psychoslice
Veteran Member
ha, excuses ?.
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What is 'Islamophobia'?
- Thread starter Rival
- Start date
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Actually, you surrender many "rights" when you go into business. For example, you can't legally falsely advertise, which impedes on the right to free speech and press. And there is no "right" to pick and choose your customers. By default you have more laws you have to abide by in regards to your business. And when you serve the public, you have no right to exclude certain portions of the public.
There is absolutely nothing in your religion that prohibits you from serving homosexuals. Jesus would be ashamed that any of his followers think that is his ways. He was known, after all, for frequently associating with lowlifes, bums, degenerates, and sinners.
Demanding equality and equal treatment under the law is not eradicating thoughts and rights. Maybe to some, but is slavery really a "right" worth preserving?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Deuteronomy 17:5, Deuteronomy 13:9, Deuteronomy 13:15, Numbers 31:7, Luke 19:27, Matthew 10:34.
Muslims pull some pretty nasty things your book as well.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
You don't surrender a Constitutionally guaranteed right when you go into business, that's nonsense. Not one. Please, don't lecture me on what Jesus would think. It isn't a matter of what you think he thinks, it is a matter of what is written. I have the right to not participate in any ceremony that is contrary to my faith, period. The Bible states as clear as possible many times that marriage is solely between one man and one woman. Christ states this. Paul makes it clear that homosexuality is contrary to Christian morality. Why then could you compel me to participate in a ceremony contrary to my moral principles ? Could you compel me to cater a satanic celebration ? You are conflating issues. It is not about general business of selling goods or services, it is compelling one to take part in an act or rite that is contrary to my religious standard. All people are guaranteed the right of the free practice of religion. One can't apply a religious standard to doing general business, but compelling participation in a ceremony that violates my religious principles violates my Constitutionally guaranteed right to practice my religion, which means you cannot compel me to participate in something totally contrary to my religion. Christ certainly associated with all types in society, as you say, the dregs in some cases. The question is why. Did he just like to hang out with them ? He loved them all, but his message was to repent and come into harmony with God. Those that refused, he sadly drew away from. He wanted to save them from their sinfulness, not patronize their sinfulness. You seem to think that what you call "demanding equality and equal treatment under the law" trumps all other guaranteed rights, it does not. First, equal treatment is not special treatment. Second, there is no such thing as "equality". I can be totally discriminated against if I apply for a job as a nuclear physicist, and my doctorate is in literature, I have been deemed unequal. There is only relative equality. Relative to the Constitution and all other guaranteed rights.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
Excuses for what ?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
If you falsely advertise, use deceptive tactics, or do not follow a contract, you are breaking the law even though such things can be claimed as freedom of speech, press, and association. If you have the religious belief that a woman should not be in a position of authority above a man, you are in violation of the law because you cannot discriminate against sex when it comes to hiring and promotions.
When you serve the public, it doesn't matter. You are serving them, not yourself. They don't need you, you need them. Legally, regardless of the reason, we have already decided you cannot discriminate against people with various "labels." If you hold your values that dearly, perhaps you should consider not potentially putting yourself in a position where the law will require you to compromise.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
You know very well.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
For your beliefs.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
It's written that Jesus told you not to bake gays a cake? Where?
But you have no constitutional right to have the kind of job that lets you do that. If you want to be like that, fine, but don't ask God to give you a job and then whine when you have to follow the rules of said job. Make wedding cakes for churches that don't allow gays (I mean, they allow ALL other types of "sin", but I guess somehow the rainbow crowd must be extra-sinful or something).
Christ is unaware of all the other types of marriages in the bible? Did he read the thing or not? Christ also said you should dump your family like a hot potato to follow him. Are you married? Do you love your spouse? Congrats ... Jesus said you can't follow him ...
Paul is a murderer and I don't take much stock in what he thinks.
Again, nothing in the constitution guarantees you the "right" to have a specific job. Go find something else to do.
Hey, if you want to line up for the lawsuit, go right ahead. As long as your business serves the PUBLIC, you must serve the PUBLIC. Cater ONLY to certain markets in a non-public setting if you want to be pickier than Jesus.
You are the one conflating things. You ARE in a business that sells goods or services. If you don't wish to participate in CERTAIN acts, then you should do the honorable thing (and far less hypocritical) and change jobs to something that won't put you in that situation.
If you make WEDDING cakes, YOU made certain acts your "general business".
Actually, they were being marginalized by self-righteous dorkwads who would just as easily leave them to die as say "hi". THAT'S why he went to them, to minister to those who were being abused by society. You are asking Jesus for permission to be a self-righteous dorkwad. I don't think that's how it works.
Note that he kept hanging out with the marginalized and "drew away from" the self-righteous turds who let legalism get in the way of compassion. I think Jesus had dinner with a Pharisee ONCE. He hung out with "sinners" the rest of the time.
