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* sigh* Just Another Day In Heaven

Altfish

Veteran Member
I hate to disappoint you but there is no such place as hell....all you will get is a boring sleep that never ends.
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Well that sounds better than 'living' with the boring obnoxious people for the rest of eternity.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Go can do it better than I can.

Rev 21:3-4 - And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying "Behold, the Tabernacale of God(Jesus) is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them." and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death, there will no longer be any mourning, or crying or pain; the first things have passed away."

Rev 22:1-2 - Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of god and the Lamb, in the middle of it s street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing 12 kinds of fruit, lit fruit every month; and the leaves were for the healing of the nations.

Micah 4:3b - ...The will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks; nation will not lift up sword against nation and never again will they train for war. Each of them will sit under his vine and under his fig tree, with no one to make the afraid.

That is beautiful. What do you do there, though? I love going out in nature. I love art. That's my out. These things are also my heaven. It doesn't need to be "divine" and "spiritual" but to me, it is. I can describe it. Many artists of different fields can describe it from poetry (as in what many parts of revelation is) and I write poetry, so I understand that... to black and white art and sculpting. I can explain these things in beautiful words and to talk in an place of nature with art would be heaven to me. Yet, how can I describe it without using poetic words, metaphors, and fancy language?

Maybe the best thing to say is, "I don't know."

:leafwind:

So when jesus comes to whipe your tears, is he doing this literally? There are so many people. Then when you are all tearless and worry free, what do you do while you are looking at crystals and sinking in rivers? Are they real rivers?

I mean, rivers, crystals, gold, colored jewels (all in Rev. I read it), gold walk ways, et cetera are all earthly things. So, it goes beyond what we have on earth. How do you describe heaven? Is it a feeling? Thoughts?

How do you describe it without earthly terms like what it looks like-jewels, gold, crystals, rivers-and so forth; and how do you describe it without using the human psyche-thoughts, feelings, emotions, things that are part of the body/flesh (in christian view)?

Is there a way to describe heaven without these things?

Without worry... that's like taking out reality for a dream. Everything is based on cause and affect. What we do will always cause some stress positive and/or negative. Spiritual world is no exception.

How can it be, or is heaven described as an desire?
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Christians Including Roman Catholics and Anglicans, to name but two denominations, believe that God is outside time and not constrained by it
So you base it on their simple say-so. But what do Roman Catholics and Anglicans base it on?

It would be complicated indeed, If heaven were any different, and that God, souls of the departed and Heaven all existed in different time frames.
But doesn't everyone on earth today live in a different "time frame," whatever that is, than god? So why isn't it possible that heaven too could also exist in a different time frame than god?


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Skwim

Veteran Member
Actually, religious institutions are not subject to the same government oversight as secular universities because of the 1st Amendment. Religious degrees are used within the Church, and thus relevant to the line of work they are geared for. You are right in that it does not mean much outside of the Church or religious affiliations, but since this is Religious Forums, my degree and the title it confers is relevant, just as it is relevant in my capacity as a police chaplain.
Not as much as it would coming from a legitimately accredited institution. Accreditation means that a school has met minimum educational requirements, and without a reputable accreditation there's no way of telling this.

None of that changes the fact that I spent ~8 years going through the courses, doing the research, writing the papers, doing the thesis and dissertation and EARNING a Th.D. That is something that you can't take away from me, no matter how much you try and downplay it, mock it or brush it off. I fully expected you to try and attack my seminary and discredit it. That is the typical tactic of someone that has no real ground to stand on.
Come now, let's not be attacking the monster before it even growls. Actually, although Bethany is a very small brick and mortar operation (only five small buildings), it's online courses don't appear to be bad at all, although, lacking legitimately accreditation it's impossible to judge how extensive or challenging the courses are.

For the record, Bethany became aware of the shady nature of AAHEA (it used to be legit and based out of D.C.) and is now working to attain accreditation through SACS. They are not the only school to be duped by scam artists.
Yet Bethany still advertises its accreditation by AAHEA. Hardly a virtuous thing to do especially by an organization one expects to be above such a thing.

Having said all of that, let's get back to the OP, shall we? Please tell me where the Bible states that we go to heaven when we die. Name the chapter/verse.
Well, certainly not all of us, but consider what I posted to you in post 19.

