How do you know God is morally perfect and righteous?

The Transcended Omniverse · Dec 5, 2016

I am referring specifically to the Christian God or any other type of God who condemns you, punishes you, deems sexual activities and hedonism as sinful, and throws you into hell. Sure, God has done some good things for mankind such as having is son sacrificed, he does stay true to his word, and he is the all powerful creator of the universe according to religions such as Christianity.

But it does not follow from there that God has a sane and perfectly holy and righteous sense of morality. You can have an all powerful genius who has an insane and corrupt sense of morality (but does at least some good deeds in the process) or you can have an all powerful genius who has a perfect and righteous sense of morality. I suspect it is fear of God that leads believers to conclude God is somehow the latter.

They do not dare use their rational and skeptical thinking to question God's moral character. But I have. I personally view my moral standards as righteous and the moral standards of God to be insane and corrupt. I don't think it is right to judge a person's way of life as sinful if they are enjoying themselves and not harming/torturing other innocent people.

Many would say that God does not lie. But how do you know that for sure? What if he is a hypocrite? One of his commands is "Thou shalt not kill," but here he commands murder. So what if he demands moral perfection from us when he is the morally imperfect and corrupt one? He could be lying about his sense of morality being perfect and righteous when, in reality, it is my own sense of morality that is righteous.

I am a hedonist, but don't harm and torture others. I am a kind person and I would never throw someone in hell to be tortured forever. It does not matter even if their deeds deserved such a punishment, my respect and love for the person would prevent me from doing that. I would give them a harsh punishment, but I would never condemn them to eternal torture in hell. Even if I committed the ultimate act of love such as how Jesus was sacrificed, I would still not send anyone to hell even if they were people who rejected Jesus, did not accept him, and did not live a life of obedience to God.

It could be the situation that God knows that my hedonistic way of living is morally righteous since he is an all knowing God, but condemns it since it does not adhere to his personal moral standards. How do you truly know that God is morally righteous and is truly all loving and all just?

Lastly, I agree with the famous skeptics with their objections to God's moral character such those made by Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Matt Dillahunty, Sean Carrol, Steven Novella, etc. I personally think the moral standard that both I and those famous skeptics I share should be implemented as the moral standard of the Christian God since I agree with the harsh criticisms and objects that these skeptics give against the moral character of this Christian God. This would also apply to other gods as well. If this were to be set as the moral standard of any god, then that god would have a perfect and righteous sense of morality.

Skwim · Dec 5, 2016

MattMVS7 said:
I am referring specifically to the Christian God or any other type of God who condemns you, punishes you, deems sexual activities and hedonism as sinful, and throws you into hell. Sure, God has done some good things for mankind such as having is son sacrificed, he does stay true to his word, and he is the all powerful creator of the universe according to religions such as Christianity.

But it does not follow from there that God has a sane and perfectly holy and righteous sense of morality. You can have an all powerful genius who has an insane and corrupt sense of morality (but does at least some good deeds in the process) or you can have an all powerful genius who has a perfect and righteous sense of morality. I suspect it is fear of God that leads believers to conclude God is somehow the latter.

They do not dare use their rational and skeptical thinking to question God's moral character. But I have. I personally view my moral standards as righteous and the moral standards of God to be insane and corrupt. I don't think it is right to judge a person's way of life as sinful if they are enjoying themselves and not harming/torturing other innocent people.

Many would say that God does not lie. But how do you know that for sure? What if he is a hypocrite? One of his commands is "Thou shalt not kill," but here he commands murder. So what if he demands moral perfection from us when he is the morally imperfect and corrupt one? He could be lying about his sense of morality being perfect and righteous when, in reality, it is my own sense of morality that is righteous.

I am a hedonist, but don't harm and torture others. I am a kind person and I would never throw someone in hell to be tortured forever. It does not matter even if their deeds deserved such a punishment, my respect and love for the person would prevent me from doing that. I would give them a harsh punishment, but I would never condemn them to eternal torture in hell.

The Christian love of God as a moral entity, while indeed strange, is understandable in the light of denial and idealization. As for knowing god is morally perfect and righteous, I believe the knowing arises out of self deception that convince a person that what they need to be true is true. The "IS true" becoming knowledge to them: knowing.

