Aiviu
Active Member
do you really have to stumble over a grave? You are the same of those who you trying to blame.
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It seems to me that some Christians on here do not understand Atheists
- Thread starter JustWondering
- Start date
do you really have to stumble over a grave? You are the same of those who you trying to blame.
Mystic-als
Active Member
I'm not here to argue/debate the point of this post.
There are some things that standout for me that I would like to address.
SomeRandom, nice wording "detrimental or beneficial". It's all too easy to use the words like "Good or Bad".
JustWondering "However, religion is part of many people's worldview. Yet, many theists never truly reflect upon or study their religion. Most people are just sheeple willing to go with the flow. I would like for the masses to wake up and actually question the things the authority figures in their lives tell them and think for themselves. Rational thought will eradicate superstitious belief systems eventually."
100% Spot on. The only challenge is that as much as we would like to see ourselves as Rational Beings, we simply are not. If we were, things like Love, Hate, Compassion, Depression, Pride, Humility, Faith, Fear etc. would not exist. Even experiential things like being "moved to tears" by a beautiful piece of music would not be possible. So the last part of that excerpt is more hopeful than probable. Certainly possible though. We are genetically "programmed" to look for answers outside of ourselves. To look for meaning. Superstition / Religion is as a result of this.
But back to the point. The vast majority of self-proclaimed Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Buddhists etc etc etc have very little knowledge of their proclaimed religion. This is a huge problem. Because it is mostly these people that become dogmatic and ,to borrow a phrase, bible-punchers.
I think it was Paul (the one who wrote some of the New Testament) that said "Work out your own salvation".
We are so preoccupied with Converting others to our way of thinking or belief that we don't ever truly evaluate our beliefs and judge whether they are "detrimental or beneficial". So busy looking outside of ourselves that we ignore inside.
Why do you even care if people believe what you believe?
Does it change who you are?
Do you need validation from others to continue believing?
If it will change who you are and you do need validation for your belief then i'm afraid you are a "sheeple".
There are some things that standout for me that I would like to address.
SomeRandom, nice wording "detrimental or beneficial". It's all too easy to use the words like "Good or Bad".
JustWondering "However, religion is part of many people's worldview. Yet, many theists never truly reflect upon or study their religion. Most people are just sheeple willing to go with the flow. I would like for the masses to wake up and actually question the things the authority figures in their lives tell them and think for themselves. Rational thought will eradicate superstitious belief systems eventually."
100% Spot on. The only challenge is that as much as we would like to see ourselves as Rational Beings, we simply are not. If we were, things like Love, Hate, Compassion, Depression, Pride, Humility, Faith, Fear etc. would not exist. Even experiential things like being "moved to tears" by a beautiful piece of music would not be possible. So the last part of that excerpt is more hopeful than probable. Certainly possible though. We are genetically "programmed" to look for answers outside of ourselves. To look for meaning. Superstition / Religion is as a result of this.
But back to the point. The vast majority of self-proclaimed Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Buddhists etc etc etc have very little knowledge of their proclaimed religion. This is a huge problem. Because it is mostly these people that become dogmatic and ,to borrow a phrase, bible-punchers.
I think it was Paul (the one who wrote some of the New Testament) that said "Work out your own salvation".
We are so preoccupied with Converting others to our way of thinking or belief that we don't ever truly evaluate our beliefs and judge whether they are "detrimental or beneficial". So busy looking outside of ourselves that we ignore inside.
Why do you even care if people believe what you believe?
Does it change who you are?
Do you need validation from others to continue believing?
If it will change who you are and you do need validation for your belief then i'm afraid you are a "sheeple".
Sultan Of Swing
Well-Known Member
Hinduism is not rooted in history as Christianity is.
From 1 Corinthians 15, a creed which in the majority view would date it within 5 years of Jesus' death:
"Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed."
Mystic-als
Active Member
How is it that you are trying to use the bible to prove a christian view.
Hinduism predates Christianity. Talk about being rooted in history. I would say that Hinduism's roots are substantially deeper than Christianity's. Having said this, it doesn't mean Hinduism is more or less valid than Christianity or Vise Versa.
If I read a letter (which Corinthians is) saying that it is okay to abuse children.
Then I get tried in a court of law for abusing children.
Can I use the letter as a defence? As a justification for my actions?
Let me tell you the judgment. Go straight to jail, do not pass begin, do not collect 50bucks.
Hinduism predates Christianity. Talk about being rooted in history. I would say that Hinduism's roots are substantially deeper than Christianity's. Having said this, it doesn't mean Hinduism is more or less valid than Christianity or Vise Versa.
If I read a letter (which Corinthians is) saying that it is okay to abuse children.
Then I get tried in a court of law for abusing children.
Can I use the letter as a defence? As a justification for my actions?
Let me tell you the judgment. Go straight to jail, do not pass begin, do not collect 50bucks.
Umm not to start anything but...Just because there's no central founder for Hinduism doesn't mean there's no real history tied to it. There's like 6000 years of culture and God only know how many key influential philosophers contributing to the overall end product. Not to mention numerous historical events.
