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* sigh* Just Another Day In Heaven

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The Bible never states that we go to Heaven, to include those verses you quoted above.

I will agree that Not everyone is called to heaven - John 3:13, but that does Not mean No one will go to heaven.
Any thoughts about Jesus' words at John 14:23
How can a person go to Jesus' Father and be with Him in Heaven if that resurrected person is Not residing in Heaven.
Resurrected people do Not become angels. They do Not turn into angels, but called as being ' saints' or 'holy ones '
- Daniel 7:18; Daniel 7:21-22; Daniel 7:27; Luke 22:28-29

The ' humble 'sheep' of Matthew 25:31-33,37 do Not go to heaven, but Jesus' ' brothers ' of Matthew 25:40 do.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Jesus, and those called to heaven - Revelation 20:6; Revelation 5:9-10; Revelation 2:10 - will govern with Christ for a thousand years over Earth, or over earthly subjects of God's kingdom government.
Those resurrected to heaven have two (2) jobs to do according to Revelation 5:9-10
They will serve mankind on Earth as being both kings and priests with Jesus.
As kings they will take care of governmental responsibilities of those living forever on Earth
As priests they will take care of spiritual duties of those living forever on Earth.

Your ' love going out in nature ', etc. is showing that you are called to be part of the humble meek to inherit Earth as Jesus mentioned at Matthew 5:5 in connection to Psalms 37:10-11,29

Jesus does Not have to literally wipe away tears, but bring happiness to those who inherit the Earth
- Revelation 7:17; 21:4-5; 22:2 - which is in fulfillment to Isaiah 65: 17-19; Isaiah 35:10.
Jesus will have happy earthly subjects or citizens from sea to sea - Psalms 72:8 ; Psalms 72:12-14

Revelation is written in very-vivid word pictures, and the picturing of New Jerusalem ( The heavenly seat of government - Galatians 4:26 ) is pictured by beautiful gems to illustrate its beauty for us.
The beautiful conditions that exist in heaven will then come and make Earth a beautiful paradisical Earth for us to be able to live forever on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.

We are nearing the soon coming ' time of separation ' on Earth of Matthew 25:31-33,37 when the figurative humble ' sheep'-like people can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth right into the start of calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins, and earth's nations will be healed according to Revelation 22:2 which healing will include No more tears due to sadness.

This is beautiful and it is poetry. I'm more asking what is behind the poetry?

What does Egar Allen Poe mean behind his beautiful poem The Raven?

Who painted the road gold in the Wizard of Oz....and on that note, instead of telling me about the majesty of the Yellow Brick Road and the erotic nature of Dorthy's shoes, who represents dorthy and even more so, who represents Oz.

"No one has seen the Oz. No way. No how" is all I hear.

So, while many believers in the future feel they will get their shoes shined and fur clipped, do they actually believe these things revelations say in heaven-rivers and gold and all you posted in revelations? If not,how do you describe heaven without the poetry?
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
I will agree that Not everyone is called to heaven - John 3:13, but that does Not mean No one will go to heaven.
Any thoughts about Jesus' words at John 14:23

The verse is not stating that we will go to God and make our abode with Him in heaven, but rather that if anyone keeps the Word, that Jesus and God will come to that person and "bring them into the fold" so to speak, with the final destination being paradise on New Earth. (Rev. 21)

How can a person go to Jesus' Father and be with Him in Heaven if that resurrected person is Not residing in Heaven.
Resurrected people do Not become angels. They do Not turn into angels, but called as being ' saints' or 'holy ones '
- Daniel 7:18; Daniel 7:21-22; Daniel 7:27; Luke 22:28-29

God comes to us, not the other way around. The dead will be raised, judged and then either destroyed or pass on to paradise (see above).
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I have a great life, I love my family and have lots of friends. I try my best to do no harm and treat others with respect.
I hate no one, but I do dislike the dogma of religion that says 'hate gays', etc.
I (or anyone else) can live a friendly, good life and not find god and be refused entry to this imaginary place. Alternatively, I could be a rapists and mass murderer and repent and find god on my deathbed and voila I'm in heaven.
I don't think so,

First of all, most people do Not have a death-bed repenting, but die with regrets.
Scripturally we are to hate immorality ( fornication from the Greek word Porneia ) Not hate people.
According to Matthew 25:31-33,37 it is Jesus at the soon coming ' time of separation ' on Earth who judges as to who is a haughty goat or a humble sheep.
Jesus gave us a ' spiritual work ' to do according to Matthew 28:8-20; Matthew 24:14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8.
Once we come to a knowledge of God's kingdom but refuse to tell others then we aren't a follower of Jesus.
Earth is Not an imaginary place. Starting with calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth, then Earth will start to become a beautiful paradisical Earth as the Garden of Eden originally was. We enter that paradisical Earth either by a physical resurrection - Revelation 1:18, or alive coming through the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14. As far as the wicked, they will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
So your conclusion is not actually biblical as you can't quote a specific verse (not your fault...it doesn't exist),
Is that what constitutes an actual Biblical conclusion? One necessarily based on an unequivocal declarative sentence? Baptists, at least those running Bethany Divinity College and Seminary, believe that the Bible is "infallible and free from error of any sort in all matters with which it deals, both scientific and historical as well as moral and theological." Got a specific verse(s) that says this? I await your chapter and verse.