Matthew 5:17-20
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 6:19-21
“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

2 Peter 3:13
But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

2 Corinthians 5:1
For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 Kings 2:11
And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

ESV / 22 helpful votes
Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.
Just the verse from Matthew 5:20 alone, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." strongly implies that heaven is the destination for qualified souls. If it wasn't, the verse wouldn't make any sense.


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Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
How do you access those Emojis?

Here you go Adrian.....

Free Smileys, Emoticons, Emojis, to use in forums, websites / weblogs and mobile apps | Page 1

There are 15 pages of them! Unfortunately they are not grouped so you have to make a note of what page your favorite ones are on.
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All you do is right click on the one you want and then click in "copy image location" then click on the image icon up the top of the forum page (next to the smiley icon) and it will prompt you to paste the link....and voila!
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I've just tried to access those sophisticated ones, and failed.
Obviously they're miraculous ones not available to Deists, or Bahais! :D

The mystery is revealed OB.....Just follow the prompts above.....or failing that you can just right click the image and "copy image" then "paste" into your post.
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it works for me.
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And mine.....
Threre was this brilliant Smilie, roaring with laughter and banging fist on (imaginary) table in hilarity. I loved it, and sadly it is nowhere to be found now.

There are a few of those.....I like the first one....what about you?

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Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Not as much as it would coming from a legitimately accredited institution. Accreditation means that a school has met minimum SECULAR educational requirements, and without a reputable accreditation there's no way of telling this.

Fixed it for you.

Come now, let's not be attacking the monster before it even growls. Actually, although Bethany is a very small brick and mortar operation (only five small buildings), it's online courses don't appear to be bad at all, although, lacking legitimately accreditation it's impossible to judge how extensive or challenging the courses are.


Yet Bethany still advertises its accreditation by AAHEA. Hardly a virtuous thing to do especially by an organization one expects to be above such a thing.

Not my fault the webmaster hasn't updated the site. :shrug:


Well, certainly not all of us, but consider what I posted to adrianhindes in post 19.

Matthew 5:17-20
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 6:19-21
“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

2 Peter 3:13
But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

2 Corinthians 5:1
For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 Kings 2:11
And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

ESV / 22 helpful votes
Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.
Just the verse from Matthew 5:20 alone, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." strongly implies that heaven is the destination for qualified souls. If it wasn't, the verse wouldn't make any sense.


.

In other words, there's not a verse that actually says it. Thanks, all I needed to hear to confirm what I and other theologians already know.

Now, what do you do about Revelation 20-21? ;)
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Sorry about that. I am in 3 forums and they all have different ways to quote. At times I revert to the one I have been in the longest.
Yes, I know that feeling
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.....I have reduced myself to two now.

John 3:13
"Moreover, no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man."


That means no one, including Jesus has ascended into heaven without the help of God.

Jesus was resurrected by his Father. (Acts 2:31-33) No one can be resurrected without the power of holy spirit.
If the scriptures say that NO ONE had ascended into heaven except Jesus, why does that have to be untrue? If you understand the ancient Jewish belief about death, then you will know that they had no concept of life after death.
Every person who died, both righteous and unrighteous, went to sheol to sleep peacefully until the resurrection. No one went anywhere but to sheol, so there was no need to invent other places for them to go. When Christ begins his rule on earth, he will awaken those dead by calling them from their graves to resume their lives.

John 5:28-29:
"Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."


Both righteous and unrighteous come forth from the same place....their tombs. The righteous will be granted permanent residency in the earthly realm of the Kingdom of God, whereas the unrighteous will have a judgment period whereby they can learn about God and adjust their ways. Christ will reign for 1,000 years, after which one final test will determine who gains permanent residency.

The incorrigibly wicked will not wake up at all having been consigned to "gehenna"....a place from which no one returns. They will "sleep" eternally....completely eliminated from existence.

Even when Jesus was going to resurrect his friend Lazarus.....the account says:
John 11:11-14:
"This He said.....“Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep.” 12 The disciples then said to Him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will [a]recover.” 13 Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking of literal sleep. 14 So Jesus then said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead" (John 11:11-14)


Where was Lazarus before Jesus raised him? Jesus said he was "sleeping". If Lazarus had gone to a better place, how was Jesus doing him any favors by bringing him back to this life, only to die a second time?