You are a human applying for Divine Judgeship. You have been deemed unequal, actually. Let God do God. You do you.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
You have no concept of the right of free practice of religion as defined by the Constitution. I suggest you spend some time educating yourself by reading, perhaps the Federalist Papers, written by the Founders describing their concepts of freedom. Cakes, who said anything about cakes ? My only reference to cakes was showing the absolute hypocrisy of people who think like you. A man posing as a homosexual went to many moslem bakery's to buy a cake for a homosexual wedding, guess what NOT ONE would allow him to do so. Liberals, like you yawned. moslems are excused by your kind for everything. Christ also associated with Romans, do you think he would have gone to a Roman temple to jupiter to worship with them ? It isn't about a "job", that I take clearly understanding the policy's and duty's as described by the company, it is about MY company, and being compelled to participate in a rite contrary to my religious right's. You once more trot out the old, tired canard "you are judging".First, any person's relationship with God cannot be judged by another. Another person's acceptance or rejection by God cannot be judged by another. I am simply saying I cannot be compelled to participate in a rite that the Founders of my faith clearly state I should not. I asked a question that has not been answered, if the church of satan wants me to cater a bacchanal at their temple, should I be compelled to go ? What you don't grasp in your zeal for everyone to think and act like you want them to is that Constitutional rights exist in different area;'s for various purposes, one is not dominant over the others, they all must be accommodated and balanced in a reasonable manner. This is a very narrow and relatively rare set of circumstances. However I think it clearly points out how eager and willing segments of our society are to FORCE others to think and act in what is the only RIGHT way. thankfully we have the Constitution, and we will have a Supreme Court that will interpret it as written, not as they want it to say. Everyone's rights will be protected, from the unborn human's right to life, to all races being treated fairly, for all religion's to worship as they choose, to homosexuals being treated with basic human dignity. None are mutually exclusive of the others. Hopefully there will be no more unenumerated special rights
shmogie
Well-Known Member
I make no excuses for my beliefs, why should I ? I do understand quite clearly the history and theology of my faith by extensive study and course work. Sadly, I think you are commenting on something you don';t understand.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Muslims are subject to the law just as much as anyone else. If they serve the public, they can't pick and choose who they will serve.
The Church of Satan has no temples or other such places.
No one is trying to force you into anything, except doing your job in accordance with the law.
The Supreme Court has already ruled you can't discriminate based on a number of things, and Trump himself is not opposed to LBGT rights.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
Actually the headquarters of the world satanic church founded by anton le vey is called a temple. If not, substitute any word you choose. What law ? The Supreme law of the land, the Constitution, says that no law can be passed that impedes the free exercise of religion. Compelling someone to be involved in a rite that is contrary to their free exercise of religion violates this provision. Courts have found this to be true. It will ultimately be resolved by the supremes. There is no such thing as "LBGT rights" there are only constitutionally guaranteed rights for everyone. What Trump believes or doesn't believe is totally irrelevant. The matter will be settled by a legal review that determines what the Constitution says. Trump is also extremely strong on the Rights of Christians
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
F.A.Q. Membership | churchofsatan.com
Clearly, we've placed many restrictions on that, just as we have with speech. No one can shout "fire" in a crowded theater, and no business can discriminate regardless of their reasons.
If such a thing violates your views, don't put yourself into that position.
And those rights do protect people from discrimination, even if the discrimination if for religious beliefs.
He invited Catelyn Jenner to Trump tower and insisted she use whatever restroom makes her comfortable. He said his personal feelings regards gay marriage don't matter. His position on abortion doesn't make him "extremely strong" for the Religious Right. Unlike any other Republican, he didn't even bring up God during the campaign season.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Well there you are, how can I argue with someone who knows everything.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
I don't know everything, nor have I stated I did. I have asked for specific points, evidence, for what you say, and you speak in generalities and give opinions. I assume that if you had more knowledge, you could support your opinions with something you know
shmogie
Well-Known Member
I don't know everything, nor have I stated I did. I have asked for specific points, evidence, for what you say, and you speak in generalities and give opinions. I assume that if you had more knowledge, you could support your opinions with something you know
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Its a known fact that many Christians still keep the OT, but at the same time they cherry pick it, not wanting to read the terrible bits, it seems this is what you are doing, you can't have it all good, without the bad.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
What ? Are you serious ? Apparently you didn't hear the references to God he made to a number of Evangelical groups, in some cases thousands. You didn't see the video's of the rallies he had with tens of thousands of in attendance, where he pledged support for Christianity in the war humanistic liberalism has declared ? I can assume then you also didn't see the rallies where prominent national Christian leaders spoke on his behalf, as a strong supporter of Christian values, with him sitting on the dais ? Courts have already found that people cannot be compelled to take part in something there religious belief prohibits, whether it is part of their business or not. A recent one will illustrate my point. A small group of Somali moslems were hired as general laborers for a beer distributor. When he asked them to load trucks with beer, they refused, and he fired them. They sued, and won, purely on religious grounds because of their religions beliefs regarding alcohol. So, it will be ultimately determined by the supremes, four justices now have a constructionist view of the Constitution, a ninth of the same type will make a majority supporting religious liberty as it was intended by the Founders. BTW, if bruce jenner pulled out his wang in a lady's restroom with my wife or daughters present, I would make him cry. On second thought, he would be sitting like a woman, right ? So maybe he could maintain the illusion