.

interminable · Dec 6, 2016

This is because u have no knowledge about God and the most important thing is that u compare him with ourselves that's your mistake

When u know God as an unlimited existence which we Muslims believe every attributes that we ascribe to him is unlimited too. And when we talk about an existence that is omniscient and omnipotent there is no place for such existence to lie because he has everything.
We usually lie because of fear ,obtaining better situation, making fun of others and.... But none of these reasons can be true about an unlimited existence that created everything.
Besides every imperfections are lack of perfections and as we proved he is perfect since he is unlimited.

Telling lie , rape ' jealousy , ego , self centred and..... All of imperfections are because we are in need of something and God doesn't need anything
He can have everything in no time.

The Transcended Omniverse · Dec 6, 2016

interminable said:
This is because u have no knowledge about God and the most important thing is that u compare him with ourselves that's your mistake

When u know God as an unlimited existence which we Muslims believe every attributes that we ascribe to him is unlimited too. And when we talk about an existence that is omniscient and omnipotent there is no place for such existence to lie because he has everything.
We usually lie because of fear ,obtaining better situation, making fun of others and.... But none of these reasons can be true about an unlimited existence that created everything.
Besides every imperfections are lack of perfections and as we proved he is perfect since he is unlimited.

Telling lie , rape ' jealousy , ego , self centred and..... All of imperfections are because we are in need of something and God doesn't need anything
He can have everything in no time.

It could be the situation that God knows that my hedonistic way of living is morally righteous since he is an all knowing God, but condemns it since it does not adhere to his personal moral standards. How do you truly know that God is morally righteous and is truly all loving and all just?

loverofhumanity · Dec 6, 2016

Without perfect judgement it is impossible for us to know what is morally perfect.

An infant may die from disease or be killed in a war. We might consider that unjust. But how do we know that in the next world that infant is not more than compensated for? We don't.

God is able to deliver perfect justice because He has knowledge of the worlds after this world. Who knows, the paupers of this world may be the kings and princes in another world.

The cruelty and oppression and wars in this world are not caused or fought by God but by man. God sends His Messengers from age to age to guide us but leaves it up to us whether we choose to walk that path or not.

If God appeals to us to be peaceful it is because He knows the consequences of war but then if we choose to ignore His advice and then suffer horribly that is not God's fault but our own.

When God speaks of heaven and hell He is referring to the heaven of obedience and the hell of disobedience. That is, if we follow His ways our lives will be more prosperous and peaceful but if we choose to conquer and dominate which He has advised against, we will hurt ourselves. Our hell then is to turn away from the best advice and follow bad advice leading us into problems of our own making.

God is only an advisor to us. He leaves us completely free to choose our own destiny and we have. So now we are complaining? The world is the way it is because of our choices. God has left us to do as we wish and not intervened except to send His Messengers which we usually persecute, kill, stone, crucify or just ignore.

God offers us a good moral code but we want something different so He leaves us to find out for ourselves if our ways are any better than His. He does not force us to choose His ways.

Yet when things go wrong clearly because of our own bad choices we blame God?

We make our bed so we have to sleep in it.

interminable · Dec 6, 2016

MattMVS7 said:
It could be the situation that God knows that my hedonistic way of living is morally righteous since he is an all knowing God, but condemns it since it does not adhere to his personal moral standards. How do you truly know that God is morally righteous and is truly all loving and all just?

Look
Ugliness is a lack of beauty. Something as an ugliness doesn't exist. Coldness is a lack of heat. Coldness doesn't exist and knowledge and ignorance and so on. So every imperfections are lack of perfections as i explained in previous post.
So imperfections are non existent.
And God is unlimited So if he doesn't have perfections it means there is a lack and imperfection in his existence so he isn't unlimited anymore

Besides I overlooked about your question the possibility of being true
Like these statements :
Maybe we live in fantasy
Maybe we are shadows
Maybe we are in a dream or imagination of a person in another world
Maybe we are puppets under control of others and.....

U see that these are possibilities that no one pays attention to.

Guy Threepwood · Dec 6, 2016

MattMVS7 said:
don't think it is right to judge a person's way of life as sinful if they are enjoying themselves and not harming/torturing other innocent people.

Hurting yourself, abusing the body you were given, is a sin also.

rusra02 · Dec 6, 2016

It was Satan who first planted doubts in Eve's mind as to God's righteousness and way of ruling. (Genesis 3:1-4) Since then, the majority of humans have rejected God's standards. The sad results speak for themselves, IMO. On the other hand, when humans follow God's laws, I believe their lives are much better even now, even with all the problems common to mankind. So, doing what God requires results in happiness and peace, ignoring his standards leads to unhappiness and evil. As Jesus Christ said to some who accused him of improper morals; "wisdom is proved righteous by its works." (Matthew 11:19)

loverofhumanity · Dec 6, 2016

Another way we know God is morally perfect and righteous is that all crimes, atrocities, rapes, thefts, murders et are committed by people. Wars are started and fought by men. God teaches us only to do good.

