The Two Faces of the Sabbath

syncretic said:

No, it wouldn't follow in that regard.

Some calendars don't even have named days

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Like the Jewish calendar.

rosends said:

Like the Jewish calendar.

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contextually, This backs my argument.

rosends said:

What about in places where the name of the day isn't Saturday? Is it related to Saturnalia in Georgia?

Days of the week in many languages

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It doesn't matter. The seventh day is always after six days anywhere throughout the world.

syncretic said:

Yes, and that day is related to 'Saturnalia'. isn't my problem.

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But you still want the day of the sun, you can't have it both ways, and again, I feel you are only making up excuses, admit your wrong and obey the true Sabbath !.

psychoslice said:

But you still want the day of the sun, you can't have it both ways, and again, I feel you are only making up excuses, admit your wrong and obey the true Sabbath !.

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And Saturday is ''better''? Heheh I don't think so. It's only the true Sabbath subjectively. You could probably approximate a better system, even, if you really wanted to, /perhaps/. But that aside, too subjective for me to support such an idea.

syncretic said:

And Saturday is ''better''? Heheh I don't think so. It's only the true Sabbath subjectively. You could probably approximate a better system, even, if you really wanted to, /perhaps/. But that aside, too subjective for me to support such an idea.

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Of course it is, because you will never admit it that your wrong !!.

Hi Folks...

lol...true sabbath..??...lol......

For those with ears to hear - the sabbath is ANY TIME when you consciously decide to seek the communion with the Divine in a direct manner......When you desire to be in that Presence - because of the manner and process, mechanism for such a direct communion, then at first you will need to come away from the world "out there" - entirely so at first - you must as He said, go alone close the door ,let no one disturb you - it is to be just You and the Divine that you now call to and expressly invite.. When you do this in an intended and conscious manner, then you approach the legitimate sabbath - and it can obviously be ANY time and indeed SHOULD be as CONTINUOUS as you can attain it - THAT presence - is the Holy Ghost as the religion terms it - and it is the attainment of THIS that the sabbath is all about !!

Seek THAT guidance always - and the means to achieve this direct communion, is a NARROW PATH - a SECRET PLACE - deep DEEP inside the Self - inside the MIND Folks and so at first you will need to empty the mind here of all its junk and crap - especially the religious crap and preconceived ideas of another mans truth..Thats the whole point of the sabbath - to have the DIVINE PRESENCE come and join You right here and right now - the legitimate version of a sabbath should be treated as a kind of "practice day" - a time set aside to train the mind to achieve THAT communion and call forth this Holy Ghost Divine Presence... You are told "do no work" sit idle all day and rest - but that is BOGUS sham misunderstood -the intent is to COMMUNE DIRECTLY - and indeed that takes EFFORT at first - it takes force of WILL(power) - indeed,it takes TRAINING and perhaps many many MANY tries - but persevere and eventually - you will find a deep secret silent empty place inside the Mind - a narrow focus of Self that is fully turned INWARDS - the Kingdom we seek IS inside us - the Gateway to it must be found by this inner Self exploration - have courage - call the Divine to You HERE in this secret silent place.....

So yer - rest, do no work - avoid the world out there and ALL its influences worries and concerns -this is to allow you to prepare -EMPTY THE MIND Folks
The whole notion of a spiritual sabbath - is to allow and encourage You to find and access THAT inner mechanism - entirely legitimate I assure you all... Certainly at first it is VITAL - set aside a specific time and place to attempt this communion in a conscious intended manner.. Do it often - not just a Saturday - or a sunday if you prefer - BUT MAKE IT CONTINUOUS - literally BECOME IT - the LIVING Divine truth directly revealed MOMENT TO MOMENT...This is the whole aim and agenda of all spiritual work - to become ONE with the Divine...Not to sit about ideal and just contemplate a "god" that is entirely seperate from you - but to seek out the living truth of the Divine that you ALREADY are...As said - for those with ears to hear....

Sleeppy said:

We'll never agree.

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That's fine. Forums are for discussing, not for converting.

We probably will agree on many things, just not on religion.