IMO those verse are an allegory. When man dies he can't get up from where he is---Sheol. Look at verse 15; can the dead call to God?
Job was expressing his hope of the resurrection, one very dear to him because of the loss of all his children. He asked to go to sheol for relief from his suffering, but expressed his faith that he would live again.

All the dead respond to the call of Jesus Christ according to John. Humans cannot wake themselves up from the sleep of death, but Jesus can. Lazarus responded to his call as will all those who come back to this earth to resume a life interrupted. Imagine the joy!
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Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
So you base it on their simple say-so. But what do Roman Catholics and Anglicans base it on?


But doesn't everyone on earth today live in a different "time frame," whatever that is, than god? So why isn't it possible that heaven too could also exist in a different time frame than god?


.

Most christians believe heaven is where God is, are you now suggesting he is elsewhere or should that be else when?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Well that sounds better than 'living' with the boring obnoxious people for the rest of eternity.

God doesn't force people to live....I guess that can be a relief to those who find no joy in the prospect of living a righteous life with others who love what is good and hate what is bad.
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Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Abdu'l-Baha, the son of the Baha'u'llah, who Baha'is see as being the perfect example of His Father's teachings said that when two people argue about religion they are both wrong.

Who is the Baha'u'llah? (not sure how to pronounce it) And what makes you believe that his role as a prophet of God is authentic? Jesus said that there would be many who would come as prophets claiming to be sent from God.....is there something specific that drew you to him and his teachings? Are the teachings of Abdu'l-Baha placed on the same level as his father's?
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Do you have scripture specific to Baha'is?

Does God have a name in your religion?
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
God doesn't force people to live....I guess that can be a relief to those who find no joy in the prospect of living a righteous life with others who love what is good and hate what is bad.
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I have a great life, I love my family and have lots of friends. I try my best to do no harm and treat others with respect.
I hate no one, but I do dislike the dogma of religion that says 'hate gays', etc.
I (or anyone else) can live a friendly, good life and not find god and be refused entry to this imaginary place. Alternatively, I could be a rapists and mass murderer and repent and find god on my deathbed and voila I'm in heaven.

I don't think so,
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Not my fault the webmaster hasn't updated the site. :shrug:
And I'm not suggesting it is your fault, but at least one of the Bethany poobahs has to be aware of it. It stands out like a red flag on their accreditation page.

bethany%20college%20accreditation_zpsrzilcbxg.png

In other words, there's not a verse that actually says it. Thanks, all I needed to hear to confirm what I and other theologians already know.
Then what was your point in asking me? I already told you why I conclude the Bible says people go to heaven way back in post 19. And obviously it isn't based on some verse that explicitly says "people go to heaven."

Now, what do you do about Revelation 20-21? ;)
Not a thing. Hallucinatory visions don't interest me. However, if you put any stock in them you might want to take a look at Revelation 19:1

1 After this I heard what sounded like a large crowd of people in heaven. The people were saying,
“Hallelujaha]">!
Victory, glory, and power belong to our God.



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URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
No one has escaped from Heaven to tell us what a hard existence awaits us.
But time does not exist there, so neither do days, boring or otherwise.

