason" why your belief is true.
2: God speaks to me! - Again, I believe you believe that. So does everyone else. It is not special nor does it actually mean anything.
[...]
4: I like how it makes me feel - Sure, this is true of most religions. It means nothing for the truth of it, however it can be a good reason to believe, just be aware you could be living a lie to ease your pain.

How to reply to this hugely depends on whether I take an atheistic or theistic position (I'm more or less an agnostic, at least regarding personal deities).

From an atheistic position, the most important thing about having a religion nevertheless is whether it helps you in your life. If it makes you feel great, or helps you deal with psychological issues or simply with life's stress, then that's certainly an asset.
From a theistic position, sure, if I can feel or hear something I consider a deity then I should be careful to not take all of that at face-value. Much may be mere psychological illusions, and even if I get in contact with a spirit or deity, that doesn't mean all it tells me is true.
However, if there are deities or spirits at all, then what better way to find out more about them then trying to contact them? And religions are a pretty common tool to do so.

3: My Gods story is Unique, Jesus died for me! - Of course the story is unique, well not really, there have usually been similar stories previously that your story was likely based on, however, among current beliefs, it is unique. Of course it being unique also means every other religions story is unique as well. Spiderman is fairly unique, but unfortunately, this means nothing at all. Nor is it a reason to believe.

I know that my religion is a mix of several religions and traditions, and there's nothing new under the sun. But that's actually the point in Satanism/LHP - take from all you find what seems worthy and/or what you like, don't stay bound to a tradition for the mere reason of its traditionality.

Additionally, while I don't subscribe to the notion of some Satanists that ours would be some kind of original religion of humanity, I nevertheless can't help but acknowledge that forms of LHP pop up in pretty much any culture from time to time. So, in a way, my religion is explicitly un-unique (as paradoxically as it sounds for a religion of individuality), and I actually consider this a much better reason to adhere to it than any perceived uniqueness: It shows that the principles it's based on are universal and part of the fundamental nature of existence.

5: I have faith! You just don't understand faith... - Terrorists have faith. Not only is there absolutely nothing virtuous about the concept of accepting things without evidence, it can be very dangerous (although not always). At the very least you are being willfully delusional for some form of benefit. This cannot be a healthy way to live. Either way, it is not a good reason to believe, the act of which would, and can only, be evidence for anything and everything....including every other religion....or say.....fairies...

Okay, this point really doesn't fit my religion much at all, it actively discourages blind faith.
There are theistic Satanists that say to develop the ability of feeling the divine one first has to take a leap of faith and start believing for the heck of it. But even in this case it's not really blind faith, but more of a scientific hypothesis which one wants to test - if it doesn't work out, then the hypothesis is falsified and should be disregarded, or only kept up for psychological reasons, not for actual metaphysics.

The Emperor of Mankind · Feb 13, 2017

omega2xx said:
The Bible says there is one God, ergo, all others are false. How can one have a true spiritual experie3iced based on a false premise? I have not said my spiritual experiences are valid. Some probably ar not.

Aye? The Bible also says unicorns are real. So do you believe in unicorns too? You've given us no reason to assume the Bible is in any way authoritative so it's useless outside of the echo chamber you recite it in. This is what Christians so often fail to understand: they can cite Bible verses all day long but they'll be worthless in a debate with non-Christians.

What I have said that spiritual truths can be proven. Neither can spiritual experiences.

So you admit you have no basis for claiming our gods are false. Good.

I have admitted I can't prove it. If he claims Thoe is a God, he hss to prove it or do what I did---admit I can't. No double standard.

Yes, there is a double-standard. Ragin isn't going round acting as though his beliefs are universally true and using them to slander other peoples' religions. You are.

Here is his statement: "False; Thor is my God." Learn to read.

Actually, he said this (emphasis is my own):

The Ragin Pagan said:
Says you--you who are admittedly ignorant of other religions. And yet Thor is a God, and your rejection of other gods does not change what they are.

If he meant God in the way you mean it then saying "Thor is a God" makes no sense whatsoever. Saying he is *a* God implies that Thor is one among many.

Ragin is using language in way that you can readily understand because he knows you're not willing to even learn language or terminology outside of your own faith. To put that in words you can understand: he's dumbing it down for you.

Kelly of the Phoenix · Feb 13, 2017

omega2xx said:
Guilty. Sometimes the truth is rude, but necessary. IMO, it is foolish to study false religions. I know enough about them that Christianity teaches they are false religions. Especially those with more than one God.

If you don't study other religions (something God told me to do specifically), then you run the risk of bearing false witness, at the very least.

omega2xx said:
Most religions teach to find favor with God, one must be good. Christianity doe snot teach that.

It kinda bothers me you think Christianity is not asking you/requiring you to be good.

omega2xx said:
You don't really know when Hinduism was first started.

Judaism as it currently is can probably be traced no further back than the monarchy or maybe the times of the judges. Hebrews were a subset of Canaanites and thus believed what the others did for the most part.

omega2xx said:
No other religion has that doctrine.

There are other trinities, though.

omega2xx said:
Do you have any evidence that Christianity is not the only true one, or that just you default position?

God helped me see the Truth. Whatever Christianity was supposed to be is not what it is.

omega2xx said:
Not one of them said "love you enemy and pray for those who mistreat you, not one one of them even said "love your enemy.

How do you know this if you can't be bothered learning what they actually say?

omega2xx said:
Evidently you didn't understand that one does not have to be a student of a religion to know it is false.

Yes, you (general) can just be a shallow person who has knee-jerk and ignorant reactions towards things you don't wish to understand while simultaneously claiming to worship Truth.

omega2xx said:
any religion that has writing the contradict the Bible is false

So, you worship the bible, and not God? Is God allowed to say what He wants, or does He need to clear it with the biblical publishers first?

omega2xx said:
Men would start wars if their was no religions.

How have there been wars before secularism took hold?

The Ragin Pagan said:
More false witness from you. It is so named because King James VI and I commissioned it to be written (using poor, rushed translations and with punishments issued when the King's vision wasn't met) to complete work began by Henry VIII for his rebellious Church of England - began because the Church wouldn't let him divorce his wife.

Kind of makes you wonder why James can slap his name on a bible and it's considered sacred yet when Thomas Jefferson does the same thing ...

The Ragin Pagan said:
Do explain, because Jesus certainly has not returned.

He came back, if you want to nitpick, three days later. Everyone's looking for a future event that was wrapped up within a week of his death.

omega2xx said:
My friends can do me wrong, but they are not my enemy.

So, if a friend who wrongs you is still a friend, an enemy who doesn't do anything bad to you still is an enemy? You have strange definitions for the words, friend.

omega2xx said:
I did not become a Christian until I was 45 years old. I was in the bubble of spiritual ignorance then

Has anyone else noticed it's the converts who have this issue the most? How many "native" religionists are this insecure?

omega2xx said:
The only true God says He is the only one. That makes all others only gods and that only in futile imaginations.

But early Hebrews worshipped more than one, so which one?

Liu said:
Half of this thread is an educational example of why my religion discourages proselytizing - it's a futile effort.

Indeed. It's why I now loathe the idea. It's like watching car salesmen try to force you to buy a bowling ball and arguing it's a 4-door sedan. I started having way more issues with Christianity as "The Religion of Truuuuuuuuuth" when it became obvious ignorance and flat out falsehoods were part of the marketing campaign.

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