The Transcended Omniverse · Dec 6, 2016

interminable said:
This is because u have no knowledge about God and the most important thing is that u compare him with ourselves that's your mistake

When u know God as an unlimited existence which we Muslims believe every attributes that we ascribe to him is unlimited too. And when we talk about an existence that is omniscient and omnipotent there is no place for such existence to lie because he has everything.
We usually lie because of fear ,obtaining better situation, making fun of others and.... But none of these reasons can be true about an unlimited existence that created everything.
Besides every imperfections are lack of perfections and as we proved he is perfect since he is unlimited.

Telling lie , rape ' jealousy , ego , self centred and..... All of imperfections are because we are in need of something and God doesn't need anything
He can have everything in no time.

But he does apparently need obedience from his human creations. He demands us to adhere to his moral standards. So obviously he is wanting something here. He wants us to live according to what he sees holy and righteous. But he could actually be a morally corrupt God and it would be a good way to lie in such a way to fool as many as possible into worshiping and praising him.

interminable said:
Look
Ugliness is a lack of beauty. Something as an ugliness doesn't exist. Coldness is a lack of heat. Coldness doesn't exist and knowledge and ignorance and so on. So every imperfections are lack of perfections as i explained in previous post.
So imperfections are non existent.
And God is unlimited So if he doesn't have perfections it means there is a lack and imperfection in his existence so he isn't unlimited anymore

Besides I overlooked about your question the possibility of being true
Like these statements :
Maybe we live in fantasy
Maybe we are shadows
Maybe we are in a dream or imagination of a person in another world
Maybe we are puppets under control of others and.....

U see that these are possibilities that no one pays attention to.

Unlimited does not mean perfection. You can be unlimited in power, but still be morally corrupt. But if you are saying that he is overall unlimited in every way which would mean that he does not lack any moral goodness, then I really question this. I do not question God's unlimited power, but I do question his morality.

But I do think evil is a thing. It is a form of spiritual energy. It is not simply a lack of good. For example, a feeling of evil and hate would be activity of the brain regions responsible for those feelings and bad thoughts. If evil and hate were simply a lack of love and goodness, then it would be something like apathy.

God is not apathetic. He pours his wrath upon what he deems as sin and sends people to hell forever for that. I would consider that evil and hateful.

rusra02 said:
It was Satan who first planted doubts in Eve's mind as to God's righteousness and way of ruling. (Genesis 3:1-4) Since then, the majority of humans have rejected God's standards. The sad results speak for themselves, IMO. On the other hand, when humans follow God's laws, I believe their lives are much better even now, even with all the problems common to mankind. So, doing what God requires results in happiness and peace, ignoring his standards leads to unhappiness and evil. As Jesus Christ said to some who accused him of improper morals; "wisdom is proved righteous by its works." (Matthew 11:19)

I think it is just rationality and skepticism. There is nothing evil and satanic about it. I would not be happy living and serving a God. I would be far more happy living my own hedonistic way of life. This is because adhering my life to some God would make me feel restricted, miserable, and enslaved. I would not be allowed to live the life I personally value and wish to enjoy.

loverofhumanity said:
Another way we know God is morally perfect and righteous is that all crimes, atrocities, rapes, thefts, murders et are committed by people. Wars are started and fought by men. God teaches us only to do good.

He may teach us to do some good such as not harming and torturing innocent people on some occasions, but it does not follow from there that God's teachings are good overall. He teaches us that even a kind and harmless hedonist such as myself is sinful and will be condemned to eternal hell unless I live the way God intends. I personally do not think this is a morally righteous teaching.

loverofhumanity said:
Without perfect judgement it is impossible for us to know what is morally perfect.

An infant may die from disease or be killed in a war. We might consider that unjust. But how do we know that in the next world that infant is not more than compensated for? We don't.

God is able to deliver perfect justice because He has knowledge of the worlds after this world. Who knows, the paupers of this world may be the kings and princes in another world.

The cruelty and oppression and wars in this world are not caused or fought by God but by man. God sends His Messengers from age to age to guide us but leaves it up to us whether we choose to walk that path or not.