For some reason I can't get the text of your post to come up. If I have time I will try to cut and past it so I can reply to it.

omega2xx said:

The only restriction is not to work, not to let your animals work and not to let your servants wordk.

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There's also limitations on travel, plus what constitutes "work" had to be clarified.

BTW, just a reminder that the mandate to keep the Sabbath is only for Jews. If some Gentiles want to keep it, that's obviously their choice.

metis said:

BTW, just a reminder that the mandate to keep the Sabbath is only for Jews. If some Gentiles want to keep it, that's obviously their choice.

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You mean, from the perspective of Judaism. You aren't speaking with any authority concerning Christian religious adherence.
Some Christians do think it is a commandment, via the Decalogue, and other inference.

psychoslice said:

Of course it is, because you will never admit it that your wrong !!.

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It isn't about me. I actually do like the Saturday Shabbat, doesn't make it not arbitrary.

syncretic said:

You mean, from the perspective of Judaism. You aren't speaking with any authority concerning Christian religious adherence.
Some Christians do think it is a commandment, via the Decalogue, and other inference.

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The Law, all 613 of them, were ordained for Jews according to Torah, and that includes the laws governing Shabbat. If some Gentiles want to keep any or all of them for whatever reason, that's their choice or their church's or denomination's choice. And logically, why would only the Ten apply but not the 603 others that are all found in Torah?

Torah and Tanakh make it very clear that the entire Law must be followed as best as possible and that picking & choosing are not allowed, with only some allowance for unusual circumstances. If a Gentile feels that (s)he is bound by the Law, then that would mean the entire Law. OTOH, if they decide to pick & choose, that's their choice.

metis said:

The Law, all 613 of them, were ordained for Jews according to Torah, and that includes the laws governing Shabbat. If some Gentiles want to keep any or all of them for whatever reason, that's their choice or their church's or denomination's choice. And logically, why would only the Ten apply but not the 603 others that are all found in Torah?

Torah and Tanakh make it very clear that the entire Law must be followed as best as possible and that picking & choosing are not allowed, with only some allowance for unusual circumstances. If a Gentile feels that (s)he is bound by the Law, then that would mean the entire Law. OTOH, if they decide to pick & choose, that's their choice.

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Logical fallacies often don't impede Jewish or Christian belief.

There are 613 or so laws that were compiled. They didn't all originate from a single source, as your use of 'Torah' and 'Tanakh' suggests. You're employing extreme linguistic and cultural biases that largely ignore archaeological discovery and logic.

Seems like God said in Ezekiel that He gave the Sabbath as a sign between Him and "his people". Maybe all these people who find excuses not to follow the sabbath are not "his people".

lostwanderingsoul said:

Seems like God said in Ezekiel that He gave the Sabbath as a sign between Him and "his people". Maybe all these people who find excuses not to follow the sabbath are not "his people".

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Exactly the problem. Metis is suggesting that the Sabbath is mandated of Jews, and no other people. According to this, logic suggests that God's people are Jews only. The 'Tanakh' is full of these exclusivist biases.

metis said:

BTW, just a reminder that the mandate to keep the Sabbath is only for Jews. If some Gentiles want to keep it, that's obviously their choice.

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If you think there is a requirement to attend a religious service on the Sabbath, you are wrong. The Sabbath is not about going to church or synagogue. It is about remembering what God had done for us and about resting in it.

Sleeppy said:

Logical fallacies often don't impede Jewish or Christian belief.

There are 613 or so laws that were compiled. They didn't all originate from a single source, as your use of 'Torah' and 'Tanakh' suggests. You're employing extreme linguistic and cultural biases that largely ignore archaeological discovery and logic.

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Let me recommend you read my signature statement at the bottom of the page. IOW, I'm not exactly what you'd call "orthodox", or even anything remotely close to that.

Sleeppy said:

Exactly the problem. Metis is suggesting that the Sabbath is mandated of Jews, and no other people. According to this, logic suggests that God's people are Jews only.

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In regards to the latter statement, not only do I not believe that personally, but Judaism does not teach that either.

What I was responding to was a more literal interpretation of scripture, whereas that's where the person I was discussing this with was coming from.