Should Kerry have lied about meeting with the PLO regarding the UN resolution

whirlingmerc · Jan 4, 2017

Is it wrong for someone like Kerry to lie to the public? or is it astute? the new normal for the DNC?

Kerry’s two-faced solution - Policy - WORLD
from the above article

Kerry’s two-faced solution
FOREIGN POLICY | Egyptian newspaper reveals secret meeting between the secretary of state and Palestinians prior to UN resolution on Israel

In his 90-minute speech last week excoriating Israel for refusing to commit suicide by allowing a sworn enemy to have a state adjoining the Jewish state, Secretary of State John Kerry claimed the U.S. government “did not draft or originate” the UN resolution critical of Israeli “settlements.”

Kerry said there were no American fingerprints on the resolution and that it was totally the idea of the Egyptians and Palestinians. Except that it wasn’t, if one is to believe Egyptian intelligence.

If the Egyptian newspaper report is true—and the Obama administration has so far not denied it—the administration is guilty of a two-faced solution to the conflict.

jeager106 · Jan 4, 2017

Kerry is a public servant by choice.
Those that serve the public are held to a higher standard and should
be.
No. He should not ever lie.
Period.
I was a police officer and held to a higher standard.
Right or wrong that's the way it is.

Quetzal · Jan 4, 2017

whirlingmerc said:
Is it wrong for someone like Kerry to lie to the public?

Given our current president elect, the American people could care less about truth and integrity.

tytlyf · Jan 4, 2017

? Sources people, wow. Please fact check before taking the effort of starting a new thread. Thanks.

YmirGF · Jan 4, 2017

tytlyf said:
? Sources people, wow. Please fact check before taking the effort of starting a new thread. Thanks.

My first reaction was "Egyptian intelligence? Wtf?" LOL... (It struck me as a bit of an oxymoron.)

Oh, and for the record, I would not expect any senior diplomat to tell the unvarnished truth. In their world so-called "truth" is wrapped around many layers of deception and lies. It's the nature of the beast.

Augustus · Jan 5, 2017

The devil is usually in the details. Politicians dishonestly tell the truth all the time.

If what he said was “did not draft or originate” then it is probably true. That doesn't rule out meeting with Palestinians and discuss supporting their proposal.

Henry Kissenger used to start press conferences by asking the journalists 'does anyone have any questions for my answers?'

Answers are scripted to discuss the issue in a precise way, call it spin, PR, persuasion, political nous, legalese or whatever. It is an unfortunate reality of professional politics that equally affects politicians from across the political spectrum. Seeing it as a problem that affects only one side of the equation is probably a sign that you are subject to a significant political bias in your thought process.

tytlyf · Jan 5, 2017

There is no evidence, there is no proof. You have hearsay from some Egyptian official. Sounds like spin (fake news)

metis · Jan 5, 2017

whirlingmerc said:
Kerry’s two-faced solution - Policy - WORLD
from the above article

Maybe actually link us to some serious news sites? What's next, the National Enquirer?

Oh, I forgot, Trump actually reads the NE.

whirlingmerc · Jan 5, 2017

yes problems problems

quote
According to the leaked document, Rice told the Palestinian delegation that the Trump administration was very dangerous for them because his positions on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict differed from those of all American administrations since 1967.
read more: Leaked document: U.S. colluded with Palestinians 10 days before UN settlements vote
unquote

Leaked document: U.S. colluded with Palestinians 10 days before UN settlements vote

Should Rice be undermining a president elect? and not be transparent with him what she and Kerry may be doing?

metis · Jan 5, 2017

whirlingmerc said:
Should Rice be undermining a president elect? and not be transparent with him what she and Kerry may be doing?

Netanyahu is the one who started this, and even though I'm Jewish who's dedicated to the well-being of Israel, I have no sympathy for him. And G. H. W. Bush also couldn't stand him and wouldn't even answer his phone calls.

Netanyahu, has often taken the U.S. support for Israel for granted, so this was a welcomed reset as far as I'm concerned. And remember that Obama signed a $38 billion military-support bill, so he certainly can't be blamed for throwing Israel under the bus.

Akivah · Jan 5, 2017

metis said:
Netanyahu is the one who started this, and even though I'm Jewish who's dedicated to the well-being of Israel, I have no sympathy for him. And G. H. W. Bush also couldn't stand him and wouldn't even answer his phone calls.

Netanyahu, has often taken the U.S. support for Israel for granted, so this was a welcomed reset as far as I'm concerned. And remember that Obama signed a $38 billion military-support bill, so he certainly can't be blamed for throwing Israel under the bus.

I'll blame him. Obama is determined to leave some sort of legacy, since his only achievement (Obamacare) will be gutted. He didn't care that he spat at our best ally to do it.

metis · Jan 5, 2017

Akivah said:
I'll blame him. Obama is determined to leave some sort of legacy, since his only achievement (Obamacare) will be gutted. He didn't care that he spat at our best ally to do it.