If God appeals to us to be peaceful it is because He knows the consequences of war but then if we choose to ignore His advice and then suffer horribly that is not God's fault but our own.

When God speaks of heaven and hell He is referring to the heaven of obedience and the hell of disobedience. That is, if we follow His ways our lives will be more prosperous and peaceful but if we choose to conquer and dominate which He has advised against, we will hurt ourselves. Our hell then is to turn away from the best advice and follow bad advice leading us into problems of our own making.

God is only an advisor to us. He leaves us completely free to choose our own destiny and we have. So now we are complaining? The world is the way it is because of our choices. God has left us to do as we wish and not intervened except to send His Messengers which we usually persecute, kill, stone, crucify or just ignore.

God offers us a good moral code but we want something different so He leaves us to find out for ourselves if our ways are any better than His. He does not force us to choose His ways.

Yet when things go wrong clearly because of our own bad choices we blame God?

We make our bed so we have to sleep in it.

All knowing does not mean perfect morality. You can have knowledge of what perfect morality would be, but be morally imperfect and corrupt yourself. Also, I have found my way to be better than God's way. I find his moral standards utterly insane and corrupt and if I were God, I think I would be a universally accepted God among many people unlike this Christian God who is hated and rejected by many people due to his sense of morality and judgmental character.

interminable · Dec 6, 2016

MattMVS7 said:
But he does apparently need obedience from his human creations. He demands us to adhere to his moral standards. So obviously he is wanting something here. He wants us to live according to what he sees holy and righteous. But he could actually be a morally corrupt God and it would be a good way to lie in such a way to fool as many as possible into worshiping and praising him.

Unlimited does not mean perfection. You can be unlimited in power, but still be morally corrupt. But if you are saying that he is overall unlimited in every way which would mean that he does not lack any moral goodness, then I really question this. I do not question God's unlimited power, but I do question his morality.

But I do think evil is a thing. It is a form of spiritual energy. It is not simply a lack of good. For example, a feeling of evil and hate would be activity of the brain regions responsible for those feelings and bad thoughts. If evil and hate were simply a lack of love and goodness, then it would be something like apathy.

God is not apathetic. He pours his wrath upon what he deems as sin and sends people to hell forever for that. I would consider that evil and hateful.

I think it is just rationality and skepticism. There is nothing evil and satanic about it. I would not be happy living and serving a God. I would be far more happy living my own hedonistic way of life. This is because adhering my life to some God would make me feel restricted, miserable, and enslaved. I would not be allowed to live the life I personally value and wish to enjoy.

He may teach us to do some good such as not harming and torturing innocent people on some occasions, but it does not follow from there that God's teachings are good overall. He teaches us that even a kind and harmless hedonist such as myself is sinful and will be condemned to eternal hell unless I live the way God intends. I personally do not think this is a morally righteous teaching.

All knowing does not mean perfect morality. You can have knowledge of what perfect morality would be, but be morally imperfect and corrupt yourself. Also, I have found my way to be better than God's way. I find his moral standards utterly insane and corrupt and if I were God, I think I would be a universally accepted God among many people unlike this Christian God who is hated and rejected by many people due to his sense of morality and judgmental character.

Please contemplate about what I said

I don't know you are believer or not but we Muslims believe that God created untold angels that obey God and do his orders

Why should he create us to disobey him???
U say I believe he is unlimited in power but simultaneously say that he needs us!!!!
A person that is unlimited powerful if wants everything it will be created in no time so what was the purpose of God for our creation? To KNOW HIM

There are some verses in Quran that say if we wanted to make all of the human being belivers we could do

But was it worth it?

God created animals with passions without reason
Angels with reason without passions

Human being with both

A person that tries to be like angels is better than them
A person that tries to be like animals is meaner than them

icehorse · Dec 6, 2016

interminable said:
This is because u have no knowledge about God

Neither do you, (or anyone else).

The Transcended Omniverse · Dec 6, 2016

interminable said:
Please contemplate about what I said

I don't know you are believer or not but we Muslims believe that God created untold angels that obey God and do his orders

Why should he create us to disobey him???
U say I believe he is unlimited in power but simultaneously say that he needs us!!!!
A person that is unlimited powerful if wants everything it will be created in no time so what was the purpose of God for our creation? To KNOW HIM

There are some verses in Quran that say if we wanted to make all of the human being belivers we could do

But was it worth it?