At the baptism of Jesus the heavens were opened up to him according to Luke 3:21-22
So, the full knowledge of Jesus' pre-human existence in the heavens was made known to him.
Since there is No war in heaven, No pollution, No sickness and No death in heaven, then that is what awaits those called to heavenly life. Since Jesus instructed us to pray that those same good heavenly conditions come to exist here on Earth, then a war free, sick free and death free Earth awaits the rest of us. - Revelation 22:2
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
two were in heaven and the angels are in heaven. John is greater than any of them.
Yes, to me, angels are in heaven because of being created as spirit creation.
David did Not ascend - Acts of the Apostles 2:34 - and John the Baptizer is also Not in heaven - Matthew 11:11
that is because No one on Earth was called to heavenly life before Jesus died - John 3:13
What Scripture teaches Enoch or Elijah were resurrected to heaven:
Enoch was taken by God - Genesis 5:24 - but taken does Not have to mean resurrected.
God simply disposed of Enoch's body as in the case of Moses - Hebrews 11:5; Deuteronomy 34:5-6; Jude 1:9
None of the people mentioned at Hebrews 11 were resurrected - Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:39
Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the ' future tense ' because physical resurrections will take place in the future millennium time of Jesus governing over earth for a thousand years.
Elijah taken in the windstorm - 2 Kings 2:11 - Not to the dwelling home of God, but into the mid-heavens where the birds fly. Our physical atmospheric heavens where Elijah was transferred from one place to another by the wind.
Elijah was still alive on Earth at least 5 years later because living Elijah wrote a letter to King Jehoram according to 2 Chronicles 21:1,12-15.
Jesus taught the dead are in a sleep-like state according to John 11:12-14
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach un-conscious sleep in death:
- Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13; Ecclesiastes 9:5
So, Enoch and Elijah are still asleep in the grave as is King David and John the Baptizer.
Those called to heaven start with the new covenant including those of Luke 22:28-30, and Not those who lived and died before Jesus died.[/QUOTE]

Your problem is Your don't understand the Scriptures you quote.
Acts 2:34-5 is not about Davis, it is about Jesus
Mt 11:11 is not about when anyone is.
Jn 3:13 means no one has ascended into heaven without the help of God.
Enoch and Elijah were not resurrected. They were taken alive.
2 Ki 2:11b - ...and Elijah went up by a whirlwind to HEAVEN.
Enoch wss taken UP. That means to heaven, not to Sheol.
Those in Sheol are not dead as the story of Lazarus and the rich man clearly teach.
It is usually the SDA who push "soul sleep." Did I guess right?[/QUOTE]

The sinning soul dies according to Ezekiel 18:4; Ezekiel 18:20
Gospel writer Luke wrote the soul can be destroyed at Acts of the Apostles 3:23
The wicked will be destroyed forever according to Psalms 92:7

I do realize a lot of people think the parable or illustration of Luke 16:19 is a literal happening and Not a parable.
Even though Matthew 13:34 makes plain that Jesus only spoke to the crowds in parables or illustrative stories.

Jesus' dead friend at John 11:11-14 is Not a parable as Luke 16 is.
Jesus' dead friend was a real dead person, and Not an illustrative story as found at Luke 16

Just as a tornado windstorm can take a person "UP" does Not mean resurrected to heavenly life - John 3:13
Being transported from one place to another by a whirlwind does Not mean resurrection but re-location.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
omega2xx said:
Deeje said:
King David did not go to heaven.

Acts 2:32-35:
"God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you see and hear.
34 For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand 35 until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet"

Those verse are about Jesus going to heaven. That does not meant David did not go there as well. All who did before the resurrection went to Sheol, which is divided into 2 parts. When Jesus was resurrected, the Paradise side of Sheol was emptied,---Mat 27:52-53.

Those verses are about David NOT going to heaven but he is foretelling that the future Messiah was going to "sit at [God's] right hand" waiting for his enemies to be put into submission by his Father. (Psalm 110:1, 2)

Sheol is the Hebrew equivalent of the Greek "hades" according to the Septuagint.
Solomon said that there is no conscious activity in the grave. (Eccl 9:5, 6, 10)
Why use the LXX when you have the Bible? It says the dead do know know anything. They don't know any wisdom

The LXX gives us an insight into what Jews believed in the day.The Septuagint was use by many of Christ's disciples because Koine Greek was the common language.

Eccl 9:5, 6, 10 says way more than that the dead have no wisdom.....it says....
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun.......
Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going."


There is no love.....can you imagine no love in heaven? Emotions have ceased because the consciousness of man has ceased. There is "no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, (sheol) where you are going." That is pretty much describing an end of human experience.....for the present.

The rich man and Lazarus is a parable, with symbolic characters, not real ones. And the evildoer hung alongside Jesus was promised "paradise" not heaven. Jesus did not go to heaven that day, so he couldn't have promised that to the thief.
There is no reason to take Lazarus and the rich man as a parable. Jesus went to the Paraise side of Sheol with the thief. There He preached to those in torments, prison(I Pet 3:19). Then both went on to heaven.

This is a parable along with many others if you read it in context. Luke 15 and 16 are mostly parables....a favorite teaching technique of the Master.