Meanwhile, you are tossing out what is biblical by way of Revelation, and dismiss it as some hallucination that is not meant to be taken literally. :rolleyes:
Yup. Take
Revelation 1

9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Note that the seven stars in his right hand are not qualified, such as "star shaped replicas," or "star like objects," but simply "stars." You know, the kind that are enormous spheres of hydrogen and helium in the sky burning at 50,000 K. And note the two edged sword that comes out of his mouth. Do you really believe he literally had seven actual stars in his hand and that a two edged sword came out of his mouth? Really?


.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
This is beautiful and it is poetry. I'm more asking what is behind the poetry?
What does Egar Allen Poe mean behind his beautiful poem The Raven?
Who painted the road gold in the Wizard of Oz....and on that note, instead of telling me about the majesty of the Yellow Brick Road and the erotic nature of Dorthy's shoes, who represents dorthy and even more so, who represents Oz.
"No one has seen the Oz. No way. No how" is all I hear.
So, while many believers in the future feel they will get their shoes shined and fur clipped, do they actually believe these things revelations say in heaven-rivers and gold and all you posted in revelations? If not,how do you describe heaven without the poetry?

What a beautiful thought to describe heaven with poetry.
In Genesis, although Not written in poetry, Earth is described as a beautiful paradisical Garden named Eden.
So, how would one describe such a beautiful paradisical Earth with poetry.
It does Not translate as poetry but is poetic from the Hebrew when Adam first saw and poetically described Eve.
- Genesis 2:23
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Is that what constitutes an actual Biblical conclusion? One necessarily based on an unequivocal declarative sentence? Baptists, at least those running Bethany Divinity College and Seminary, believe that the Bible is "infallible and free from error of any sort in all matters with which it deals, both scientific and historical as well as moral and theological."

Good thing I am not a Baptist, eh?! :D

But thanks for trying to pigeon hole me into their mold. Too bad I left there as a deist and was very vocal about my personal beliefs. As a matter of fact, I am quite sure I have a few threads around here somewhere going into detail about what and why I believe. Oh yes, the Deism DIR!

Note that the seven stars in his right hand are not qualified, such as "star shaped replicas," or "star like objects," but simply "stars." You know, the kind that are enormous spheres of hydrogen and helium in the sky burning at 50,000 K. And note the two edged sword that comes out of his mouth. Do you really believe he literally had seven actual stars in his hand and that a two edged sword came out of his mouth? Really?

Nah, as most of the Bible was not meant to be taken literally. It is highly metaphorical or allegorical. That includes anything that the anonymous, 3rd party authors of the Gospels quoted Jesus as saying...since none of them were eyewitnesses to Jesus, and they wrote after the fact.

Nor do I believe in the Garden of Eden, Noah's Ark, the Tower of Babel, the Hebrew exodus, Jonah and the big a** fish, etc. All man made fictional stories, passed down by word of mouth as campfire entertainment generation after generation.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
What a beautiful thought to describe heaven with poetry.
In Genesis, although Not written in poetry, Earth is described as a beautiful paradisical Garden named Eden.
So, how would one describe such a beautiful paradisical Earth with poetry.
It does Not translate as poetry but is poetic from the Hebrew when Adam first saw and poetically described Eve.
- Genesis 2:23

All biblical scripture sounds poetry to me. Revelations, though, is a huge example of allegory. I don't see god as an entity coming out of the sky and using his hands to form the earth. Nor do I see him having lips to blow spirit (well, not spirit if talking literal... air) to fill the lungs to create a human from dusk.

It's not a bad word. A lot of scriptural books are written in allegory and poetry. It's meant for the message and guidance not to find it's historical accuracy. I think many christians are thinking to hard to justify their beliefs as right when they don't need to.

