Moses' new prophet

Bishka · Jun 24, 2006

Comet said:
Feared him..... again Deut 18:22

You are taking the word "feared" out of context. In the scriptures, feared is almost never used the way it is today. In older English feared was used synonmously with repsect.

Also fear and afraid are too very different things.

gnostic · Jun 24, 2006

Elijah was taken into a fiery chariot, without dying.

Moses died and was buried:

Deut 34:6 said:
He buried him in the valley in the land of Moab, near Beth-peor; and no oneknows of his burial to this day.

Comet · Jun 24, 2006

gnostic said:
No, at Comet, since he is favoring Elijah. You have done very good work in putting your argument forward on Joshua. Better than mine. :bow:

The most humorous part of this is the debators:

1. A Christian who doesn't know who she wishes to pick
2. A Monist who is only trying to think like a Christian
3. The gnostic poster who sides with #1's points to his side

ha ha ha- this is great and only on RF!!!! Frubals coming to you both for this one!

Bishka · Jun 24, 2006

Comet said:
The most humorous part of this is the debators:

1. A Christian who doesn't know who she wishes to pick

I'm not sure how humorous this and I've said time and time again, I'm not picking any one person because I believe this prophecy can include a number of people.

Comet · Jun 24, 2006

beckysoup61 said:
You are taking the word "feared" out of context. In the scriptures, feared is almost never used the way it is today. In older English feared was used synonmously with repsect.

Also fear and afraid are too very different things.

Either way it is the same term you use in either passage..... won't change the point.

I also just realized we have different Bibles, mine isn't KJV.

That seems to be causing some problems in the wording as well.......

Elijah was taken into a fiery chariot, without dying.

Moses died and was buried:

Yes, but the point isn't of Moses' death it was of the false prophets dying......

Again, we seem to have different Bibles. I gues it is hard to go from here....... You've made gnostics point of Joshua valid with yours and I feel I can still stand by what my Bible says and Elijah...........

I guess I can only interpret this Bible till I have a copy of yours in my hand, even then we are looking at two very different things.........

Bishka · Jun 24, 2006

Comet said:
Either way it is the same term you use in either passage..... won't change the point.

Actually it does change the point. Fear was not the same word then as it is now.

Comet said:
Yes, but the point isn't of Moses' death it was of the false prophets dying......

Yet, you have not shown how Joshua was a false prophet, and I have given plently of supporting verses to show that the Lord talked directly to Joshua.

Comet · Jun 24, 2006

beckysoup61 said:
I'm not sure how humorous this and I've said time and time again, I'm not picking any one person because I believe this prophecy can include a number of people.

1. Are you a Christian? (I say yes)
2. Have you picked somebody? (I say no, because you don't know who to pick as in your view it could be many)
3. Humorous because you have been debating for Joshua (gnotic's pick) for about 3 pages now

If you don't see the humor in that with the other 2 listed, I can't say anything at all anymore...... just laugh and shake my head

gnostic · Jun 24, 2006

Excuse me, comet. But if you look at my profile, I am list myself as an "agnostic", but called myself a "gnostic". It is pun that I am not sorry for.

Previously, I was at islam dot com, where I couldn't use the name agnostic, so I used gnostic as my nic.

When I came here at RF, I had decided to continue to use this same name, even though the name agnostic is available. It's fun to play the enigma.:bounce

My speciality is not religion at all. I actually preferred mythology. My website Timeless Myths, is a labour of love. My other site Dark Mirrors of Heaven is only a side-interest.

Bishka · Jun 24, 2006

Comet said:
1. Are you a Christian? (I say yes)

I am

Comet said:
2. Have you picked somebody? (I say no, because you don't know who to pick as in your view it could be many)

No

Comet said:
3. Humorous because you have been debating for Joshua (gnotic's pick) for about 3 pages now

Only because you say Joshua couldn't possibly be a prophet, and I think otherwise and know otherwise, that Joshua was a true prophet of the Lord.

