What is Right With Islam?

Limo · Dec 1, 2016

sovietchild said:
I don't want to be one sided nor do I want to disagree with you, however since this topic is in debate category, don't you think we should debate here?

The forum is full of debates about Islam especially negative things.

For the first time I see people are talking about what they see good in Islam
This post is peaceful and beautiful. Let keep it like this.
I feel happy to see people who debate a lot write something good.
I don't mind discuss the subject.
You or him can create a new thread and I'll answer immediately.

idav · Dec 1, 2016

What Islam gets right is it stays to original tenants like those found in the Old Testament/Tanakh as compared to mainstream Christianity, along the lines of Jewish orthodoxy.

JakofHearts · Dec 1, 2016

Nietzsche said:
Islam's major accomplishments are cultural ones. And under the right circumstances(see the Islamic Golden Age) it's very pro-science. While the Christians were busy murdering one another over who daddy loved more, the Muslims were naming & charting the course of the stars & planets, inventing modern math and building upon the glory of Roman achievements.

That last bit is something the Christians never thought to do until much, much later despite literally ****ing sitting on 99% of it.

I kind of put the Islamic "golden age" into the category of the 'Age of the Barbarians'. After the fall of Rome, Europe was in a weaken state of internal strife, and the Muslims merely took advantage of it as did other barbarians, (i.e. the Vikings, Franks, Visigoths, etc). With historians like Voltaire (a known critic towards the Catholic Church), were always quick to point out the contrasts between a weakened Western Civilization and Islam which was basically where this 'Islamic golden age' narrative came from.

During this time 750-1260AD, the rise of Islam was due to constant battles and war with Europe and the now extinct Sassanid Empire. Historically, Muslims dominated 1/3 of the Mediterranean and put it's conquered cultures under heavy submission or death; and culminated a monopoly in slavery, a not largely known fact that Muslims captured over a million European Christians and brought them into the slave quarters of Islam. And slavery of children still openly exists in some Muslims countries today.

The reason why Islam had a "golden age" was because they conquered a lot of territory and would bring intellectuals from all different cultures together. There were some good things that happened when these different cultures were brought together, by force as it were, in Iraq. One of the things that came out of the golden age was the philosophy that there is no cause-and-effect, and that there are no natural laws. Pretty pseudo-scientific thinking considering science is based on the search for natural laws and is based upon cause-and-effect.

The only good thing about Islam is that the majority of Muslims are ignorant of the Qur'an, or are capable of picking and choosing the good parts out of a heavily violent book.

azim24 · Dec 1, 2016

Shrew said:
If my information is correct, Islam forbids to charge interests when lending money (Sharia compliant banking).
If this is true it is in my opinion very good.

Yeah it is true about forbidding interest.I don't know Sharia compliant banking.Also i will share some of the verses about that for you.And by this way i will show a positive aspect of Islam too.
Those who consume interest cannot stand [on the Day of Resurrection] except as one stands who is being beaten by Satan into insanity. That is because they say, "Trade is [just] like interest." But Allah has permitted trade and has forbidden interest. So whoever has received an admonition from his Lord and desists may have what is past, and his affair rests with Allah . But whoever returns to [dealing in interest or usury] - those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide eternally therein.2:275 Quran
Allah destroys interest and gives increase for charities. And Allah does not like every sinning disbeliever. 2:276
O you who have believed, fear Allah and give up what remains [due to you] of interest, if you should be believers. 2:278
And if you do not, then be informed of a war [against you] from Allah and His Messenger. But if you repent, you may have your principal - [thus] you do no wrong, nor are you wronged. 2:279
And [for] their taking of usury while they had been forbidden from it, and their consuming of the people's wealth unjustly. And we have prepared for the disbelievers among them a painful punishment. 4:161
And whatever you give for interest to increase within the wealth of people will not increase with Allah . But what you give in zakah, desiring the countenance of Allah - those are the multipliers. Quran 30:39

Servant_of_the_One1 · Dec 1, 2016

Everything is right.
The most beautiful right is that Islam is an guidance that leads to seeing the Creator in Paradise.
Something that some humans would never experience because they fought against the message of truth rejecting messengers.

azim24 · Dec 1, 2016

There are many things that Islam gets right.It is not an easy thing to explain in just one message.Thanks to Allah(swt) i read Quran.
And if whatever trees upon the earth were pens and the sea [was ink], replenished thereafter by seven [more] seas, the words of Allah would not be exhausted. Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise. Quran 31:27

Sonofason · Dec 1, 2016

Sunstone said:
Serious question. I see so many threads critical of Islam. I'm curious what people think Islam gets right?

