• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Moses' new prophet

Who do you think is Moses' promised prophet in Deuteronomy 18?


  • Total voters
    16

Bishka

Veteran Member
Comet said:
"like me" spoken by Moses.....

Matthew 17 1-4

I believe there is another passage in Luke somewhere that makes reference to Moses-Elijah-Jesus.........

(thank you for the passages, I learn so much from others who know more than I on a subject)

You mean this?

Matthew 17:1-4 said:

11. AND after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
spacer.gif

document.write(drawVerse(2,75570));
2.javascript:selectVerse(2,75570); 2And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
spacer.gif

document.write(drawVerse(3,75571));3. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Eliastalking with him.
spacer.gif

document.write(drawVerse(4,75572));4. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

I am not discounting Elias/Elijah as a prophet at all, but this verse does show anything other then he was in fact a prophet, it does not allude that he was the one Moses was talking about, he could have been, but it does not say.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Comet said:
Where does Joshua do what is set forth as the criteria of this debate? Deuteronony 18.

From the LDS Guide to the scriptures

GS said:


Joshua
  1. An Old Testament prophet and leader, and the successor of Moses. He was born in Egypt before the children of Israel escaped (Num. 14: 26-31). He and Caleb were among the twelve spies sent to Canaan. They alone gave a good report of the land (Num.13:8, 17; 14:10) . He died at the age of 110 (Josh 24:29) Joshua was a great example of a devout prophet-warrior.
 

Comet

Harvey Wallbanger
REMEMBER LDS VIEWPOINT**

You qouted a jewish site..... you can't take one and deny the other. What is it the Jewish faith says of Christ......... do they not believe in the OT (Deut 18) as well?

Deut 31:4 would be a great verse to read over. Usually when people are presented in the tabernacle it is for a preisthood purpose or some kind of calling. One could assume since Joshua was called to the tabernacle and given a charge, that, that charge was to be the Prophet for the people.

Ok.... but how then does he meet the requirments set forth in all of Deut 18? Even the people ask there how they should tell the difference of God's prophet Moses spoke of and the others......... Did Joshua die? Did Joshua prophecize and have it come true to show the people he spoke the word of God???????

If you also read Deut. 34:9, it says that Moses laid his hands about Joshua, which usually means a transferrence of power and authority, which, in my opinion, is a prophet.

Transferrence of power and authority... aka LEADERSHIP as I have stated. Show me the "prophet" aspect rellevent to Deut 18 please. The laying on of hands is also a Gnostic belief which the modern church called a heresy and erradicated as best it could..........
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
In Deut. 18:18 it states

Deut 18:18 said:
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethen...

This is talking about the Israelites at that time, and Joshua was among them as their brethren.

Deut 18:18 said:
...and will put my words in his mouth...

There is several times that Joshua speaks as the mouthpiece of the Lord. If you read in Joshua 1:1 it reads

Joshua 1:1 said:
Now after the death of Moses the servant of the Lord it came to pass, that the Lord spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister, saying

It says right there in Deut. that the Lord will speak through His servant, and in the very first verse of Joshua, the Lord does.
 

Comet

Harvey Wallbanger
beckysoup61 said:
I am not discounting Elias/Elijah as a prophet at all, but this verse does show anything other then he was in fact a prophet, it does not allude that he was the one Moses was talking about, he could have been, but it does not say.

Yes, but you miss the relevance of Elijah's story. The "likeness" in his life to Moses' life. He was a prophet, one point taken then. Who was Moses talking about then? If it was Jesus, then why should he appear with ELIJAH in this passage? That is my question to the Jesus answerers of this poll.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Comet said:
You qouted a jewish site..... you can't take one and deny the other.

I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I am not denying anything. I am relying on the translation that I believe and various scriptures. It wasn't a site, it was a book.

Comet said:
What is it the Jewish faith says of Christ......... do they not believe in the OT (Deut 18) as well?