This man was not a Christian but acknowledged Jesus as King of God's kingdom...that might earn him a place among the righteous come resurrection time. (John 5:28, 29)
Did you not read v29---This is the world of God that you BELIEVE in the One whom HE has sent. The thief BELIEVED who Jesus was and that saved him.

In context, here is the account of the evildoer....

Luke 23:39-43:
"Then one of the criminals hanging there began to speak abusively to him, saying: “You are the Christ, are you not? Save yourself and us too!” 40 In response the other rebuked him, saying: “Do you not fear God at all, now that you have received the same judgment? 41 And we rightly so, for we are getting back what we deserve for the things we did; but this man did nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said: “Jesus, remember me when you get into your Kingdom.” 43 And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.

You will notice that the comma has been placed after the word "today" in this translation.....why? Because there was no punctuation in Greek and to place it after the word "you" is to give a false impression. When you examine what the rest of scripture teaches, it becomes obvious where the comma should be.
Jesus did not go to heaven that day. He was dead in his tomb for three days, just as he said he would be. Like Jonah in the belly of the fish, Jesus did not go anywhere for those three days. (Matthew 12:40)

The Jews had no belief in life after death, but in the coming resurrection under Messiah's kingdom, which they believed to be earthly. When this man asked to be remembered when Christ got into his kingdom, Jesus said that he would be with him in "paradise". Heaven was reserved for the ones who had proven faithful unto death, not those who exhibit faith a few minutes before they die.

Unless you are an older fogie than I am, it is more likely I have studied the Bible more than you have. That doe snot mean I am always right,but I have done my homework for 40+ years. No one is always right.
I am probably right up there with you in 'fogieness',
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also having 40 plus years of study under my belt. I was a member of Christendom's churches for the first third of my life, but I instinctively knew that there was much that made no sense and that the church had lost the plot doctrinally and in its actions.....or should I say, lack of them.

After leaving the church, I did my own search and came up empty handed. Both my sister and myself had reached a crossroads in our lives and were searching for the truth......almost ready to give up, there was a knock at the door that changed our lives forever. God came looking for us! How grateful I am to say that I am now part of a united global brotherhood who all believe the same things and who join in the work Jesus commanded to be done in every nation on earth before the end of this wicked world system can take place. (Matthew 24:14) We refuse to be part of this world and we will not participate in its elections or its politics or wars......like Jesus, we choose to remain neutral in such issues. This often results in strong opposition, but Jesus already warned us that this would happen. (John 15:18-21)

I am pretty disgusted with the conduct of my former church and its support for a world ruled by the devil. (1 John 5:19; James 4:4) :( You cannot be a friend of the world and remain friends with God.
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Then what was your point in asking me? I already told you why I conclude the Bible says people go to heaven way back in post 19. And obviously it isn't based on some verse that explicitly says "people go to heaven."

So your conclusion is not actually biblical as you can't quote a specific verse (not your fault...it doesn't exist), but rather it is inferred because of what some verses say after being translated and/or transliterated (butchered) into English, outside of the geolocation, culture (loss of idioms) and time period that said verses were supposedly stated some ~2,000 years ago. Meanwhile, you are tossing out what is biblical by way of Revelation, and dismiss it as some hallucination that is not meant to be taken literally. :rolleyes:

Meanwhile, back in the real world...
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
That is beautiful. What do you do there, though? I love going out in nature. I love art. That's my out. These things are also my heaven. It doesn't need to be "divine" and "spiritual" but to me, it is. I can describe it. Many artists of different fields can describe it from poetry (as in what many parts of revelation is) and I write poetry, so I understand that... to black and white art and sculpting. I can explain these things in beautiful words and to talk in an place of nature with art would be heaven to me. Yet, how can I describe it without using poetic words, metaphors, and fancy language?
Maybe the best thing to say is, "I don't know."
So when jesus comes to whipe your tears, is he doing this literally? There are so many people. Then when you are all tearless and worry free, what do you do while you are looking at crystals and sinking in rivers? Are they real rivers?
I mean, rivers, crystals, gold, colored jewels (all in Rev. I read it), gold walk ways, et cetera are all earthly things. So, it goes beyond what we have on earth. How do you describe heaven? Is it a feeling? Thoughts?
How do you describe it without earthly terms like what it looks like-jewels, gold, crystals, rivers-and so forth; and how do you describe it without using the human psyche-thoughts, feelings, emotions, things that are part of the body/flesh (in christian view)?
Is there a way to describe heaven without these things?
Without worry... that's like taking out reality for a dream. Everything is based on cause and affect. What we do will always cause some stress positive and/or negative. Spiritual world is no exception.
How can it be, or is heaven described as an desire?

