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"The Universe is Indifferent to Us": Fact or Opinion?

Do you think you can prove that the universe is deferential to us?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 24.1%

  • No

    Votes: 13 44.8%

  • Don't know/other/no opinion

    Votes: 9 31.0%
  • Total voters
    29
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Guy Threepwood said:
I'd say there is strong evidence that the universe is accommodating to us specifically
Click to expand...
What evidence? We can only occupy maybe .000000000001% of the total universe, if that, we are in the middle of a cosmic shooting gallery of asteroids and comets, there are black holes and planets billions of times larger than our own, and we are bombarded with radiation from the sun. As for our own Earth, not even it is very accommodating to us as we can only occupy a very small portion of it without any tremendous mechanical assistance. For most of it, we need equipment to breath, thick clothing to keep us warm, and plentiful amounts of water in storage containers, or we die. Most people on this planet, however, do not even have access to clean drinking water.
 
jeager106

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
Sunstone said:
Do you consider the notion that the universe is indifferent to us to be a fact or an opinion? By "indifferent", I mean that the universe does not care about you, and is neither against you nor for you.

If you consider the notion that the universe is indifferent to us to be a fact, do you also believe you could prove that it was indifferent to us? If so, how?

If you consider the notion that the universe is indifferent to us to be a mere opinion, do you also believe you could prove that it is deferential to us (that is, that it somehow sides for or against us)? If so, how?
Click to expand...


No the Universe does not care.
Care:
care1
/ker/
noun
  1. the provision of what is necessary for the health, welfare, maintenance, and protection of someone or something:
The universe is a vast, cold, place we humans still know little about.
But "care" is a term more fitting to human emotions.
The moon is the moon and orbits and does what it does and isn't
capable of emotion.
If the earth is struck by an asteroid and all life is destroyed I doubt the
asteroid "cared". It's a big rock after all.
You are trying to give human qualities or lack to a vast nothing with no "will".
When there was a young earth and if life originated by being bombarded
with space rocks that somehow caused life to begin then that was
a random event.
Luck for us I'd think.
Or perhaps some infinite Deity threw those space racks at earth with
the notion that sooner or later pond scum would spring into life
and one day humans would crawl out of that scum?
Or perhaps "God" got lonesome and made Adam and saw that
was a good thing and was pleased at His handiwork.
So he made a mate, a wo-man, for Adam and the world has been
in chaos ever since.
Methinks much of mankind is still living in that scum of the mind creating
the human condition.
Somehow man got the notion of "god" and has created murder and
suffering ever since.
Man created the notion that some could murder others, take land, and
resource and live better.
Man excused this behavior my convincing self that man was right.
We are right became the slogan and excuse for the murder of fellows
to take things for themselves.
This slogan morphed into We Are Right, later shortened to
W.A.R.
WAR. The excuse to take by force what others were gifted with.
 
Sleeppy

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Our mere existence is a deference afforded to the universe. Life is an anomaly, light-years in each direction- and yet, life has existed here for billions of years.
 
Neo Deist

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Sunstone said:
Do you consider the notion that the universe is indifferent to us to be a fact or an opinion? By "indifferent", I mean that the universe does not care about you, and is neither against you nor for you.

If you consider the notion that the universe is indifferent to us to be a fact, do you also believe you could prove that it was indifferent to us? If so, how?

If you consider the notion that the universe is indifferent to us to be a mere opinion, do you also believe you could prove that it is deferential to us (that is, that it somehow sides for or against us)? If so, how?
Click to expand...

The title vs the poll question were opposite of each other and threw me for a curve...no coffee yet and had to look at that for a minute. :confused:

I voted No based on the poll question. I can't prove that the universe is "respectful" to us. Just the opposite. The universe does not give two hoots about us or anyone else. Just look at a sun when it decides to expand into a red giant. Everything in its path is destroyed.

If Earth is engulfed by our sun when the time comes, the planet will be incinerated and destroyed. If Earth is not engulfed, the temperature will skyrocket and nothing will survive. Either way, it is game over.
 
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ADigitalArtist

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I voted no, agnostic that I am. Prove the negative is an unobtainable position so I think the answer must necessarily be no even for non-agnostics. But, for all I know, the universe is sentient and caring. I just don't see any evidence it is. Moreover I see no reason to not conclude that, in the puddle analogy, we developed the way we are to make use of our environment maximally, not that the hole which we fill was shaped for us.
 
