How can you literally believe...

Timothy Bryce · Dec 23, 2016

columbus said:
That is mainly because it is an institution. Not because priests are more of a danger individually than step family or "mom's boyfriend ".
Tom

That's hugely debatable. I'd simply refer you to the discussions that have already been made in this thread regarding the vow of celibacy and the twisted effect that it would undoubtedly have on a man's psycho-sexual wellbeing.

Kelly of the Phoenix · Dec 23, 2016

RedDragon94 said:
We've got more copies of the Bible than the Iliad and those myths.

That only proves someone had more ink than the others.

omega2xx said:
There are 2 or 3 secular historians who mention Jesus

There are 2 or 3 historians who talk about Christians and what they believe.

It's not like they interview Jesus or anything.

omega2xx said:
Now if you refuse to accept what they say without a good reason

But you didn't read what they said. They are talking about Christians and their beliefs, which is far different than saying they know Jesus existed. If I tell you that people call themselves Jedi on the census and can even verify it with documentation, does that make Star Wars literally true?

RedDragon94 said:
The Quran wasn't preserved through adversity.

"Pagan" texts that predate the NT exist despite thorough attempts to burn entire libraries to the ground ... by Christians.

Shadow Wolf · Dec 23, 2016

The Good Doctor said:
I said "that the parish was a conveniently accommodating place for people with literally psychopathic tendencies". That can be a mutually exclusive statement to reminding ourselves that the Catholic Church also doubles as the world's largest and most unconscionable pedophile ring.

From a clinical perspective, no, it can't. Pedophilia and psychopathy are not inherently related, interchangeable, indicative of the other. They may be delusion and practice dangerous things, but "psychopath" refers to a specific mental disorder.

omega2xx · Dec 23, 2016

Kelly of the Phoenix said:
That only proves someone had more ink than the others.

So what's your point.
There are 2 or 3 historians who talk about Christians and what they believe

It's not like they interview Jesus or anything.

DUUH. Many biographies of Washington were written by men who never met him.

But you didn't read what they said. They are talking about Christians and their beliefs, which is far different than saying they know Jesus existed. If I tell you that people call themselves Jedi on the census and can even verify it with documentation, does that make Star Wars literally true?

The mentioned Him by name, that is all we need to verify he wa an historical character.

"Pagan" texts that predate the NT exist despite thorough attempts to burn entire libraries to the ground ... by Christians.

So what?

PeteC-UK · Dec 23, 2016

Hi Folks..

Shadow wolf;

From a clinical perspective, no, it can't. Pedophilia and psychopathy are not inherently related, interchangeable, indicative of the other.

Hmm - that highly debatable...See - a psychopath - by definition - is someone who has no sense of ethics and who doesnt recognise anothers inate human rights.....That indeed would apply to peadophilia......Interesting that in clinical use - the word psychopath is often indeed interchangeable with the other term SOCIOPATH - to reflect the damage to society that psychopathic behaviour does and the danger it poses...Again this term would also apply wholly to peadophilia.....Seems then that psyschiatrists do indeed lump them together - a peadophile IS a SOCIOPATH and that IS a kind of PSYCHOPATH - so yes indeed, a dirty child molester is truly psychopathic as they have no ethics that the rest of society shares and is wholly ignoring the human rights of his victims - psychopath for sure...

Timothy Bryce · Dec 23, 2016

Shadow Wolf said:
From a clinical perspective, no, it can't. Pedophilia and psychopathy are not inherently related, interchangeable, indicative of the other. They may be delusion and practice dangerous things, but "psychopath" refers to a specific mental disorder.

Okay, you're a little turned around here babe.

Please read the post of mine you just quoted.

I said pedophilia and psychopathy aren't inherently related. I've now made that clear twice.

My point was that the Catholic Church employs both.

metis · Dec 23, 2016

The Good Doctor said:
My point was that the Catholic Church employs both.

It's truly unfortunate that you have such a blanket analysis of the CC. If you're a psychologist, did you use the same tactic with your patients? IOW, a blanket condemnation because they have exhibited terrible behavior in some cases?

Timothy Bryce · Dec 23, 2016

metis said:
It's truly unfortunate that you have such a blanket analysis of the CC. If you're a psychologist, did you use the same tactic with your patients? IOW, a blanket condemnation because they have exhibited terrible behavior in some cases?

What planet do you live on?

The Catholic Church harbored, protected and in some cases endorsed pedophiles internationally and on a massive scale. It's actually unprecedented what this organization has committed against humanity. And that's just the pedophile stuff (one could argue that what went on during the inquisition is even worse than the international pedophile ring that is only just starting to be brought to some form of justice).

You don't seem to be able to grasp the concept that this is a remarkably hierarchical organization - the only way to rationally discuss this issue is to address it as a whole. We're not talking about a generalization of all people with red hair for example. Are you that dense?

And no - I'm neither a psychologist; nor a doctor.

columbus · Dec 23, 2016

The Good Doctor said:
What planet do you live on?

The Catholic Church harbored, protected and in some cases endorsed pedophiles internationally and on a massive scale. It's actually unprecedented what this organization has committed against humanity.

The planet I live on includes Genocide of the Americas, Mao's Great Leap Forward, Daesh, and a host of staggering horrors. I'm not minimizing the damage done by the RCC or the culture of privilege that enabled it. Just adding a bit of perspective.
Tom

Timothy Bryce · Dec 23, 2016

columbus said:
The planet I live on includes Genocide of the Americas, Mao's Great Leap Forward, Daesh, and a host of staggering horrors. I'm not minimizing the damage done by the RCC or the culture of privilege that enabled it. Just adding a bit of perspective.
Tom

Okay?

