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Evidence for and against young earth creationism.

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Brian Schuh

Well-Known Member
Shad said:
No when an idea and it's argument are flawed, incoherent, based on fallacious ideas and unsupported pointing this out is not ridicule.
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When I hear an xtian talk of trinities and virgin births and a human sacrifice atoning for the world's sin, I am tempted to ridicule such nonsense, but I don't. They are beliefs they hold dear. And these pagan beliefs Xtians believe is not due to lack of intelligence or education. So attacking their creed or using personal attacks doesn't lead to any positive criticism nor a legitimate debate.
 
Shad

Shad

Veteran Member
Brian Schuh said:
When I hear an xtian talk of trinities and virgin births and a human sacrifice atoning for the world's sin, I am tempted to ridicule such nonsense, but I don't.
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You are making argument for your belief in a thread requesting such.

They are beliefs they hold dear.
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So? If they do not want their ideas and beliefs criticized do not post in a debate thread. There are DIRs for it.

And these pagan beliefs Xtians believe is not due to lack of intelligence or education.
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I never said either about your beliefs but your arguments for said belief.

So attacking their creed or using personal attacks doesn't lead to any positive criticism nor a legitimate debate.
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Again you are in a debate thread. When you state an argument that has flaws it will reflect on you as you are making, or copying, an argument you think is correct. You simply do not like criticism of any kind and have emotional reactions when someone points out mistakes in your argument. You do not like how your poor argument reflect upon you as a person so become emotional. Nothing more.
 
B

Brian Schuh

Well-Known Member
Shad said:
You are making argument for your belief in a thread requesting such.



So? If they do not want their ideas and beliefs criticized do not post in a debate thread. There are DIRs for it.



I never said either about your beliefs but your arguments for said belief.



Again you are in a debate thread. When you state an argument that has flaws it will reflect on you as you are making, or copying, an argument you think is correct. You simply do not like criticism of any kind and have emotional reactions when someone points out mistakes in your argument. Nothing more.
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What difference does it make if we evolved from primordial ooze, or if aliens genetically engineered us or if there is a Creator?

This website advertises a FRIENDLY place to DISCUSS and debate.
 
B

Brian Schuh

Well-Known Member
Shad said:
You are making argument for your belief in a thread requesting such.



So? If they do not want their ideas and beliefs criticized do not post in a debate thread. There are DIRs for it.



I never said either about your beliefs but your arguments for said belief.



Again you are in a debate thread. When you state an argument that has flaws it will reflect on you as you are making, or copying, an argument you think is correct. You simply do not like criticism of any kind and have emotional reactions when someone points out mistakes in your argument. You do not like how your poor argument reflect upon you as a person so become emotional. Nothing more.
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I bow out of this debate. Next time.
 
Shad

Shad

Veteran Member
Brian Schuh said:
What difference does it make if we evolved from primordial ooze, or if aliens genetically engineered us or if there is a Creator?
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There are implication such as morality and purpose, code of conduct, beliefs in X or Y. There is a history of the creator side using government power to dictate what people thought and made it a crime to think otherwise. Communism used the same methods the religious had used for centuries. So if there is a Creator all sorts of religions will rush to identify their specific God with a Creator, which has been done for centuries.

Give an inch and they'll take a yard

This website advertises a FRIENDLY place to DISCUSS and debate.
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There is no friendly way of saying someone is wrong or their argument is horrible. It is either subtle or blunt. I go with blunt.
 
B

Brian Schuh

Well-Known Member
Shad said:
That is fine.
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Next time we should start a thread about the implications of creation or evolution and how that can be a motivation for how one believes. I imagine there are immoral people whose motivation is to disprove creation so they won't have to repent of their immoral conduct. But that is for another thread and another debate.

Good debating with you.
 
Shad

Shad

Veteran Member
Brian Schuh said:
Next time we should start a thread about the implications of creation or evolution and how that can be a motivation for how one believes. I imagine there are immoral people whose motivation is to disprove creation so they won't have to repent of their immoral conduct. But that is for another thread and another debate.
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That motivate will be hard to establish.
 
SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Brian Schuh said:
Next time we should start a thread about the implications of creation or evolution and how that can be a motivation for how one believes. I imagine there are immoral people whose motivation is to disprove creation so they won't have to repent of their immoral conduct. But that is for another thread and another debate.

Good debating with you.
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I see Christians say things like this quite often but I've never actually seen it played out in real life.
 
B

Brian Schuh

Well-Known Member
This is a joke that all evolutionists who been screwed over by their attorney can appreciate. . .