Bishka · Jun 24, 2006

Some more verses where the Lord talks to Joshua

Joshua 4:15-16

Joshua 4:15-16 said:
15. And the Lord spake unto Joshua saying,
16. Command the presits that bear the ark of the testimony, that they come up out of Jordan.

Joshua 5:2

Joshua 5:2 said:
At that time the Lord said unto Joshua.....

Joshua 5:13-15

Look at these verses and see if you see any similarity to Moses encounter with the Lord for the first time.

Joshua 5:13-15 said:
13. And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stoond a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?

14. And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the Lord am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?

15. And the captain of the Lord's host said unto Joshua, Loose they shoe from off they foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

Notice anything?

Joshua 6:27

Joshua 6:27 said:
6. So the Lord was with Joshua....

Joshua 8:1

Joshua 8:1 said:
1. And the Lord saind unto Joshua...

Joshua 11:9

Joshua 11:9 said:
9. And Joshua did unto them as the Lord bade him...

Joshua 20:1-2

Joshua 20:1-2 said:
1. The Lord also spake unto Joshua saying,

2. Speak to the children of Israel saying, Appoint out for you cities of refuge, whereof I spake unto you by the hand of Moses

Joshua 22:2

Joshua 22:2 said:
2. And said unto them{Joshua speaking}, Ye have kept all that Moses the servant of the Lord commanded you, and have obeyed my voice in all that I commanded you.

Joshua 22:6
Does a leader bless? I don't think so, if Joshua was only a leader, he could not bless them with blessings from the Lord as he does here.

Joshua 22:6 said:
6. So Joshua blessed them, and sent them away: and the went unto their tents

Oh and to answer you if Joshua died also (like Moses died, read
Joshua 23:1, 14

Joshua 23:1 said:
1......that Joshua waxed old and stricken in age..
14.....And behold this day I am going the way of all the earth{Joshua speaking}....

24:29
29. And it came to pass after these things that Joshua, the son of Nun, the servant of the Lord, died being an hundred and ten years old.

Joshua 24:2

Joshua 24:2 said:
2. And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel..

Leaders don't usually make covenants, but they can..I'm not saying they don't ever, but a covenant is usually denoting a spiritual agreement and a spritual postion

Joshua 24:25

Joshua 24:25 said:
25. So Joshua made a covenant with the people that day....

Also, Joshua was the 'servant of the Lord', which usually denotes a preisthood postion

Joshua 24:29

Joshua 24:29 said:
29. And it came to pass after these things that Joshua, the son of Nun, the servant of the Lord, died being an hundred and ten years old.

Also, here

Joshua 24:31

Joshua 24:31 said:
31. And Israel served the Lord all the days of Joshua, and all the days of the leders that overlived Joshua, and which had known all the works of the Lord, that he{Joshua} had done for Israel.

Comet · Jun 24, 2006

beckysoup61 said:
Actually it does change the point. Fear was not the same word then as it is now.

Click to expand...

No for I just read the same verses with "respect" instead of fear..... "you need not respect him"........ rather than "you need not fear him".

Yet, you have not shown how Joshua was a false prophet, and I have given plently of supporting verses to show that the Lord talked directly to Joshua.[/

Click to expand...

(hope it is jsut late and the meds)

Here is what the Bible I read from says - (again we have different Bibles and thus different interpretations)-

Deut 18: 20

" But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of another god, that prophet shall die"

I can only geuss yours reads as different as the passages you have sent to me..........

Bishka · Jun 24, 2006

Comet said:
Deut 18: 20

" But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of another god, that prophet shall die"

I can only geuss yours reads as different as the passages you have sent to me..........

Mine reads just the same, and I have said over and over again, how does this prove Joshua to be a false prophet? Joshua did not presume to speak a word in the Lord's name without the Lord asking Joshua to or commanding Joshua too.