Sin is a serious matter. I think Islam comprehends how grave and serious a matter it truly is.

Smart_Guy · Dec 1, 2016

LuisDantas said:
You know something? Your list put me thinking on how it must be rewarding for Muslims to interact with like-minded Muslims with whom they have already established relationships of mutual trust and respect.

I assume that leads to a considerable level of rejection of blast radius weapons of most kinds, including air bombings. Would you agree?

In most contexts that I am familiar with, the word "alms" is reserved for uses where there is the understanding that the money will not be returned.

I understand that one of the Five PIllars of Islam is Zakat - the duty to support those in need - and that there is also encouragement for voluntary, often anonymous financial benevolence, called Sadaqah.

Would it be fair to understand that returning alms might take the form of nurturing the resolve to acquire financial stability and to eventually give back to the community (not necessarily to the very same, exact people that gave us support in our own time of need)?

Or is returning alms something else?

Oh right, I have had opportunity to meet that custom. It sure is charming.

It sounds demanding as well. As a matter of fact, I get the sense that much of typical Muslim life involves a measure of contemplation of elevated ideals and the practical need to accept our own limitations. It sounds, for lack of a better word, humbling.

Giving people credit for their sincere efforts is definitely a good thing, and one that is not found all that often in random social environments. We certainly should praise Islam for valuing that good habit and teaching it.

Reciprocity of good will is rather precious.

Cool

For your comment on No. 6, yes, I agree.

As for your comment on No. 7; the alms point, my answer is that alms are considered a right for those who deserve it; not by name, but by definition. It is considered a trust held by the capable Muslim. It is obliged to be payed to those who deserve it. In this case, I should have said "paid" instead of "returned". Sorry about that. I'll edit the post with this.

By the way, those are about "Islam", not "Muslims". It is unfortunate that some, or rather many Muslims don't follow it. Let alone being humans (not perfect) and facing necessity that could cause rules to not be applied in their exact default position.

Please advise if I missed anything else you pointed out, that you want me to clarify further.

Smart_Guy · Dec 1, 2016

Deathbydefault said:
You didn't grasp my point, I don't want to throw out Islam because they copy-paste correct morals sometimes.
Same with the constitution, international law, human rights and so on.

I meant to say that simply because Islam gets some things correct some of the time, It doesn't at all overshadow what it doesn't get correct, a point that cannot be carried over to the constitution as it gets most things right most of the time.

Believe me, I did not take your comment in such a bad way. If you don't wish to answer my queries, I respect that and don't mind it at all. Please don't let it bother you.

Deathbydefault · Dec 1, 2016

Smart_Guy said:
Believe me, I did not take your comment in such a bad way. If you don't wish to answer my queries, I respect that and don't mind it at all. Please don't let it bother you.

OK, let me start over and take this in parts, just to make sure I'm understanding you.
I said:

Deathbydefault said:
Anything Islam does get right doesn't need Islam to get it right.
I suppose that isn't exactly the point of this thread though?

Going from that, I get a response from you, which I will re-answer in parts.

Smart_Guy said:
I don't mean to disagree with you by this, I just wanna discuss that if so, then you also mean it applies with every single other belief/religion/way of life/law else?

Yes, I fully intended that sort of consistency.

Smart_Guy said:
An example case scenario:
What is the validity of the following statement "anything U.S. amendments do get right, does not need those amendments to get it right" in your opinion? Is it good to remove those amendments based on that logic? How can we expect life would be in USA then?

People are what need to get it right, not systems and laws, so that statement is valid.
No it is not. Not unless they were more detrimental than beneficial.

This ties into my previous post, which I may not have been entirely clear on, sorry.

Deathbydefault said:
You didn't grasp my point, I don't want to throw out Islam because they copy-paste correct morals sometimes.
Same with the constitution, international law, human rights and so on.

I meant to say that simply because Islam gets some things correct some of the time, It doesn't at all overshadow what it doesn't get correct, a point that cannot be carried over to the constitution as it gets most things right most of the time.

From my perspective, at base, humans can almost always get their morals to match those of the people around them.
When laws and belief structures are put in place, that sort of connection fluctuates and divides.

A majority would never think it would be okay to marry off a nine year old girl, if they weren't persuaded or forced to.
A majority would never think a human sacrifice would save them. if they weren't persuaded or forced to.

Laws can be based off of the self interests of the people making them.
If you have a lot of money and want a tax loophole, you go to the greedy lawmaker.
This happens to this very day, you can find tax loopholes all over the place in various laws.

