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Hypertedical question: What if?

look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Well humans are animals also, Yes I love Osho and I agree with him on that. Yes we are not made in his image as the human body, we are made in his likeness of Consciousness, because we are truly Consciousness, or the Source, in that way we are made.
I would say creatures over animals. The only reason I can think for the reference to humans being labeled as animals is bad behavior.
But as creatures
AJ,

Thanks for your post....

I doubt most would agree that God has raised us (human beings) as "...a god in the flesh". Having a "soul" does not equate as a "god". Having a soul may suggest we have a greater responsibility to our fellow men and also that our role is more to care for the earth and it's creatures rather than pollute and destroy habitats.

I'll share here a few quotes from Baha'i sources:

When asked about the individual persistence of the animal's personality after death, 'Abdu'l-Bahá said: "Even the most developed dog has not the immortal soul of the man; yet the dog is perfect in its own place. You do not quarrel with a rose-tree because it cannot sing!"

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 97

"Until man is born again from the world of nature, that is to say, becomes detached from the world of nature, he is essentially an animal, and it is the teachings of God which converts this animal into a human soul."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith, p. 289
I would agree with ( ~ Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 97) as far as not having a mortal soul. ( Mortal.... as being that the human soul can not see spiritual death) Both animals and humans are mortal....both die in the flesh.

On the second verse you quoted I can somewhat agree with. I question the following: First the word "detached" co-notates a merited response placing the responsibility of being born again squarely on the individual. My understanding is that we had no choice in being separated in the first place. That responsibility was owed to the creator to remedy.

Secondly, classifying both animals and humans as animals (he is essentially an animal) can not be stated as such because animals cannot differentiate between what is good or evil.

"Created in the image of God" does not rest on the physical but rather on the divine nature of the human spirit. The creation spirit was to ADAM and continued to the offspring. The creation process had as a consequence...separation. No fault of humanity.
Here is where the re-birth, as you quoted, enters.
The question is when was that enabled to happen? The billions of souls who lived and died that had no clue of an existence of God could not have the same opportunity as you and I have today.

Thirdly, "...a god in the flesh" separates us from God.

Blessings, AJ
 

look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Well humans are animals also, Yes I love Osho and I agree with him on that. Yes we are not made in his image as the human body, we are made in his likeness of Consciousness, because we are truly Consciousness, or the Source, in that way we are made.
If by consciousness you mean having the ability to define the differences between what is good and what is evil?

Blessings, AJ
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
I would say creatures over animals. The only reason I can think for the reference to humans being labeled as animals is bad behavior.
But as creatures

I would agree with ( ~ Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 97) as far as not having a mortal soul. ( Mortal.... as being that the human soul can not see spiritual death) Both animals and humans are mortal....both die in the flesh.

On the second verse you quoted I can somewhat agree with. I question the following: First the word "detached" co-notates a merited response placing the responsibility of being born again squarely on the individual. My understanding is that we had no choice in being separated in the first place. That responsibility was owed to the creator to remedy.

Secondly, classifying both animals and humans as animals (he is essentially an animal) can not be stated as such because animals cannot differentiate between what is good or evil.

"Created in the image of God" does not rest on the physical but rather on the divine nature of the human spirit. The creation spirit was to ADAM and continued to the offspring. The creation process had as a consequence...separation. No fault of humanity.
Here is where the re-birth, as you quoted, enters.
The question is when was that enabled to happen? The billions of souls who lived and died that had no clue of an existence of God could not have the same opportunity as you and I have today.

Thirdly, "...a god in the flesh" separates us from God.

Blessings, AJ
No we are animals like it or not, and I have to say we are the worse animals on the face of this planet, religion being one of the main causes.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
If by consciousness you mean having the ability to define the differences between what is good and what is evil?

Blessings, AJ
Consciousness is the Source of all, we arise from the Source and at death we melt back into it, there is only Consciousness, there is no separation. We are like the waves on the ocean, believing we are separate from the ocean, when the wave comes to its end it emerges back into the ocean, and all is One.
 

look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
No we are animals like it or not, and I have to say we are the worse animals on the face of this planet, religion being one of the main causes.
Define for me please the difference between an animal and a human being as far as conscience knowing the difference between good and evil.

Blessings, AJ
 

look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Consciousness is the Source of all, we arise from the Source and at death we melt back into it, there is only Consciousness, there is no separation. We are like the waves on the ocean, believing we are separate from the ocean, when the wave comes to its end it emerges back into the ocean, and all is One.

In other words, existence is merely a temporary existence on earth? Nothing more, nothing less? No existence of a personal nature in an afterlife existence?

Blessings, AJ
 

look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I've seen disloyal, mistrustful, disobedient, aggressive dogs which have killed out of that aggression or for sport. So I don't think giving it human attributes is necessary for any of those traits. And I don't think those traits are uniquely or definitively human. Our intelligence just allows us to, when we decide to, go to extremes in those attributes unavailable to other animals.
Seems to me that giving a dog the ability to decipher good from evil would ruin the relationship mankind enjoys with dogs.

Blessing, AJ
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Define for me please the difference between an animal and a human being as far as conscience knowing the difference between good and evil.

Blessings, AJ
Good and evil only exist within our minds, its a concept that we follow just so as to get along with each other, animals also have certain traits and behaviors so as they get along with each other. We have a larger brain and that is all that separates us, but again its only because its in our minds, we make up all sorts of beliefs to make us feel safe, and religion is one of those beliefs, yes we as animals are very backward in that sense, we are very superstitious creatures.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
In other words, existence is merely a temporary existence on earth? Nothing more, nothing less? No existence of a personal nature in an afterlife existence?

Blessings, AJ
That's it, and why do we need more than that, no need to be greedy.
 

look3467

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Good and evil only exist within our minds, its a concept that we follow just so as to get along with each other, animals also have certain traits and behaviors so as they get along with each other. We have a larger brain and that is all that separates us, but again its only because its in our minds, we make up all sorts of beliefs to make us feel safe, and religion is one of those beliefs, yes we as animals are very backward in that sense, we are very superstitious creatures.
Your right! Good and evil does exist within our minds however, there also exists a God conciseness which allows us to be a law unto ourselves. We so decide which laws to follow and which ones not to. That is a gift animals can not share.

I have no qualms with your beliefs as is what you so desire to believe. Your desire to do good according to your conscience is acceptable......I believe by the Almighty.

Blessings, AJ
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Your right! Good and evil does exist within our minds however, there also exists a God conciseness which allows us to be a law unto ourselves. We so decide which laws to follow and which ones not to. That is a gift animals can not share.

I have no qualms with your beliefs as is what you so desire to believe. Your desire to do good according to your conscience is acceptable......I believe by the Almighty.

Blessings, AJ
Your right! Good and evil does exist within our minds however, there also exists a God conciseness which allows us to be a law unto ourselves. We so decide which laws to follow and which ones not to. That is a gift animals can not share.

I have no qualms with your beliefs as is what you so desire to believe. Your desire to do good according to your conscience is acceptable......I believe by the Almighty.

Blessings, AJ
That's fine, as long as we don't kill each other over it lol.:)
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
What if God were to give a dog a human soul, what suppose this dog would be like?
A. Still loyal?
B. Love without prejudice?
C. Obediant?
D. Do evil?
E. Do good?
F. Kind to other animals?
G. Submissive?
H. Become a killer/murderer?
Thank God he hasn't done that.

Your comments welcomed.

Blessings, AJ

He let demons posses pigs and the ran off a cliff. That's probably close to what would happen, because the good humans would get the super spirit bodies as their reward.
 
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