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Two paths but not for all

SpentaMaynu

One God, All in all
Namaste all

I'm reading a book 'What Becomes of the Soul After Death' by Swami Sivananda. According to Swami there is two paths: the path of light followed by souls liberated who go to God and the path of darkness followed by souls who only did good because they wanted something out of it, this leads to continues reincarnation.

What I don't understand is that Swami say that these two paths are not for all people on earth.

On which path is the rest of the world then and what about evil people?

Thank you in advance for any answers and opinions
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
.. because they wanted something out of it, ..
This is selfishness. Good (I should not call it good, it is the normal behavior expected from a person) should be done without expectation of a return.
Gandhi's prayer: 'para duḥkhe upakāra kare to, mana abhimāna na āṇe re' (Helps those who are in misery, but never let self-conceit enter their mind). Vaishnava Jana To - Wikipedia
Hindi/Urdu proverb: 'Neki kar dariya mein dal' (Help others, and throw the thought in a river)
Another proverb: 'Sabse bada daan, gupta daan' (Biggest charity, anonymous charity)
Krishna: ' karma-phala-hetur bhūh' (Dont act for the results of your action - (act because it is your duty) it is a very deep thought, needs effort to understand). BhagawadGita 2.47
 
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SpentaMaynu

One God, All in all
Hmmmm......What all did he say that made you think the above?

He said exactly that - that these two paths are not for all people on earth... And after that there is no explanation of why not, so I'm immediately wondering on which path the rest is then...
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I'm reading a book 'What Becomes of the Soul After Death' by Swami Sivananda. According to Swami there is two paths: the path of light followed by souls liberated who go to God and the path of darkness followed by souls who only did good because they wanted something out of it, this leads to continues reincarnation.

On which path is the rest of the world then and what about evil people?
Surely, all people should try to follow the path of light. But most falter and seek something out of what they should have done normally. These people, in Swamiji's view have to have reincarnation (another try). Not my view since I am an atheist and do not believe in reincarnation other than in the sense of recycling. There are no evil people in the world. They too can do good/normal deeds in the society. Swamiji, naturally, wants all people to be normal and good. Even those who do not follow one of these two paths should try to follow one - so that at least they get another chance (reincarnation).
 
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Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
He said exactly that - that these two paths are not for all people on earth... And after that there is no explanation of why not, so I'm immediately wondering on which path the rest is then...

I am with you in not making sense of it. It seems to me that either you reincarnate, or you don't. I don't see a third choice. The only possibility I see is the mystic with siddhis who 'reincarnates' by consciously inhabiting an already full grown body, by resuscitating it from death with his siddhis. (As in the case of Tirumular)

From the title, I figured it would be the classical two paths of householder and ascetic, in which case there is a third path.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I am with you in not making sense of it. It seems to me that either you reincarnate, or you don't. I don't see a third choice.
The third choice is for the persons who will continue to engage in evil deeds and would not care about 'dharma'. For them, the hell.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The third choice is for the persons who will continue to engage in evil deeds and would not care about 'dharma'. For them, the hell.
Not how I understood it, but it could be. Certainly the Christians believe in people getting stuck in hell.
It strikes me that Sivananda wouldn't have believed in it.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Namaste all

I'm reading a book 'What Becomes of the Soul After Death' by Swami Sivananda. According to Swami there is two paths: the path of light followed by souls liberated who go to God and the path of darkness followed by souls who only did good because they wanted something out of it, this leads to continues reincarnation.

What I don't understand is that Swami say that these two paths are not for all people on earth.

On which path is the rest of the world then and what about evil people?

Thank you in advance for any answers and opinions
This is more or less an accurate synopsis of an Upanisadic passage. i will quote it when I find it.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Namaste all

I'm reading a book 'What Becomes of the Soul After Death' by Swami Sivananda. According to Swami there is two paths: the path of light followed by souls liberated who go to God and the path of darkness followed by souls who only did good because they wanted something out of it, this leads to continues reincarnation.

What I don't understand is that Swami say that these two paths are not for all people on earth.

On which path is the rest of the world then and what about evil people?