They do not believe that Christ fufills the requiremtns for being the promised and prophesied Messiah. I do, but that's another story..who is right on this one?


Comet said:
Did Joshua die?
Yep, at 110 year of age.

Comet said:
Did Joshua prophecize and have it come true to show the people he spoke the word of God???????

A prophet doesn't necessarily have to prophecy of the future to be classfied as a prophet. A prophet is the Lord's mouthpiece for His people. The prophet is not prophecying what he wants, but it is the Lord's will for the prophet to speak.


Comet said:
Transferrence of power and authority... aka LEADERSHIP as I have stated.

No, transferrence of power and authority of the preisthood, or did you miss that? Do you not understand that the tabernacle was the center of the camp, and that all preisthood ordinances happened there?

Comet said:
Show me the "prophet" aspect rellevent to Deut 18 please. The laying on of hands is also a Gnostic belief which the modern church called a heresy and erradicated as best it could..........

It's not just a 'gnostic' belief. There are Christian sects that believe in the laying of hands for healing, and authority of preisthood, mine being just one of them.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Elijah would have been my 2nd choice, had the poll allow me to pick a 2nd person in the list of possibilities.

Since beckysoup had already the question of Joshua being a "prophet" or not, I don't need to point out the verses.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Comet said:
Yes, but you miss the relevance of Elijah's story. The "likeness" in his life to Moses' life. He was a prophet, one point taken then. Who was Moses talking about then? If it was Jesus, then why should he appear with ELIJAH in this passage? That is my question to the Jesus answerers of this poll.

I'm not missing the relevance of Elijah's story. Yes, he may be like Moses, but so were other prophets.

Comet said:
1- The Drought: (1K.17).


Yes, there was a drought in the land with Moses
Comet said:
2- Fed by Ravens: (1K.17).
When was Moses fed by ravens?

Comet said:
3- Increases the widow's of Serephath meal and oil 1K.17, Lk.4:26)
When did Moses do this?

Comet said:
4- Raises the widow's son (1K.17)
Again, when?

Comet said:
5- Fire from heaven: Victory over the priests of Baal: (1K.18)
This coule be comparable to Moses

Comet said:
6- The Rain comes back: (1K.18)
Connection?

Comet said:
7- Fed by an angel, twice (1K.19)

Connection?

Comet said:
8- A gentle whisper of God at mount Sinai, (1K.19)
I see the connection there.

Comet said:
9- The dogs eat Jezebel (1K.21, 2K.9)
Connection?

Comet said:
10- Fire from heaven, twice (2K.1)

I see a slight connection

Comet said:

11- Divides the Jordan River (2K.2)

I see this one.

Comet said:
12- Elijah carried by a whirlwind into heaven, following a chariot of fire (2K.2)

When did this happen to Moses?

Anywho, what I'm trying to point out is, a Joshua and any other 'prophet' did not have to be like Moses in every single way. That verse never specifies that Joshua or any other prophet had to perform miracles at all, or if they did, not even in the same way as Moses.

When it says "like unto thee", I believe it is just referring to Moses as prophet. Like unto thee=a prophet.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Another verse in Joshua the Lord states directly to Joshua.

Joshua 1:5 said:
There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all thy days of thy life: as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee: I will not fail thee, nor forsake thee
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Joshua 1:16-17 said:
16. And they answered Joshua, saying, All that thou commandest us we will do, and whithersoever thou sendest us, we will go.