I do believe your blame is misdirected. And Obama achieved a lot more than just "Obamacare", but I'm getting the impression from your above post that you're really not that interested in even considering any of the other accomplishments.

And if "Obamacare" is just gutted and not replaced, do you have any concern about the 20 or so million Americans that will no longer have medical coverage? Have you read what the CBO financial analysis would be if it were just just dropped?

Obama did not "spat" on our best ally-- he spat on Netanyahu, and Natanyahu well deserved it, imo.

Terrywoodenpic · Jan 5, 2017

Akivah said:
I'll blame him. Obama is determined to leave some sort of legacy, since his only achievement (Obamacare) will be gutted. He didn't care that he spat at our best ally to do it.

Surely they are your most costly ally, not your best.
All the support is one way.
Israel is hand out central for the USA.

metis · Jan 5, 2017

Terrywoodenpic said:
Surely they are your most costly ally, not your best.
All the support is one way.
Israel is hand out central for the USA.

I'm gonna take Akiva's side on this in that the mutual cooperation between the U.S. and Israel may well be second to none. When I'm in Israel, it sometimes feels like I'm in the 51st state of the U.S.

Terrywoodenpic · Jan 5, 2017

metis said:
I'm gonna take Akiva's side on this in that the mutual cooperation between the U.S. and Israel may well be second to none. When I'm in Israel, it sometimes feels like I'm in the 51st state of the U.S.

I can see what Israel gets out of it... but what does the USA get for all that money, that it would not get anyway.

metis · Jan 5, 2017

Terrywoodenpic said:
I can see what Israel gets out of it... but what does the USA get for all that money, that it would not get anyway.

Lots. We use their bases there, have working agreements on the development of various weapons systems, etc.

BTW, the money does come back to the U.S. because so much of what it's used for involves American products or services. At the end of WWII, the Marshall Plan not only helped the Europeans out, it helped us out as well.

Terrywoodenpic · Jan 5, 2017

metis said:
Lots. We use their bases there, have working agreements on the development of various weapons systems, etc.

BTW, the money does come back to the U.S. because so much of what it's used for involves American products or services. At the end of WWII, the Marshall Plan not only helped the Europeans out, it helped us out as well.

As far as the marshall plan went, the UK were not a beneficiary. In fact the USA insisted we pay back all the lease lend and pay for all the materials we had been supplied during the war. American manufacturers did very well from us both during and after the war.

The Usa use British bases all around the world, and have the support of our armed and special forces in almost every action. It has used our air bases in every action in the middle east.
It is also relying on our Cheltenham intelligence communications centre to a greater and greater extent.. With all that support we only get petty cash in return.
You will probably want the results, for free, of our new project into laser weapons as well.

For the money you have paid Israel you could have bought the entire country several times over.

whirlingmerc · Jan 5, 2017

One of the sad things is Obama promised to be a rock star diplomat between the Muslim world and the west, but it's only gotten worse under him.

esmith · Jan 5, 2017

metis said:
I do believe your blame is misdirected. And Obama achieved a lot more than just "Obamacare",.

Well from :What Has Obama Done? 11 Major Accomplishments (edited)

1. Ended the 2008 Recession
2. Received 2009 Nobel Peace Prize
3. Reformed Health Care
4. Regulated the Big Banks
5. 2010 Tax Cuts
6. Eliminated bin Laden Threat and Ended Iraq and Afghanistan Wars
7. Won 2012 Presidential Re-election
8. Nuclear Agreement With Iran
9. World's Largest Trade Agreement
10. International Climate Change Agreement
11. Job Growth

1. And the growth of the economy is still under performing
2. This is an "achievement"
3. Which is self-imploding and will be repelled and replaced
4. Which has stymied the economic growth of the country and will be repelled
5. He extended President Bush's tax cuts.
6. No he gave his permission for the mission after years of previous administrations intel gathering. Has sent more troops back into Iraq and Afghanistan. Suggested that his action cause the rise of ISIS
7. An accomplishment?
8. That one is going to bite him in the arse
9. Even the Hillary and labor unions thought this was a bad idea and will probably be renegotiated or cancelled
10. Doesn't have any legs to stand on
11. Labor participation rate is at miserable figures and most jobs created are part time and wages have stagnated due to his policies.

So, what has he really achieved?

metis · Jan 6, 2017

Terrywoodenpic said:
As far as the marshall plan went, the UK were not a beneficiary. In fact the USA insisted we pay back all the lease lend and pay for all the materials we had been supplied during the war. American manufacturers did very well from us both during and after the war.

The Usa use British bases all around the world, and have the support of our armed and special forces in almost every action. It has used our air bases in every action in the middle east.
It is also relying on our Cheltenham intelligence communications centre to a greater and greater extent.. With all that support we only get petty cash in return.
You will probably want the results, for free, of our new project into laser weapons as well.

For the money you have paid Israel you could have bought the entire country several times over.

What difference is it to you what we here in the States do with our money?

Should Kerry have lied about meeting with the PLO regarding the UN resolution

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