Hawk Flint
Member
How do Jews interpret Genesis 19:1-11, the story of Lot offering his daughters up to rapists?
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Lot
- Thread starter Hawk Flint
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Tumah
Veteran Member
Can you explain what needs clarification?
Akivah
Well-Known Member
Any given portion of the bible has multiple meanings and interpretations. For instance, here is a interpretation by Rabbi Ari Kahn at aish.com
M'oray Ha'Aish Parshat Vayeira: The Chief Rabbi Of Sodom
M'oray Ha'Aish Parshat Vayeira: The Chief Rabbi Of Sodom
Hawk Flint
Member
Lot was considered a righteous person, but produced an action that was seen as evil in Judges 19-20. So I've come to a conclusion that he was about to sin to protect the visitors. But why would he resort to that? Is there some reason that he would do that? Some custom to protect visitors no matter what?
RabbiO
הרב יונה בן זכריה
ראה לוט שהיו אנשי סדום שטופין בזמה בחר בסדום להיות עושה כמעשיהן, מנין שכן הוא אומר להם לאנשי סדום הנה נא לי שתי בנות וגו' בנוהג שבעולם אדם מוסר עצמו ליהרג על בנותיו ועל אשתו והורג או נהרג, וזה מוסר בנותיו להתעולל בהם
According to the midrash, basically, Lot settled in Sodom because he wanted to live the life of sin that the folks there lived. We know this because he said to the people, hey guys I've got these 2 daughters.... What one would expect from a father normally would be for him to protect his daughters, even at the cost of his own life, but instead he is willing to turn them over to the hordes at the door.
Was that helpful?
Last edited:
Hawk Flint
Member
Well, I'm in the process of learning Hebrew (I've got a primer and my notebook right next to me right now), but I can't read it yet. I only know a couple words in hebrew (שלום, the name of the Lord, and אח). I used Google translator and got,
"Lot saw were the people of Sodom Tofino scheme Select Sodom be doing their actions, where as he tells them to Sodom Behold I have two daughters, etc. "moral man accustomed himself killed his daughters and his wife and kills or killed, and it is removed daughters Lhtaoll them."
I highly doubt that Google was correct in this. Could you give an English translation of what you said?
RabbiO
הרב יונה בן זכריה
See my edited post.
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
Because he wasn't a good person anymore. He lived among depraved people and little by little his morals were changed.
Suddenly it was fair game to offer his own daughters to random people.
And then his daughters turned it around and also became depraved.
I never get the criticism of this story, its not as if Lot's actions are held in high regard among Jews.
Tumah
Veteran Member
He offered his daughters to be raped, chose to live in a community where everyone wants to rape his daughters or his guests, and eventually committed incest with his daughters.
I don't think we have the same views on what constitutes righteousness.
Hawk Flint
Member
Thank you. I was thinking that he was sinning as well.
Thank you as well. I'm not criticizing the story; I chit chat with atheists and this topic came up. So I wondered if Jews had any additional information about it.
How might the function/worth of daughters at that time and in that culture differ from that presumed by a 21st century Western reader?
Hawk Flint
Member
I think it's the complete turning from righteousness that makes a righteous person unrighteous. As in, one or fifty sins doesn't make one unrighteous unless they don't ever repent. But I digress.
Hawk Flint
Member
Something I plan to research.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Fair enough. Can you point me to some events that depict Lot as being righteous?
Hawk Flint
Member
Genesis 19:9 They said, “Stand back!” Then they said, "This one fellow came in to live as a foreigner, and he appoints himself a judge." I assumed that a judge was someone righteous. Why would he be judging people? Because they were unrighteous and he was righteous is what I think.
Also, God gave him mercy after saying that the wicked would perish. This seems to indicate that, while he (Lot) was losing his righteousness due to his living among evil people, he still retained it. David's sins didn't make him unrighteous; "Though the righteous fall seven times, they get back up". Though, this verse may be taken out of context so...
If I may, I think he may be thinking of a New Testament verse. 2 Peter, 2:7 "and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked."
rosends
Well-Known Member
I don't think that that means that Lot was righteous, only that, according to the people in the city saw him as an outsider who was helping visitors so they got defensive. If you don;t start with an expectation that he is righteous, his later behavior doesn't seem out of character.
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
As @rosends said this doesn't mean what you think it means.
Lot went to the city and became a Judge. But a Judge is not equivalent with a righteous person, history has proven that much.
In the beginning he perhaps thought that he could change the people there, but he couldn't. Instead he was affected by their moral standards and gave up his daughters to be raped.
The story sort of mimics Abraham and the Angels who visited him. The difference being that Abraham didn't move to a wicked city and thus wasn't affected by its morals and temptations.
I see it as a last chance. Pretty much a "get your **** together".
Well first his wife didn't pass the test. And then everything escalated rather quickly.
And then? The story of Lot is over. With his daughters he fathers nations that would become the enemies of Israel.
The gig is up.
I offer a possible alternative interpretation, not to suggest that this is the correct interpretation, but I think it works. If anyone sees a logical flaw let me know.
I suggest that when Lot said "here, take my two virgin daughters" he was being sarcastic, and the men he was talking to understood this as sarcasm. It is like saying "burn down my house why don't cha"
(the Bible does not have emojis). The men got angry when lot said this thing. Maybe they were not angered by the words, but by the tone that he use.
Just after this, there are references to Lot's two daughters, seeming to state that he had only two daughters. That may be open to interpretation, but this is how it reads to me. And more to the point it refers to these two daughters and their husbands! It seems from the way I read it Lot did not have any virgin daughters.
Am I reading it wrong?
I suggest that when Lot said "here, take my two virgin daughters" he was being sarcastic, and the men he was talking to understood this as sarcasm. It is like saying "burn down my house why don't cha"
(the Bible does not have emojis). The men got angry when lot said this thing. Maybe they were not angered by the words, but by the tone that he use.
Just after this, there are references to Lot's two daughters, seeming to state that he had only two daughters. That may be open to interpretation, but this is how it reads to me. And more to the point it refers to these two daughters and their husbands! It seems from the way I read it Lot did not have any virgin daughters.
Am I reading it wrong?
Hawk Flint
Member
Well yes, I am a christian. But I'm a biblical, Torah observant one at least.
True. But if he was righteous, then his behavior doesn't mean that he wasn't righteous, but that his righteousness was deteriorating over time (I have some personal experience with this I admit to my shame). Ezekiel 18:24 seems at first to indicate that one sin equals unrighteousness (at least, the English translation does. I haven't read it in Hebrew) but it first says that there is a turning from righteousness. But that is my personal interpretation of it. After all, everyone sins intentionally or unintentionally at some point.
Well, I meant a judge like Gideon. Someone like that would try to cause people to repent right? But to evil people who don't want to change their ways and want to stay in their sins it would seem like "judging" to point out sins. I agree that his behavior might of been deteriorating. There is a reason God says to put the evil out from among us. We may fall into evil just like it seemed Lot was.
I'm kinda in agreement.