What's the relevance to the OP or my above post?

allfoak · Dec 23, 2016

Saint Frankenstein said:
How can you believe things like a man coming back from the dead, bringing a corpse back to life, walking on water, instantly healing the sick and disabled, changing the weather, ascending to heaven (did he float up into the air or what?), etc. literally happened, as historical events?

It's like watching television.
It is called suspension of disbelief.

The term suspension of disbelief or willing suspension of disbelief has been defined as a willingness to suspend one's critical faculties and believe the unbelievable; sacrifice of realism and logic for the sake of enjoyment.
Suspension of disbelief - Wikipedia
Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaSuspension_of_disbelief

Cephus · Dec 23, 2016

Kemosloby said:
You don't leave footprints walking on water. What we have are eyewitness accounts in an era when the authorities wanted it all covered up.

Except you don't. You don't have a single demonstrably contemporary account of Jesus, period. Nobody who ever saw him wrote it down.

JakofHearts · Dec 23, 2016

Cephus said:
Except you don't. You don't have a single demonstrably contemporary account of Jesus, period. Nobody who ever saw him wrote it down.

To question the existence of Jesus is to call into question so many other historical figures if we say there is no contemporary evidence. How do we know that Socrates existed? He never wrote anything. The only person to write about him was his "student" Plato, and even that "account" was written years later. Maybe Plato made up Socrates.

All ancient historical figures from antiquity were by rule of thumb written 1000 years after their deaths. Jesus, we have written confirmations that he existed as early as 25 years after his death. To add to that, we have numerous confirmations from different kinds of people which gives stronger credence to his existence. I'm sorry, but this is really a non issue to any serious historian.

metis · Dec 23, 2016

The Good Doctor said:
What planet do you live on?

The Catholic Church harbored, protected and in some cases endorsed pedophiles internationally and on a massive scale. It's actually unprecedented what this organization has committed against humanity. And that's just the pedophile stuff (one could argue that what went on during the inquisition is even worse than the international pedophile ring that is only just starting to be brought to some form of justice).

You don't seem to be able to grasp the concept that this is a remarkably hierarchical organization - the only way to rationally discuss this issue is to address it as a whole. We're not talking about a generalization of all people with red hair for example. Are you that dense?

And no - I'm neither a psychologist; nor a doctor.

Stereotyping an organization is no better than stereotyping a person, and if you do one then you are likely willing to do the other. I'm neither Catholic nor Christian, but stereotyping and bigotry towards any group I believe is blatantly immoral. You obviously don't agree, but your willingness to use a personal insults like you did above tells me much about your true character.

BTW, my youngest daughter was molested by the choir director at my wife's Catholic church, but neither her nor I blamed the entire church for that. He was canned, btw, but I'm pretty sure that means nothing to you.

So, go ahead and wallow in your bigotry as there are others here I'd rather spend my time with because they don't believe and behave like you. It is hypocritical to argue against immorality in the church, whereas some definitely exists as we've seen, when you act immorally yourself.

allfoak · Dec 23, 2016

JakofHearts said:
To question the existence of Jesus is to call into question so many other historical figures if we say there is no contemporary evidence. How do we know that Socrates existed? He never wrote anything. The only person to write about him was his "student" Plato, and even that "account" was written years later. Maybe Plato made up Socrates.

It seems what their lives represent is more important than whether they actually existed.
The authors seem to think so.
Neither Plato nor the authors of the scriptures were historians and didn't seem to be interested in historical accuracy.
They used historical figures to convey a message.

Shadow Wolf · Dec 23, 2016

The Good Doctor said:
The Catholic Church harbored, protected and in some cases endorsed pedophiles internationally and on a massive scale. It's actually unprecedented what this organization has committed against humanity. And that's just the pedophile stuff (one could argue that what went on during the inquisition is even worse than the international pedophile ring that is only just starting to be brought to some form of justice).

You don't seem to be able to grasp the concept that this is a remarkably hierarchical organization - the only way to rationally discuss this issue is to address it as a whole. We're not talking about a generalization of all people with red hair for example. Are you that dense?

Even so, that is not psychopathy but a whole other range of issues. "Group thought" can be surprisingly and frighteningly powerful.

Kemosloby · Dec 23, 2016

Cephus said:
Except you don't. You don't have a single demonstrably contemporary account of Jesus, period. Nobody who ever saw him wrote it down.

Contemporary? It was a long time ago, we have demonstrably old accounts of Jesus, which is consistent for something that happened a long long time ago.

Timothy Bryce · Dec 23, 2016

Shadow Wolf said:
Even so, that is not psychopathy but a whole other range of issues. "Group thought" can be surprisingly and frighteningly powerful.

What are you even talking about at this point? "Group thought"? What?

Shadow Wolf · Dec 23, 2016

The Good Doctor said:
What are you even talking about at this point? "Group thought"? What?

The psychological and social factors behind a group. In this case, causing those who are probably otherwise good and decent people covering up such abuse and harboring fugitives.

Timothy Bryce · Dec 23, 2016

Shadow Wolf said:
The psychological and social factors behind a group. In this case, causing those who are probably otherwise good and decent people covering up such abuse and harboring fugitives.

Yeah, that's called consorting and willfully concealing a series of indictable offenses.

There's absolutely no defense for that. Babbling on about "group thought"... my god...

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