I can go on for quite a bit, but I think it best to leave it here

wizanda · Dec 2, 2016

Sunstone said:
I'm curious what people think Islam gets right?

Since the Quran states all prophets were Muslims, therefore Islam isn't about following the Quran or the five pillars, it is about submission to (peace) Oneness of One ultimate God.

The idea of creating one ultimate creator, where all books globally are one, and should be read as a whole without making distinction between the messages, is a conduit for peace....

Yet modern day Muslims have nothing to do with what the Quran instructs; it is to be used as a 'criterion' (a way in which to judge another source by), not on its own.

The Quran's call to being a righteous person are good; unfortunately religions often cause hypocrisy to what they state, as for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Some of the ideas put forth by the Quran are great, pray in the morning as you wake, pray at night, be charitable; yet it didn't specify you have to do it dogmatically like the same religious hypocrisy Yeshua challenged.

So Islam as a concept was great; dogmatic ritualistic legalistic religious people claiming to be Muslims are not.

Papoon · Dec 2, 2016

For those who accept Sufism as Islam...

What it gets right is that spiritual truth is directly experienced, not merely believed or obeyed... both of which are copouts lacking real courage or wisdom.

Smart_Guy · Dec 2, 2016

Deathbydefault said:
OK, let me start over and take this in parts, just to make sure I'm understanding you.
I said:

Going from that, I get a response from you, which I will re-answer in parts.

Yes, I fully intended that sort of consistency.

People are what need to get it right, not systems and laws, so that statement is valid.
No it is not. Not unless they were more detrimental than beneficial.

This ties into my previous post, which I may not have been entirely clear on, sorry.

From my perspective, at base, humans can almost always get their morals to match those of the people around them.
When laws and belief structures are put in place, that sort of connection fluctuates and divides.

A majority would never think it would be okay to marry off a nine year old girl, if they weren't persuaded or forced to.
A majority would never think a human sacrifice would save them. if they weren't persuaded or forced to.

Laws can be based off of the self interests of the people making them.
If you have a lot of money and want a tax loophole, you go to the greedy lawmaker.
This happens to this very day, you can find tax loopholes all over the place in various laws.

I can go on for quite a bit, but I think it best to leave it here

Hey, you did a good job responding to my queries in the light of your views and understanding. It would be rude of me to ask more, specially that you wish to stop here. I appreciate that.

Ben Avraham · Dec 2, 2016

Limo said:
Strange .... Don't you know that there are a lot of agreement between Islam and Judaism from the top Almighty, creation down to the Law level?

Allah said in Quran "Have you not seen those who were given a portion of the Scripture? They believe in Jibt and Taghut and say to the disbelievers that they are better guided as regards the way than the believers (Muslims)"

So, what's right about Islam?

Ben Avraham · Dec 2, 2016

Limo said:
Strange .... Don't you know that there are a lot of agreement between Islam and Judaism from the top Almighty, creation down to the Law level?

Allah said in Quran "Have you not seen those who were given a portion of the Scripture? They believe in Jibt and Taghut and say to the disbelievers that they are better guided as regards the way than the believers (Muslims)"

Sorry but, I still don't know what's right with Islam.

Papoon · Dec 2, 2016

On the general subject of 'right'...

You know you're all right
When there's nothing left

Limo · Dec 2, 2016

Ben Avraham said:
So, what's right about Islam?

Review the above comments by non-Muslims

Father Heathen · Dec 2, 2016

Deidre said:
Their prayer life rocks. Seriously. Definitely what I miss about Islam, from when I explored it.

Couldn't you incorporate that into your christian practice (aside from the facing toward Mecca aspect, of course)?

Kalidas · Dec 2, 2016

So this one may sound weird but I find a lot of respect in Muhammad's rules for war. Now I have not read the Quran so all of what I am about to say comes from my college world religions course so PLEASE correct me if I am wrong. But from what I understand Muhammad had certain rules of engagement where holy cites and other building should not be destroyed, farm lands are to be left untouched, you do not attack women and children (at the time innocent civilians basically),also do not torture captured soldiers. War sucks and I wish it didn't exist but it does, and it is nice to see a prophet look at this terrible necessity and say "This is terrible, but ultimately needed. BUT we can still do it in a civilized way, and not act like animals." I kind of like that.

viole · Dec 2, 2016

Sunstone said:
Serious question. I see so many threads critical of Islam. I'm curious what people think Islam gets right?

Islam makes you think. Really hard.

Makes you think of what could possibly be positive about it, which could not be achieved without Islam.

The same for Christianity and the rest, of course, I am quite ecumenic about that.

Ciao

- viole

What is Right With Islam?

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