God created animals with passions without reason
Angels with reason without passions

Human being with both

A person that tries to be like angels is better than them
A person that tries to be like animals is meaner than them

He wants us to know him then and anyone who does not live the way he wants us to live will be condemned. I agree with the famous skeptics with their objections to God's moral character such those made by Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Matt Dillahunty, Sean Carrol, Steven Novella, etc.

I personally think the moral standard that both I and those famous skeptics I share should be implemented as the moral standard of the Christian God since I agree with the harsh criticisms and objects that these skeptics give against the moral character of this Christian God. This would also apply to other gods as well. If this were to be set as the moral standard of any god, then that god would have a perfect and righteous sense of morality.

A truly righteous and perfect God would not want obedience. He would be fine with our hedonistic ways of living as long as we don't harm and torture others. He would have the moral standard that those famous skeptics and I have.

interminable · Dec 6, 2016

icehorse said:
Neither do you, (or anyone else).

This is true that Noone can understand the essence of god but some information about himself that he himself and his prophet have given to us is enough

interminable · Dec 6, 2016

MattMVS7 said:
He wants us to know him then and anyone who does not live the way he wants us to live will be condemned. I agree with the famous skeptics with their objections to God's moral character such those made by Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Matt Dillahunty, Sean Carrol, Steven Novella, etc.

I personally think the moral standard that both I and those famous skeptics I share should be implemented as the moral standard of the Christian God since I agree with the harsh criticisms and objects that these skeptics give against the moral character of this Christian God. This would also apply to other gods as well. If this were to be set as the moral standard of any god, then that god would have a perfect and righteous sense of morality.

A truly righteous and perfect God would not want obedience. He would be fine with our hedonistic ways of living as long as we don't harm and torture others. He would have the moral standard that those famous skeptics and I have.

Thanks for being honest

U utterly wanna say that God should obey us not vice versa.

Those who u mentioned they have problems with certain type of gods
I mean if they find a god that has no orders they will say he is a perfect god because they are slaves of their passions

But the seekers after the truth say our reasons say the creator of everything had a purpose of creation so what would be that????

The ultimate message of prophets is that we should bring our lust and passions under the control of reason

Get married eat drink sleep enough but don't live like animal rather try to be angels

The Transcended Omniverse · Dec 6, 2016

interminable said:
Thanks for being honest

U utterly wanna say that God should obey us not vice versa.

Those who u mentioned they have problems with certain type of gods
I mean if they find a god that has no orders they will say he is a perfect god because they are slaves of their passions

But the seekers after the truth say our reasons say the creator of everything had a purpose of creation so what would be that????

The ultimate message of prophets is that we should bring our lust and passions under the control of reason

Get married eat drink sleep enough but don't live like animal rather try to be angels

I think an angel can very well be someone who lives for their own lust and passions. If there were a God, then the ideal God would not expect such worship. His purpose for mankind would be for them to pursue their pleasure and passions to their heart's content as long as they are kind people not harming and torturing other innocent people. You would be free to live an altruistic lifestyle helping others in this world, but you would not be expected and condemned for not doing so

interminable · Dec 6, 2016

MattMVS7 said:
I think an angel can very well be someone who lives for their own lust and passions. If there were a God, then the ideal God would not expect such worship. His purpose for mankind would be for them to pursue their pleasure and passions to their heart's content as long as they are kind people not harming and torturing other innocent people. You would be free to live an altruistic lifestyle helping others in this world, but you would not be expected and condemned for not doing so

I wanna say something philosophical although it's useless

We human being have purposes when we do something to reach our goals

But since God isn't not in need of anything and he himself is omniscient and omnipotent and ...so everything he is doing his purpose would be himself because nothing is greater than him
We are created to reach him
The eternal happiness and beauty

BUT this can't be achieved except for being slave of god and doing his orders

And notice that for someone like u God has prepared heaven
Gnostic say enjoyment of this world is nothing comparing to paradise so all u need is to be god's slave for 60 years and then be your king for eternal

And something more

Gnostic say if someone keeps doing sex with his partner for 60 years without pause this enjoyment will never be compared to one second of being gnostic and friend of god

Although these fact are senseless to u but notice that every enjoyment will be lost by death
Generally I wanna say it's not worth it to be slave of passions

Sorry for lecture

habiru · Dec 6, 2016

MattMVS7 said:
I am referring specifically to the Christian God or any other type of God who condemns you, punishes you, deems sexual activities and hedonism as sinful, and throws you into hell. Sure, God has done some good things for mankind such as having is son sacrificed, he does stay true to his word, and he is the all powerful creator of the universe according to religions such as Christianity.