Jesus, and those called to heaven - Revelation 20:6; Revelation 5:9-10; Revelation 2:10 - will govern with Christ for a thousand years over Earth, or over earthly subjects of God's kingdom government.
Those resurrected to heaven have two (2) jobs to do according to Revelation 5:9-10
They will serve mankind on Earth as being both kings and priests with Jesus.
As kings they will take care of governmental responsibilities of those living forever on Earth
As priests they will take care of spiritual duties of those living forever on Earth.

Your ' love going out in nature ', etc. is showing that you are called to be part of the humble meek to inherit Earth as Jesus mentioned at Matthew 5:5 in connection to Psalms 37:10-11,29

Jesus does Not have to literally wipe away tears, but bring happiness to those who inherit the Earth
- Revelation 7:17; 21:4-5; 22:2 - which is in fulfillment to Isaiah 65: 17-19; Isaiah 35:10.
Jesus will have happy earthly subjects or citizens from sea to sea - Psalms 72:8 ; Psalms 72:12-14

Revelation is written in very-vivid word pictures, and the picturing of New Jerusalem ( The heavenly seat of government - Galatians 4:26 ) is pictured by beautiful gems to illustrate its beauty for us.
The beautiful conditions that exist in heaven will then come and make Earth a beautiful paradisical Earth for us to be able to live forever on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.

We are nearing the soon coming ' time of separation ' on Earth of Matthew 25:31-33,37 when the figurative humble ' sheep'-like people can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth right into the start of calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins, and earth's nations will be healed according to Revelation 22:2 which healing will include No more tears due to sadness.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I'm sorry, was I replying to a different person?

Can you imagine all the boring people that will have made it to heaven? All the people that in real life you avoid like the plague. Pious, righteous, busy bodies who don't drink, don't swear, don't have dirty thoughts. Aaaaargh!

I want to be with the bad boys and girls. Give me Christopher Hitchens, George Best, Lemmy, Jerry Garcia, Janice Joplin, etc.
Instead I'm stuck with Mother Teresa, Jerry Fulwell, Mary Whitehouse and the likes.

No Hell seems a much better option

Our choice of associates tells us a great deal about ourselves. (in person or via some sort of media) If you are a believer, then your heart will be allied to what God loves and it will be repelled by what he hates.
Conversely, if you love what God hates, then he will not force you to live the life he is offering.
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God never said he was going to save good people (or hypocrites for that matter)....he said he wants obedient ones, not rebels who want to do their own thing whilst not taking other people's sensibilities into consideration.
Drunks, drug abusers, greedy people, selfish people, violent people, sexual deviates.....God has no place for these ones, nor does he have a place for those who want to profit from their pretense of piety. He just wants good, humble and sincere people who will never want to do harm or to exploit others in any way.

The only other thing that he requires is that we love him.
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But that is not hard once you get to really know him.

Is he asking too much?
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It is his planet after all.....isn't he entitled to set the rules?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Most christians believe heaven is where God is, are you now suggesting he is elsewhere or should that be else when?

If I may take the liberty to add Not ' most ' Christians, but rather 'ALL' real Christians believe heaven is where God is.
Please notice ->1 Kings 8:30; 1 Kings 8:34; 1 Kings 8:36; 1 Kings 8:39; 1 Kings 8:43; 1 Kings 8:45; 1 Kings 8:49
Jesus too located his God as being in heaven: Our Father which art in ' Heaven ........'.
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Jesus, and those called to heaven - Revelation 20:6; Revelation 5:9-10; Revelation 2:10 - will govern with Christ for a thousand years over Earth, or over earthly subjects of God's kingdom government.

Those resurrected to heaven have two (2) jobs to do according to Revelation 5:9-10

The Bible never states that we go to Heaven, to include those verses you quoted above.
 
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