Attorneys are like sharks, neither one has evolved in 65 million years.

Okay, joke time over. As you were.
 
B

Brian Schuh

Well-Known Member
SkepticThinker said:
Um, okay?
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Why do you assume creationists are all ignorant Southern Baptists? Why is it that an evolutionist asked me if I graduated high school? Why is it I am stereotyped according to the creationists you have already met?

I am of the Jewish orthodoxy and ultra-orthodox at that. 1 of the 613 laws of the prophet Moshe (Moses) says not to even entertain any concept that runs counter to our tradition. And as it doesn't amount to a hill of beans to the financial well being of my family if you are right or not, I don't care. I just find it entertaining that y'all hold to Darwin almost closer than I hold to Moses.
 
SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Brian Schuh said:
Why do you assume creationists are all ignorant Southern Baptists? Why is it that an evolutionist asked me if I graduated high school? Why is it I am stereotyped according to the creationists you have already met?

I am of the Jewish orthodoxy and ultra-orthodox at that. 1 of the 613 laws of the prophet Moshe (Moses) says not to even entertain any concept that runs counter to our tradition. And as it doesn't amount to a hill of beans to the financial well being of my family if you are right or not, I don't care. I just find it entertaining that y'all hold to Darwin almost closer than I hold to Moses.
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I don't. What makes you think I do?
I have seen many people who identify themselves as Christians, say the sort of thing I highlighted in that post and I was stating as much.

What is an "evolutionist?" Are there also gravitationists?

People who accept evolution are not worshiping Darwin in any way or holding him close or whatever. Darwin is long gone and evolutionary theory has come a long way since he first proposed it.
 
Milton Platt

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Brian Schuh said:
Okay. October 2nd at sundown, I begin to celebrate Rosh HaShanah. Humankind will be 5777 years old. 1656 years after Adam and Eve were created, the Flood happened. So 4121 years ago, the earth was destroyed by a Flood.

This is not an argument about creation versus evolution. This is an argument for and against a young earth. I opened up my mind a little and researched evidence of civilizations older than 4121 years, and even older than 5777 years.

I accept that a proper understanding of Genesis 1 doesn't preclude a lengthy period of time for creation. That the 6 days prior to Adam being created time didn't pass at the same rate it does now.

So what I'm saying is, produce for me evidence that can't be denied, that if there was a global flood, that it was significantly longer than 4121 years ago. Or produce for me evidence that can't be denied that civilizations existed prior to 5777 years ago.

Again, this is not an argument about evolution versus creation, but rather an argument about how old is human civilization.
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I do not see how you can avoid the evolution argument, since most anyone will correctly tell you that the evolution and branching out into the millions of different organisms of today (with more having gone extinct than currently exist) cannot be accomplished in 6,000 years.

That aside, the fact, if true, that the word earth meant land, that still would mean all land, would it not? What in the passages this word is in would limit it to only a middle-eastern desert? Are you also going to assert that all the living things that existed lived only in the middle east at that time? If so, explain the fossil records that are found world wide.
 
B

Brian Schuh

Well-Known Member
Milton Platt said:
I do not see how you can avoid the evolution argument, since most anyone will correctly tell you that the evolution and branching out into the millions of different organisms of today (with more having gone extinct than currently exist) cannot be accomplished in 6,000 years.

That aside, the fact, if true, that the word earth meant land, that still would mean all land, would it not? What in the passages this word is in would limit it to only a middle-eastern desert? Are you also going to assert that all the living things that existed lived only in the middle east at that time? If so, explain the fossil records that are found world wide.
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I only have to explain how the millions of species came to exist from the ones that survived the great flood. I, although I don't deny the evolutionary process, don't understand why you don't see that God created all the different kinds of animals. The evolutionary process and creation are not mutually exclusive.
 
B

Brian Schuh

Well-Known Member
Milton Platt said:
I do not see how you can avoid the evolution argument, since most anyone will correctly tell you that the evolution and branching out into the millions of different organisms of today (with more having gone extinct than currently exist) cannot be accomplished in 6,000 years.

That aside, the fact, if true, that the word earth meant land, that still would mean all land, would it not? What in the passages this word is in would limit it to only a middle-eastern desert? Are you also going to assert that all the living things that existed lived only in the middle east at that time? If so, explain the fossil records that are found world wide.
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After demonstrating to me the facts of the evolutionary process, okay- all life is evolving and has evolved since the beginning of time 5777 years ago when God created all life with enough genetic diversity to bring about the myriads of species today.
 
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