But it does not follow from there that God has a sane and perfectly holy and righteous sense of morality. You can have an all powerful genius who has an insane and corrupt sense of morality (but does at least some good deeds in the process) or you can have an all powerful genius who has a perfect and righteous sense of morality. I suspect it is fear of God that leads believers to conclude God is somehow the latter.

They do not dare use their rational and skeptical thinking to question God's moral character. But I have. I personally view my moral standards as righteous and the moral standards of God to be insane and corrupt. I don't think it is right to judge a person's way of life as sinful if they are enjoying themselves and not harming/torturing other innocent people.

Many would say that God does not lie. But how do you know that for sure? What if he is a hypocrite? One of his commands is "Thou shalt not kill," but here he commands murder. So what if he demands moral perfection from us when he is the morally imperfect and corrupt one? He could be lying about his sense of morality being perfect and righteous when, in reality, it is my own sense of morality that is righteous.

I am a hedonist, but don't harm and torture others. I am a kind person and I would never throw someone in hell to be tortured forever. It does not matter even if their deeds deserved such a punishment, my respect and love for the person would prevent me from doing that. I would give them a harsh punishment, but I would never condemn them to eternal torture in hell. Even if I committed the ultimate act of love such as how Jesus was sacrificed, I would still not send anyone to hell even if they were people who rejected Jesus, did not accept him, and did not live a life of obedience to God.

It could be the situation that God knows that my hedonistic way of living is morally righteous since he is an all knowing God, but condemns it since it does not adhere to his personal moral standards. How do you truly know that God is morally righteous and is truly all loving and all just?

Lastly, I agree with the famous skeptics with their objections to God's moral character such those made by Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Matt Dillahunty, Sean Carrol, Steven Novella, etc. I personally think the moral standard that both I and those famous skeptics I share should be implemented as the moral standard of the Christian God since I agree with the harsh criticisms and objects that these skeptics give against the moral character of this Christian God. This would also apply to other gods as well. If this were to be set as the moral standard of any god, then that god would have a perfect and righteous sense of morality.

It is hard for us to forgive those that has done us wrong. But children are so forgiving because they hasn't built up so much pride in their lives yet. Having ill thoughts about someone is evil. But God wants us to conquer it before it takes control of us.

Matthew 5:45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Luke 5:21 The Pharisees and the teachers of the law began thinking to themselves, “Who is this fellow who speaks blasphemy? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

Jonah 4:2 He prayed to the Lord, “Isn’t this what I said, Lord, when I was still at home? That is what I tried to forestall by fleeing to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity.

2 Samuel 24:16 When the angel stretched out his hand to destroy Jerusalem, the Lord relented concerning the disaster and said to the angel who was afflicting the people, “Enough! Withdraw your hand.” The angel of the Lord was then at the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.

Matthew 18:3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

icehorse · Dec 6, 2016

interminable said:
This is true that Noone can understand the essence of god but some information about himself that he himself and his prophet have given to us is enough

Maybe you have "faith" that the Quran and the story of Muhammad are good information about god. But I disagree, and you don't have good evidence. I agree that the Quran exists, I read it, but that doesn't prove it is the word of god.

loverofhumanity · Dec 6, 2016

MattMVS7 said:
He wants us to know him then and anyone who does not live the way he wants us to live will be condemned. I agree with the famous skeptics with their objections to God's moral character such those made by Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Matt Dillahunty, Sean Carrol, Steven Novella, etc.

I personally think the moral standard that both I and those famous skeptics I share should be implemented as the moral standard of the Christian God since I agree with the harsh criticisms and objects that these skeptics give against the moral character of this Christian God. This would also apply to other gods as well. If this were to be set as the moral standard of any god, then that god would have a perfect and righteous sense of morality.

A truly righteous and perfect God would not want obedience. He would be fine with our hedonistic ways of living as long as we don't harm and torture others. He would have the moral standard that those famous skeptics and I have.

No that's not it. He offers us advice on how to solve a problem and it is the best advice possible. Anything else will not be as good and likely lead to us creating problems for ourselves which is the hell we have created on earth with our own bad decisions.

There is no such thing as hell. Our own bad decisions are our hell. God offers us a better way and if we take it we stand to benefit but God Himself does not intervene or judge. He just offers us a better way.

How do you know God is morally perfect and righteous?

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