It's as much philosophy as it is a religion. Maybe moreso.
Not saying anything about validity or nothing but you know, just saying.
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Jackrabbti
Member
Worm food vs. eternal reward? Easy choice. I understand Atheists, they say the chance of eternal reward is practically zero. I have two points to answer that 1) Regardless of chance, life is better with God. 2) You aren't qualified to say the odds are practically zero (arrogance isn't a qualification).
Atheists do have some good arguments. But, those arguments aren't why they're atheists. Those arguments are just window dressing. They're Atheists for the same reason many people are Christian, they've been taught to be that way. How many Atheists were there 200 years ago in America? 200 years ago, culture wasn't teaching Atheism. Today, even most Christians are practically Atheists.
Altfish
Veteran Member
Alternative, like me, they are people who have walked away from Christ and other religions.
And other little lost lambs....
Altfish
Veteran Member
When did you realize you were lost in London?
Altfish
Veteran Member
Don't you think atheists would prefer something other than worm food? I would like there to be gold in the bottom of my garden but there isn't.
Atheism is growing in the US and elsewhere because it is becoming more accepted and science is giving us more and more answers therefore the god of the gaps has less places to hide. Is atheism taught? I bet it isn't taught 1/10th as much as Christianity. BUT if it is being taught, that is good, give people choice, let them decide themselves instead o being given the 'truth'.
Altfish
Veteran Member
When I went round a corner and the tube station wasn't there
A lost lamb because you cannot find your ride home.
Jackrabbti
Member
You're funny. Kids go to school five days a week all the while their brains are soft, taught implicitly every day that the world exists apart from God, if not taught Atheism more forcefully. These kids come home and turn on the TV and watch hours of TV learning implicitly that God has no relevance, if not explicitly told belief in God is ignorant.
Only a minority of kids go to church, and that's just a couple of hours a week, and most churches have become something between deistic motivational meetings and concerts, Christian only superficially. A pew study asked asked a basic question about the wine in Catholic Communion. There were two choices, and Hispanic Catholics got the question right 50% of the time. A retarded monkey that never heard of Catholicism would have done no worse. As I noted previously, most Christians are practically Atheists.
You're a victim of society, but your arrogance won't allow you to admit that to yourself.
You see science filling the gaps, leaving less room for God and exposing the ignorance of those who attributed natural things to God. If science accounts for the atheism today vs. the past, how do you know science won't point to God in the future? You already admitted that science has already once changed our views on God. (Actually, science doesn't point away from God, it just operates with naturalistic presumption.) We're very ignorant compared to what we'll be in the distant future. How do you know science won't once again change our views on God? A big flaw in your reasoning is that for Christianity to be true, acts attributed to various gods should be refuted by science. Your argument basically is that because science has shown Zeus doesn't throw lightning bolts, that Christianity is false. But, Christianity would only be shown false if Zeus really was throwing lighting bolts. Also, about those gaps being filled in, I see it as evidence of a well designed universe that doesn't need outside maintenance. If you had a car that never broke down, you wouldn't attribute its non-need of repair to it not being intelligently designed, yet that's what you're doing with the universe.
The point is, what you think is reasoning leading you to Atheism is just you interpreting what you see in the context of Atheism.
DragonHawk1959
Member
Many Christians are seeking to legislate their idea of Christianity. And most have only the vaguest idea of what the Bible does or does not say. And even less idea of what it said before King James and his browbeaten theologians "translated" it.The reverse is also true. Many atheists do not understand Christians, and many will go out of their way to belittle them, try and prove that their religion is false, and verbally assault anyone that identifies as a Christian.
DragonHawk1959
Member
Many Christians are seeking to legislate their idea of Christianity. And most have only the vaguest idea of what the Bible does or does not say. And even less idea of what it said before King James and his browbeaten theologians "translated" it.The reverse is also true. Many atheists do not understand Christians, and many will go out of their way to belittle them, try and prove that their religion is false, and verbally assault anyone that identifies as a Christian.
Who determines what is false?
In many cases what they believe is contrary to their own holy book. Or at least contrary to what it said in the original languages.
Prestor John
Well-Known Member
It is sad, but true. I feel that the majority of "Christians" would label any atheists this way.
I believe that there is "some" truth to those claims, but I feel that what you mentioned, and what "Christians" generally believe concerning most atheists is over exaggerated.
Prestor John
Well-Known Member
What do you mean by this?
Are you claiming that certain "Christians" are trying to impose a State religion or that they try to lobby in support of their ideals?
Sultan Of Swing
Well-Known Member
I'm talking about the letter as proof of the very early belief in Jesus' resurrection from within 5 years of His death, being believed by those closest to Him who were then willing to go and die for the Gospel, and then by Paul who was a persecutor of the Church and Jesus appeared to Him. To those at the time who received the letter, Paul says most of the 500 witnesses were still alive, and is in a way challenging those people to go ask them if they really want to know. He was clearly very confident in what had happened, both in Jesus appearing to Him and Jesus' closest Apostles believing he had risen and willing to die for it.