Joshua never spoke in the name of another god at all. He always spoke in the name of the God of Israel.

That prophet shall die can have many meanings. It could be that the prophet could be spiritually dead (meaning, being cut-off from the presence of the Lord), or that the Lord will strike that man down and kill him, or that he'll die instead of something else.

It never specifically says when this 'false prophet' will die or how.

Comet · Jun 24, 2006

Excuse me, comet. But if you look at my profile, I am list myself as an "agnostic", but called myself a "gnostic". It is pun that I am not sorry for.

Previously, I was at islam dot com, where I couldn't use the name agnostic, so I used gnostic as my nic. When I came here at RF, I had decided to continue to use this same name, even though the name agnostic is available. It's fun to play the enigma.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha....... That is funny! My apology to you as well! ha ha ha. I don't get to the profiles as much as I should! I hope you at least see the humor in this whole debate since I am sure to get more Biblical verses rattled off at me! ha ha ha ha ha, you are bad and funny! Its okay- the a couple of the other debates I have actually engaged in here were "PRO-disease" and "Say what you will about humans, but leave the cats out of it"!

Why not through Elijah on that list?

If it means anything you can look up the word "Appellative"

Only because you say Joshua couldn't possibly be a prophet, and I think otherwise and know otherwise, that Joshua was a true prophet of the Lord.

I don't deny he is a prophet in the sence you speak of, but I say he isn't THE ONE MOSES SPOKE OF........

Bishka · Jun 24, 2006

Joshua 4:14 - (with the word fear in there)

14. On that day the Lord magnified

{reference this over to Joshua 3:7 where it reads, 'And the Lord said unto Joshua, This day will I begin to magnify thee in the sight of all Israel, that they may know that, as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee' -coming directly out of the Lord's mouth, the Lord explicitly states that He is going to be with Joshua, just as He {The Lord} was with Moses)

Joshua in the sight of all Israel; and the feared him, as they feared Moses, all the days of his life.

THE VERSE AGAIN INTERJECTING RESPECT INTO IT

13. On that day the Lord maginfied Joshua in the sight of all Israel; and they RESPECTED HIM, and they RESPECTED MOSES, all the days of his life.

Deut 18:22

"When a prophet spaketh in the name of the Lord.."

WHEN THE PROPHET SPEAKS IN THE NAME OF THE LORD, IF THE PROPHECY DOES NOT COME TO PASS OR IF WHAT HE SAYS DOES NOT HAPPEN

"that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken.."
THE LORD DID NOT SAY IT, IT WAS NOT GIVEN TO THAT MAN BY THE LORD

"but the prophet hath spoken it presumptously.."

PRESUMPTOUS - GOING BEYOND WHAT IS RIGHT OR PROPER.
THIS PROPHET WENT BEYOND WHAT THE LORD TOLD HIM TO DO AND AS A FALLIABLE MAN SPOKE.

"thou shalt not be afraid of him."

DON'T BE AFRAID OF THIS PROPHET, HE CAN'T HURT YOU OR CURSE YOUR OR BLESS YOU BECAUSE HE DOES NOT HAVE THE POWER OF THE LORD WITH HIM

There, I explained it a bit better.

Comet · Jun 24, 2006

beckysoup61 said:
Mine reads just the same, and I have said over and over again, how does this prove Joshua to be a false prophet? Joshua did not presume to speak a word in the Lord's name without the Lord asking Joshua to or commanding Joshua too.

Joshua never spoke in the name of another god at all. He always spoke in the name of the God of Israel.

That prophet shall die can have many meanings. It could be that the prophet could be spiritually dead (meaning, being cut-off from the presence of the Lord), or that the Lord will strike that man down and kill him, or that he'll die instead of something else.

It never specifically says when this 'false prophet' will die or how.

If it reads the same and Joshua died, I can only assume since he was a prophet that he was false for he did die and thus: He pressumed to speak the word of God or spoke the words of another god.