17. According as we hearkened unto Moses in all{notice this please, ALL THINGS} things, so we hearken unto thee; only the Lord thy God be with thee, as he was with Moses

This is also another verse.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Another one:

Joshua 3:9-10 said:
9. And Joshua said unto the children of Israel, Come hither and hear the words of the Lord your God.
10. And Joshua said, Hereby ye shall know that the living God is among you....
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Another time that the Lord speaks directly to Joshua:

Joshua 4:1 said:
1. And it came to pass, when all the peopl were clean passed over Jodan, that the Lord spake unto Joshua saying.....
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Oh and here is a 'prophecy' or a 'sign' that Joshua says will come from the Lord

Joshua 4:5-7 said:
5. And Joshua said unto them, Pass over before the ark of the Lord your God into the midst of Jordan, and take ye up every man of you a stone upon his shoulder, according unto the number of tribes of the children of Israel.

6. That this may be a sign among you, that when your children ask their fathers in time to come, saying, What mean ye by these stones?

7. Then ye shall naswer them, That the waters of Jordan were cutt off before the ark of the covenant of the Lord; when it passed over Jordan, the waters of Jordan were cut off: and these stones shall be fore a memorial unto the children of Israel forever.

This is in direct commandment of the Lord in Joshua 4:1-3 just right before this passage.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
In the King James' version:
The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me....

"...from the midst of you...." and "...of thy brethren...." indicates that the new prophet would be among them, who are now present. Joshua was among them, but not Elijah, Jeremiah, Ezekial or Jesus.

"...like unto me..." could refer to Moses being both leader and prophet, which is what the Israelites would need to lead them into Canaan.

He doesn't need to provide the miracles. Did Elijah part the sea of reed (or Red Sea)? No. Nor did Joshua. So I don't see your point that the new prophet have to be exactly like Moses, but you chooses to ignore the other half of the passage, where a prophet would be raised among Moses' brethren.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Joshua 4:14

Joshua 4:14 said:
On that day the Lord magnified Joshua in the sight of all Isarel; and they feared {respected} him, as they feared{respected} Moses, all the days of his life.

You can cross-reference the word magnify in this verse to a previous verse Joshua 3:7
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
gnostic said:
In the King James' version:


"...from the midst of you...." and "...of thy brethren...." indicates that the new prophet would be among them, who are now present. Joshua was among them, but not Elijah, Jeremiah, Ezekial or Jesus.

"...like unto me..." could refer to Moses being both leader and prophet, which is what the Israelites would need to lead them into Canaan.

He doesn't need to provide the miracles. Did Elijah part the sea of reed (or Red Sea)? No. Nor did Joshua. So I don't see your point that the new prophet have to be exactly like Moses, but you chooses to ignore the other half of the passage, where a prophet would be raised among Moses' brethren.

This isn't at me, correct?
 

gnostic

The Lost One
No, at Comet, since he is favoring Elijah. You have done very good work in putting your argument forward on Joshua. Better than mine. :bow:
 

Comet

Harvey Wallbanger
Lots of Joshua based on a sentence of Deut 18....... let's look at more of it now:

Deut 18: 20

Yep, at 110 year of age.

Did Elijah die????


A prophet doesn't necessarily have to prophecy of the future to be classfied as a prophet. A prophet is the Lord's mouthpiece for His people. The prophet is not prophecying what he wants, but it is the Lord's will for the prophet to speak.

We speak not of "a prophet" but of the one Moses spoke of. Deut 18: 22


I see Elijah fits all of Deut 18 and Joshua does not.
 

Comet

Harvey Wallbanger
On that day the Lord magnified Joshua in the sight of all Isarel; and they feared {respected} him, as they feared{respected} Moses, all the days of his life.

Feared him..... again Deut 18:22
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
Comet said:
Lots of Joshua based on a sentence of Deut 18....... let's look at more of it now

How so? Would you care to explaing this?



Deut 18: 20[/QUOTE]

Reads, "But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, wchi I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die."

I think the Lord is saying, anyone who tries to speak without proper authority shall be struck down. I don't believe this is pertaining to the end of their mortal lives. There are several instances in which the Lord commands Joshua to do something.


Comet said:
Did Elijah die????

No, but Moses did.

Deut. 34:5
Deut 34:1 said:
5. So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according the the word of the Lord.
 
Top