But really, do you believe you will walk on gold streets lined with different colored jewels and jesus actually coming to whipe your worries away (as said by someone else here)? If not, how do you describe heaven without that language?
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Good thing I am not a Baptist, eh?! :D

But thanks for trying to pigeon hole me into their mold. Too bad I left there as a deist and was very vocal about my personal beliefs. As a matter of fact, I am quite sure I have a few threads around here somewhere going into detail about what and why I believe. Oh yes, the Deism DIR!
Just figured that having gotten your Th.D from a Baptist school your theology would be in line with it. Who would have thought you'd be a undercover deist. At least they didn't lose any money on you.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
All biblical scripture sounds poetry to me. Revelations, though, is a huge example of allegory. I don't see god as an entity coming out of the sky and using his hands to form the earth. Nor do I see him having lips to blow spirit (well, not spirit if talking literal... air) to fill the lungs to create a human from dusk.
It's not a bad word. A lot of scriptural books are written in allegory and poetry. It's meant for the message and guidance not to find it's historical accuracy. I think many christians are thinking to hard to justify their beliefs as right when they don't need to.
But really, do you believe you will walk on gold streets lined with different colored jewels and jesus actually coming to whipe your worries away (as said by someone else here)? If not, how do you describe heaven without that language?

Happy or blessed are the meek who will inherit the Earth. Walk on the Earth - Matthew 5:5
So, how would one describe that future already formed inherited Earth ?
It is Not the Earth that is at fault, but the fault of the wicked now on Earth, whose days are numbered- Psalms 92:7
We will wipe our worries away right here on Earth.- Isaiah 35; Revelation 22:2; 7:17
Those symbolic gold streets are symbolic for New Jerusalem in the heavens - Jerusalem above - Galatians 4:26
That governing city of New Heavenly Jerusalem will govern over Earth making Earth a beautiful paradisical Earth as Earth originally was in the sample Garden of Eden on Earth.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Happy or blessed are the meek who will inherit the Earth. Walk on the Earth - Matthew 5:5
So, how would one describe that future already formed inherited Earth ?
It is Not the Earth that is at fault, but the fault of the wicked now on Earth, whose days are numbered- Psalms 92:7
We will wipe our worries away right here on Earth.- Isaiah 35; Revelation 22:2; 7:17
Those symbolic gold streets are symbolic for New Jerusalem in the heavens - Jerusalem above - Galatians 4:26
That governing city of New Heavenly Jerusalem will govern over Earth making Earth a beautiful paradisical Earth as Earth originally was in the sample Garden of Eden on Earth.

For example, each person in Oz was a member of Dorthy's family. If someone asked me who Dorthy's family was, I wouldn't say "The Scarecrow, the Tin Man, and the Lion." I know that's what the movie depicts the family as though the question is pretty straight forward. In this case, the answers are given in the beginning and end of the movie so I can name the names the actors played.

The Bible doesn't have that advantage. So the only way I know "who Dorthy's actual family are" is to ask believers. But as long as they give me the Tin Man, Scare Crow, and Lion (Revelations and Genesis among others), I would never know.

So, on that note of comparison, what is the literal side of heaven? Can you describe the literal part of heaven and do you believe this true?​
 

allfoak

Alchemist
There are many
Consider: you finally die and find yourself in Heaven. A year goes by and you start taking stock of your life there.




What is your day-to-day existence like?


What do find that's keeping you from being bored, day after day after day---like forever?





No boredom, our interest will be in the ones we left behind of course, once we get our own house in order.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
The Bible never states that we go to Heaven, to include those verses you quoted above.

John 14:2-3:
"In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also." (NASB)

May I ask, where is it that Jesus said he was going to "prepare a place" for his disciples so that where he was, they may be also?

He said his Father's house had "many dwelling places" and that this is where they were going to live.....where is this place? Where was Jesus going?

And the apostle Peter's words at 1 Peter 1:3-4:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you"

Is this inheritance not "reserved in heaven" for them?
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
John 14:2-3:
"In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also." (NASB)

May I ask, where is it that Jesus said he was going to "prepare a place" for his disciples so that where he was, they may be also?

He said his Father's house had "many dwelling places" and that this is where they were going to live.....where is this place? Where was Jesus going?

And the apostle Peter's words at 1 Peter 1:3-4:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you"

Is this inheritance not "reserved in heaven" for them?

Jesus never wrote anything in the NT. The authors were anonymous, 3rd party hearsayers that wrote the details decades after the fact. Not to mention Jesus also said some other stuff that simply was not true. Lastly, by heaven (Greek = ouranós) do you mean:

1. God's dwelling place.
2. The cosmos.
3. The sky.

Because the Koine Greek of the NT has 3 distinct meanings for the same term, which are all context dependent.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I will be Flipping on the religious forums debate about what it's like when you live!!! Some will deny that that there is an existence after living, once you are living that's it you cease to exist more. Others will say the streets are paved with gold everyone is happy and every one sings praises to our creator!!! Some will find it will find it absurd and slink away out into where the chatter isn't so stupid and sing "death is bigger than you and you are not me" some dude will come along hang him on a cross and he will live a horrible living, and on the third day some woman will proclaim he has risen he has risen from the living. And a a nutty religion will form around him and pro people will be lived for being a heratic!!!!
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Jesus never wrote anything in the NT. The authors were anonymous, 3rd party hearsayers that wrote the details decades after the fact. Not to mention Jesus also said some other stuff that simply was not true.