Thank you in advance for any answers and opinions

Here is the passage.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chandayoga Upanisad Chapter V Section 10

Now the people who know this, and the people here in the wilderness who venerate thus:- "Austerity is faith" - they pass into the flame (after death), from that flame into the day, from that day into the fortnight of the waxing moon, from that fortnight of the waxing moon into the six months when the sun moves north, from these months into the year, from the year into the sun, from the sun into the moon, and from the moon into the lightning. Then a person who is not human- He leads them to Brahman. That is the path leading to the gods.

The people here in the villages, on the other hand, who venerate thus - "Gift giving is offerings to gods and to priests"- they pass into the smoke, from the smoke into the night, from the night into the fortnight of the waning moon, and from the fortnight of the waning moon into the six months where the sun moves south. These do not reach the year but from these months pass into the world of the ancestors, and from the world of the ancestors into space, and from space into the moon. This is King Soma. There they become the enjoyment of the gods and the gods enjoy them. They remain there as long as there is residue of their actions, and then they return by the same path they went - first to space, and from space to the wind. After the wind is formed, it turns into vapors; after the vapors have formed, it turns into a thundercloud; after the thundercloud has formed, it turns into a rain cloud; and after a rain-cloud has formed, it rains down. On the earth, they spring up as barley and rice, plants and trees, sesame and beans, from which it is extremely difficult to get out. But, when someone eats the food and deposits the semen, from him one comes into being again.

Now people here whose behavior is pleasant can expect a pleasant womb of the upper castes. But people of foul behavior can expect to enter a foul womb of an outcaste and even animals.

Then there are those proceeding on neither of these two paths- they become tiny tiny creatures revolving here ceaselessly. Just, "Be born! Then Die! Be born! Then Die!" - that is the third state.

As a result the world up there is not filled up.


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The philosophical principle is interesting but the mechanism proposed looks dodgy to me. Anyways.
 
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ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
There is a third path.

For people who speak as if they speak the literal word of a God, but never have spoken to a God.

There is a "law" that says - Do not speak FOR a God unless you have spoken WITH a God.

Those who violate this "law", are then designated to take on all the responsibilities of the God.

It becomes very stressful.

They hate the job.

They fail at it over and over again, yet cannot escape from the responsibility. "Do this! Do that!" every damn second. No rest.

They try to run away. Escape when others are asleep, they jump on the midnight train to the Far Away place, neither light nor dark. Where the train drops them off, it is sort of like twilight. A grey. It is never dark enough to hide from those coming at you with wishes, demands, deadlines, responsibilities, tasks, urgency, tears, scary screams. It is never light enough to see clearly if they are just a phantom or a relative in the family, the face is just a constant din of noise shrieking at you.

Even the Far Away place, isn't far enough.

It is it's own hell.

Ask the "Sphinx Guru". It is quite misrable, actually. You keep ending up in a "grey" zone, over and over again, until you serve faithfully all those you cheated.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Here is the passage.
Then there are those proceeding on neither of these two paths- they become tiny tiny creatures revolving here ceaselessly. Just, "Be born! Then Die! Be born! Then Die!" - that is the third state.
As a result the world up there is not filled up.
Nice and hah! Good biology. :D
There is a third path.
Write something, ShivaFan. If you remember, I have said that earlier also. You have a flair for it. Sure, there is a third path.
Then, we will take our time to understand what you have written. You need not worry about that. Just write. :D
 
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SpentaMaynu

One God, All in all
Not how I understood it, but it could be. Certainly the Christians believe in people getting stuck in hell.
It strikes me that Sivananda wouldn't have believed in it.

Originally that's what I also thought, but actually Swami do believe in (quite a few) heaven(s) and hell(s). He explains these later in the book and they are not completely the same as the Christian heaven and hell. It does reminds me of the Catholic idea of Purgatory - apparently, according to Swami, you stay in one of the heavens or hells until your good or bad karma is 'used' up (if I understands his explanation correctly) after that reincarnation again.... I think one of the biggest differences between Swami's heavens and hells and that of Christianity is that the focus shouldn't be on getting to Heaven but on getting free from reincarnation..
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
@SpentaMaynu, getting free from reincarnation sends you to the 'lokas' of the great Gods - better than heaven heavens - to 'Vaikuntha' of Vishnu or 'Kailasa' of Shiva. In 'advaita' it merges you with Brahman. That is the 'summum bonum'.
 
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