Elijah did not die, he went to heaven..... so I can't assume him a false prophet by Deut 18, but only the one Moses spoke of.

Bishka · Jun 24, 2006

Comet said:
I don't deny he is a prophet in the sence you speak of, but I say he isn't THE ONE MOSES SPOKE OF........

You say that Joshua was a false prophet though, but you haven't shown how Elijah has fufilled it. Those verses of his miracles mean little-to-nothing if you don't explain them and how it has to do with the fufilling of the prophecy.

I have given NUMEROUS verses where the Lord speaks directly to Joshua, and then in the book of Joshua I've given numerous verses of how Joshua is compared to Moses.

Bishka · Jun 24, 2006

Comet said:
If it reads the same and Joshua died, I can only assume since he was a prophet that he was false for he did die and thus: He pressumed to speak the word of God or spoke the words of another god.

How can you assume this, you still haven't proven how that 'died' verse shows that joshua wasn't the prophet Moses was talking about. You just say, because he died. Like I mentioned, it could be a spiritual death and not a physical death.

Moses died

Deut. 34:5 said:
5.So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord.

7 And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated

Joshua dies, and is only 10 years younger then Moses when he dies.

Joshua 24:29 said:
29. And it came to pass after these things, that Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of the Lord, died, being an hundred and ten years old.

Gideon died

Judges 8:32 said:
And Gideo the son of Joash died in a good old age, and was buried n the sepulchre of Joash his father, in Ophrah of the Abi-ezrites

Oh and Gideon I believe was a spokesperson for the Lord (Judges 6:22)

Eli died (1 Samuel 25:1)

Elisha the prophet died (2 Kings 13:14, 20)

Saul died, although he was never a prophet, it specifically mentioned that he died because he sinned, it never mentions that on the other prophets. (1 Chronicles 10:13)

Job died (42:17)

Hananiah died (Jeremiah 28:17)

All these prophets & one king died, yet it says nothing about them being false prophets or not being the prophet that Moses prophecied of. Oddly enough, it never says anywhere in any of Elijah's writing that he is the one Moses prophesied of.

Although it explicitly states, several times that Joshua is like unto Moses.

comet said:
Elijah did not die, he went to heaven..... so I can't assume him a false prophet by Deut 18, but only the one Moses spoke of.

Remind me of the book, chapter, and verse where it says that Elijah did not die again...

kai · Jun 24, 2006

as usual with the bible it can be anybody you want it to be,we can weed out some because god said he would kill false prophets so they are out, i am no expert but i would say it had to be someone contemporary or near in time to the writer. oh and we have the reference to "other gods" again

Bishka · Jun 24, 2006

kai said:
as usual with the bible it can be anybody you want it to be,

At some points in the Bible, yes, and at others, it is specifically stated that it will be certain person, place thing.

kai said:
we can weed out some because god said he would kill false prophets so they are out,

So what would be your qualifications for 'dying' or 'killing' in regards to these false prophets.

Also, are they just false prophets according to the prophecy, or are they false prophets all around.

kai said:
i am no expert but i would say it had to be someone contemporary or near in time to the writer.

I'm pretty much almost totally in agreeance on this part

kai said:
oh and we have the reference to "other gods" again

Which part are you referring to?

kai · Jun 24, 2006

beckysoup61 said:
So what would be your qualifications for 'dying' or 'killing' in regards to these false prophets.

Also, are they just false prophets according to the prophecy, or are they false prophets all around.

Which part are you referring to?

in my bible it says
" but any prophet who falsely claims that his message is from me shall die"
"and any prophet who claims to give a message from other gods must die"

Moses' new prophet

Who do you think is Moses' promised prophet in Deuteronomy 18?

Joshua

Samuel

Elijah

Elisha

Isaiah

Jeremiah

Ezekiel

Daniel

John the Baptist

Jesus

Muhammad

Joseph Smith

The prophet is yet to come.

None of them.

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