You are calling the son of God a liar? I am sure his Father takes as dim a view of that as when the devil did it to him. :rolleyes: Oh, don't tell me, let me guess...you don't believe in him either.....

So you don't believe a word of scripture? God never wrote a thing down apart from the 10 Commandments, (or don't you believe that either?) so are we are to just dismiss all the rest? God is powerful enough to create the Universe, but he can't leave us humans any written guidance after putting us here. What better way to educate multiple generations than to leave a written record of his dealings with humanity?

And you seem so sure of yourself.....

Lastly, by heaven (Greek = ouranós) do you mean:

1. God's dwelling place.
2. The cosmos.
3. The sky.

Because the Koine Greek of the NT has 3 distinct meanings for the same term, which are all context dependent.

Well I'm guessing that would be where his Father's house is.
Where do you live? The sky? The cosmos.....or in your house?

What do you expect in the future ND? Do you see one?

Does anyone else share your beliefs?
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
You are calling the son of God a liar? I am sure his Father takes as dim a view of that as when the devil did it to him. :rolleyes: Oh, don't tell me, let me guess...you don't believe in him either.....

The devil? Nah...no such thing as the supernatural boogeyman.

So you don't believe a word of scripture?

Some of it has merit, especially the stuff about being moral.

God never wrote a thing down apart from the 10 Commandments,

There's a lot more than 10. A total of 613 to be exact.

(or don't you believe that either?) so are we are to just dismiss all the rest? God is powerful enough to create the Universe, but he can't leave us humans any written guidance after putting us here. What better way to educate multiple generations than to leave a written record of his dealings with humanity?

There is no evidence that the exodus ever happened. Not one shred of anything about a few million people wandering around the area for 40 years. I view it as a campfire story.

I believe in free will. We make our own choices and take the consequences, good or bad.

What do you expect in the future ND? Do you see one?

God, being the creator and all powerful, can pretty much do whatever the heck He wants...which includes giving me an afterlife if that is His choice.
 
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Altfish

Veteran Member
I'm sorry, was I replying to a different person?



Our choice of associates tells us a great deal about ourselves. (in person or via some sort of media) If you are a believer, then your heart will be allied to what God loves and it will be repelled by what he hates.
Conversely, if you love what God hates, then he will not force you to live the life he is offering.
SEVeyesC08_th.gif


God never said he was going to save good people (or hypocrites for that matter)....he said he wants obedient ones, not rebels who want to do their own thing whilst not taking other people's sensibilities into consideration.
Drunks, drug abusers, greedy people, selfish people, violent people, sexual deviates.....God has no place for these ones, nor does he have a place for those who want to profit from their pretense of piety. He just wants good, humble and sincere people who will never want to do harm or to exploit others in any way.

The only other thing that he requires is that we love him.
grouphug.gif

But that is not hard once you get to really know him.

Is he asking too much?
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It is his planet after all.....isn't he entitled to set the rules?
Sounds a bit like North Korea
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
First of all, most people do Not have a death-bed repenting, but die with regrets.
Scripturally we are to hate immorality ( fornication from the Greek word Porneia ) Not hate people.
According to Matthew 25:31-33,37 it is Jesus at the soon coming ' time of separation ' on Earth who judges as to who is a haughty goat or a humble sheep.
Jesus gave us a ' spiritual work ' to do according to Matthew 28:8-20; Matthew 24:14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8.
Once we come to a knowledge of God's kingdom but refuse to tell others then we aren't a follower of Jesus.
Earth is Not an imaginary place. Starting with calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth, then Earth will start to become a beautiful paradisical Earth as the Garden of Eden originally was. We enter that paradisical Earth either by a physical resurrection - Revelation 1:18, or alive coming through the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14. As far as the wicked, they will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7
Ah, that clears it up then:eek:
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Who is the Baha'u'llah? (not sure how to pronounce it) And what makes you believe that his role as a prophet of God is authentic? Jesus said that there would be many who would come as prophets claiming to be sent from God.....is there something specific that drew you to him and his teachings? Are the teachings of Abdu'l-Baha placed on the same level as his father's?
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Do you have scripture specific to Baha'is?

Does God have a name in your religion?

These are excellent questions. I propose we take it one step at a time. Lets consider who Baha'u'llah is and take it from there:)

The Life of Bahá’u’lláh | What Bahá’ís Believe

Bahá'u'lláh - Wikipedia
 
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