Brickjectivity

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Guy Threepwood said:
I'd say there is strong evidence that the universe is accommodating to us specifically, whether or not that could also be described as a deference.. gets into subtle nuances..
Click to expand...
I am forced to agree. Suppose someone accidentally helps you. Its normal to be thankful, even though their action was on accident. What difference does it make to you? They helped you. You were helped, and so you cannot help noticing.

Willamena said:
Opinion, because it requires a biased judgement.

I chose "other," because the fact is that the universe is both indifferent and quite partial towards us, at the same time. The universe is the sum of all things: nouns, verbs, qualities and judgements.
Click to expand...
That's a great point, too. I mean, here we are. That's got to be good for something.
 
Rational Agnostic

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
Sunstone said:
Do you consider the notion that the universe is indifferent to us to be a fact or an opinion? By "indifferent", I mean that the universe does not care about you, and is neither against you nor for you.

If you consider the notion that the universe is indifferent to us to be a fact, do you also believe you could prove that it was indifferent to us? If so, how?

If you consider the notion that the universe is indifferent to us to be a mere opinion, do you also believe you could prove that it is deferential to us (that is, that it somehow sides for or against us)? If so, how?
Click to expand...

Since I am currently striving for a degree in mathematics, it is important for me to point out that you use the word "prove" too loosely. As far as whether or not the universe is indifferent to my existence, I don't think I can answer the question because "indifference" implies sentience, and the concept of the universe as a sentient entity, while interesting philosophically, is also unprovable.
 
Kilgore Trout

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
YmirGF said:
Neither... I highly doubt the universe even knows we exist...
Click to expand...

My ego can't accept the possibility that I'm not only not known to the universe, but also not extremely significant to it, so I choose to dismiss your view outright. Additionally, I will claim to pray for your misguided soul even though it brings me comfort to imagine that you will suffer for eternity for not supporting my ego's myopic and narcissistic perspective.
 
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W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
not a fact but depends what you mean

'the universe' is not all animate or conscious. In that respect you could say indifferent
however God makes all things to work together for good to those who love Him so... depends what you mean
 
Guy Threepwood

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
Shadow Wolf said:
What evidence? We can only occupy maybe .000000000001% of the total universe, if that, we are in the middle of a cosmic shooting gallery of asteroids and comets, there are black holes and planets billions of times larger than our own, and we are bombarded with radiation from the sun. As for our own Earth, not even it is very accommodating to us as we can only occupy a very small portion of it without any tremendous mechanical assistance. For most of it, we need equipment to breath, thick clothing to keep us warm, and plentiful amounts of water in storage containers, or we die. Most people on this planet, however, do not even have access to clean drinking water.
Click to expand...

exactly, if the galaxy had turned out to be teaming with ETs, I'd accept the implication, it's not all for us.

But I am also willing to accept the the opposite implication- of observed reality-we are the only sentient life forms we know of, the only means by which the universe can contemplate it's own existence.
 
Guy Threepwood

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
Brickjectivity said:
I am forced to agree. Suppose someone accidentally helps you. Its normal to be thankful, even though their action was on accident. What difference does it make to you? They helped you. You were helped, and so you cannot help noticing.

That's a great point, too. I mean, here we are. That's got to be good for something.
Click to expand...


Yes, we appreciate something more when we know it's a gift perhaps- we owe a debt of gratitude for it, and we have more of an obligation - not to toss it out in the trash!
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Willamena said:
You're here, aren't you?
Click to expand...
We could be god's boogers for all I know. Or we just got here by chance. But I'm pretty sure when even children suffer from horrible and terrible diseases and parasites, there is no universe, god, or other such cosmic energy giving one damn about them.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Guy Threepwood said:
exactly, if the galaxy had turned out to be teaming with ETs, I'd accept the implication, it's not all for us.
Click to expand...
We don't know if it is or not. Many scientists do strongly believe that given the size of the universe, and the number of planets, the universe probably does have other intelligent life out there somewhere. Personally, I'd be more surprised to learn we are alone, and think that has much greater implications, than if there is a universe teeming with life. In all reality, we've barely seen but a small flake of the universe, and we've had visions of xrays and gamma rays, discovering many planets, but just do not currently have the means to actually explore those planets.
But, if we are the only, it still doesn't mean the universe is catered to us, or even this planet, as natural disasters destroy entire villages and there are a number of objects in heavens large enough to destroy life on the planet, with some of them coming close enough to make scientists run their calculations hundreds of times before assuring us we dodged a bullet....this time.
 
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